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Walt Disney World Epcot Discussion Thread

P. 115: Ratatouille Opening Oct. 1 - Confirmed!

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Is that what the other side is saying? Have they been banning you or others for your differing opinions?

No of course we don't ban people for having a different opinion. Do we ban people for being rude obnoxious and telling us how to run our forums? Yep. You bet. And he's gone for his horrible behavior.

 

EDIT: Just found this crap on Twitter and this is EXACTLY why I refuse to put up with fucking horrible people...

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Listen here you self-entitled obnoxious Millennial. The world does not revolve around you. You cannot go around and say or do whatever the f*ck you want to and not suffer any repercussions from it. Let me make it clear that I only gave this guy a one-week ban for rude and horrible behavior he displayed in previous posts. I told him to "grow a pair" because, let's be honest, he needs to. He then took it to Twitter because, of course he's a horrible Millennial that doesn't think he should be responsible for his own rude actions and therefore attempts to make us look like the "bad guys" in this scenario. We aren't.

 

His ban is now permanent because he refused to take any responsibility for his actions. Had he instead emailed me privately and said "Hey Robb, sorry for the outburst, it was not appropriate" he would be right back on these forums posting again. But since Millennials can never admit to be "wrong" about something, he went another route. And now he's gone. Good riddance!

 

EDIT #2: Please note that we did not ban anyone for having a "different opinion" about the topic being discussed. We only banned the asshole who got up on his soapbox and tried to tell us how to run our forum.

Edited by robbalvey
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Just because you don’t think it is good, it doesn’t mean the rest of the visiting majority agrees with your opinion. But I guess that’s the beauty of numbers... Everyone is entitled to their own opini

EPCOT is about one thing: making money for Disney. Does Guardians make money? *Glances at box office returns* Why, yes. Yes it does. Case closed.

I think “terrible” is a matter of perspective. Also understand that the person you’re debating this with has a long-proven admiration of Epcot in its classic form... Just look up Epcot’s 25th annivers

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PLEASE DON'T ANYONE WASTE THEIR TIME READING THIS CRAP!

 

^^ Everything you just said is purely subjective per your point of view. None of your comments actually point to any real issue with this service being offered at all and does not impact anyone in the slightest.

 

I mean, sure, completely objectively speaking and stripping away all aesthetics, they are some busses. But doing that also means Tower of Terror is strictly worse than, say, Detonator at Worlds of Fun (a space shot that's taller than the Tower of Terror). That can't be right (and hold that thought in mind every time I talk about storytelling in this post).

 

"Disney World design put a lot of thought into the things guests see in what order when they enter the park, and buses paradoxically short circuit that" isn't really subjective. Whether that negative outweighs the positives in guests being able to skip security checks (not to mention whatever boon extra cash brings) is subjective...but I'm not sure I come down firmly on one side or the other.

 

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding it, the express shuttle is strictly park-to-park. You're still going to have to use a regular bus from the hotels and go through security and the front gate at some point. Unless you're going from say Epcot to MK prior to MK's opening, there's still a good chance you go through the main gate and see the opening act.

 

That's what i meant by "some segment of the population." The effect is definitely small in quantity, but I think it's relatively large in magnitude. You only get one chance to make a first impression, after all.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, but I know nothing about this Disney nerd subculture so can someone please explain to me what the hell you're talking about? "Opening act"? Is that what you call a security line? Are Disney people that incredibly brainwashed that they think taking a tram to a slow A$$ boat or monorail to a security line, going through a metal detector and walking under some train tracks onto Main Street is a magical "opening act"? What does that even mean? If you think that's cool then you really need to go to Six Flags Great Adventure. That "opening act" can easily drag on for an hour during Fright Fest. It's magical.

 

If you give me some overly emotional line about the feeling of magic that you get when you look down Main Street and see the castle for the first time while the Disney Kool Aid courses through your veins I really may die laughing.

 

Edit: Plus, if you don't want the "opening act" spoiled then don't take the bus. Nobody is forcing you to take the bus.

 

I tend to think of everything after the turnstile as part of the experience of that individual park (you can quibble as to whether the ride from the TTC to the gate is part of it - but consider that the monorail is absolutely iconic to the parks. Dismissing it as "just" a form of transport is probably missing the point a little.)

 

It's not (just) about emotion. It's about storytelling, which is more or less at the core of a ton of WDW experiences. Like, let's walk through it. The plaque at main street station reads, "Here you leave today and enter a world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy." And you pass that sign, and you walk down a replica of yesterday's main street, with a carefully-constructed-to-loom-over-you bit of fantasy architecture at the end. You get there, look around the hub, and (guests aside, of course) there aren't indicia of the real world - you're surrounded by the gates into the various lands. That's the opening statement. That's the story. And while a random person might not pick it as their favorite moment (leading them to save 20 minutes by going in by Tomorrowland), that walk is a fundamental portion of the park.

 

And, by the way, it is about emotion too! Last time I saw Wishes, I saw a woman literally bawling at the finale, and there were plenty of people misty eyed. Look at how many memes there are of people being sad at Mufasa's death! These are parts of our cultural psyche, and ignoring it means ignoring what makes Disney a park really worth seeing (stripped of context, there are very few very high quality rides there). You might not get Disney, and that's perfectly okay! It is some magical bullshit! But for people who are interested in an experience and not just a thrill, there's something special there.

 

Aside from people on Facebook I don't think anyone's really being berated. I also didn't mean to berate anyone by asking what an "Opening Act" was either but you have to understand that if you're not a Disney person and you're not familiar with the term then it does seem completely insane. It's practically dripping with arrogance and the idea that this is something unique and special to Disney when practically every theme park in the world has a front gate and main midway and nobody cares if they enter through a different gate. Nobody says "Oh no, don't enter through the resort gate and go to Maverick because then you'll miss the Gatekeeper flyover and the entire opening act will be ruined". Only a Disney person would say something like that so it's really foreign to a lot of people.

 

The problem though isn't that people believe this (as ridiculous as I think it is), but that they're using it to complain about an optional service that nobody is forcing them to use and will have no negative impact on them whatsoever or their "opening act". These are people that are bitching because they enjoy hearing themselves talk and I don't feel bad for making fun of them.

 

Parks are a lot like movies, where more things than you think are considered choices. This is more true for Disney than some parks, as WDW was literally built up from the swamplands (think of SF Fiesta Texas or SFSTL, which didn't have that completely blank to deal with.) So it's frequently worth asking "wait, why is this here?" Why is Main Street before the Castle? Why is the rail station in front of main street? Because of storytelling.

 

Point being, Cedar Point does have an opening statement! It's just not nearly as emotionally resonant because (to my understanding) that isn't the focus of Cedar Point. Cedar Point is about the thrills, plain and simple. There's relatively little focused theming, and they pour tons of money into making things bigger and taller and faster. To inspire the right frame of mind for Disney World, you remove guests from reality through the idealized past and toward outright fantasy. To invoke the right frame of mind for Cedar Point, you have a flyby of a really bitchin coaster. The first impression people get of Cedar Point is the roar of a B&M and the scream of happy guests. There's nothing more iconic than those when it comes to roller coasters! And I think the front gate is way, way stronger with Gatekeeper there. Walking up to the front gate and seeing a train fly by is supposed to put you in the mood to scream like you're in a TPR POV video. But because Cedar Point isn't about storytelling (and because "roar of coaster + screams" can be heard virtually everywhere in the park), missing that flyby is a relatively small cost.

 

And, I want to be clear here, to the people saying, "this won't affect you if you don't pay for it." First, yeah, it'll probably remove buses from circulation. Second, what I'm saying with all these effortposts about theming is that going in the back is going to affect people negatively in ways that are difficult to get at with simple polls. It removes one of the (smaller) things that makes Disney a memorable theme park, rather than an amusement park that happens to have some good intellectual property.

 

EDITED to make my last bits about Cedar Point a little more cogent.

 

tl;dr

 

If you don't want to take the busses, don't purchase the upgrade.

Edited by robbalvey
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^ And if you accidentily did end up reading this wall of garbage text, this right here explains my thoughts on it perfectly:

The problem though isn't that people believe this (as ridiculous as I think it is), but that they're using it to complain about an optional service that nobody is forcing them to use and will have no negative impact on them whatsoever or their "opening act". These are people that are bitching because they enjoy hearing themselves talk and I don't feel bad for making fun of them.
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Yeah, "opening act" isn't what I thought it was. I like the impact of walking down Main Street that first time as much as anyone. So if I want to do that, I won't use the express bus through the back area. A lot of other people will do the same thing. Because....it's optional. Amirite?

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Yeah, "opening act" isn't what I thought it was. I like the impact of walking down Main Street that first time as much as anyone. So if I want to do that, I won't use the express bus through the back area. A lot of other people will do the same thing. Because....it's optional. Amirite?

Yep, that's the whole point that like everyone but a few people are stressing. This whole thing seriously does not impact ANYONE in any way at all. But there are a handful of people (even more crazies on FB and other socials) who are trying to convince people otherwise for reasons I have no idea.

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Yeah, "opening act" isn't what I thought it was. I like the impact of walking down Main Street that first time as much as anyone. So if I want to do that, I won't use the express bus through the back area. A lot of other people will do the same thing. Because....it's optional. Amirite?

Yep, that's the whole point that like everyone but a few people are stressing. This whole thing seriously does not impact ANYONE in any way at all. But there are a handful of people (even more crazies on FB and other socials) who are trying to convince people otherwise for reasons I have no idea.

 

I think we established why. They're crazy. They literally exhibit all the hallmarks of severe mental illness. That's why.

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Yeah, "opening act" isn't what I thought it was. I like the impact of walking down Main Street that first time as much as anyone. So if I want to do that, I won't use the express bus through the back area. A lot of other people will do the same thing. Because....it's optional. Amirite?

Yep, that's the whole point that like everyone but a few people are stressing. This whole thing seriously does not impact ANYONE in any way at all. But there are a handful of people (even more crazies on FB and other socials) who are trying to convince people otherwise for reasons I have no idea.

 

I think we established why. They're crazy. They literally exhibit all the hallmarks of severe mental illness. That's why.

 

Yep. I mean, when in someone's brain that a "Woman crying during Wishes" = "THE BUS IS PURE EVIL!!!!" yes, they are legit crazy

Edited by robbalvey
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Yeah, "opening act" isn't what I thought it was. I like the impact of walking down Main Street that first time as much as anyone. So if I want to do that, I won't use the express bus through the back area. A lot of other people will do the same thing. Because....it's optional. Amirite?

Yep, that's the whole point that like everyone but a few people are stressing. This whole thing seriously does not impact ANYONE in any way at all. But there are a handful of people (even more crazies on FB and other socials) who are trying to convince people otherwise for reasons I have no idea.

 

I think it's an odd thing to complain about for another reason: For decades, if you stayed at the Disneyland Hotel, you could take the monorail to Tomorrowland and skip the main entrance entirely. Does anyone complain about that?

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Yeah, "opening act" isn't what I thought it was. I like the impact of walking down Main Street that first time as much as anyone. So if I want to do that, I won't use the express bus through the back area. A lot of other people will do the same thing. Because....it's optional. Amirite?

Yep, that's the whole point that like everyone but a few people are stressing. This whole thing seriously does not impact ANYONE in any way at all. But there are a handful of people (even more crazies on FB and other socials) who are trying to convince people otherwise for reasons I have no idea.

 

I think it's an odd thing to complain about for another reason: For decades, if you stayed at the Disneyland Hotel, you could take the monorail to Tomorrowland and skip the main entrance entirely. Does anyone complain about that?

 

It also wasn't a hotel owned/operated by Disney, but by a third party. But you know what? PIXIEDUST MAGIC WALT DISNEE. So it was alright.

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Yeah, "opening act" isn't what I thought it was. I like the impact of walking down Main Street that first time as much as anyone. So if I want to do that, I won't use the express bus through the back area. A lot of other people will do the same thing. Because....it's optional. Amirite?

Yep, that's the whole point that like everyone but a few people are stressing. This whole thing seriously does not impact ANYONE in any way at all. But there are a handful of people (even more crazies on FB and other socials) who are trying to convince people otherwise for reasons I have no idea.

 

I think it's an odd thing to complain about for another reason: For decades, if you stayed at the Disneyland Hotel, you could take the monorail to Tomorrowland and skip the main entrance entirely. Does anyone complain about that?

Or what if you're staying at Boardwalk and you use the International Gateway to enter Epcot.

"Wait, there's a ball here? What ball???"

 

Thousands of people use that entrance every day. And you know how many people complain? Zero.

Edited by robbalvey
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So, do we actually know that Disney is putting more buses into circulation, or is the benefit of "less people using the regular system" speculative? It isn't hard to imagine the world where the number of people taking express busses doesn't relieve the stress of taking buses out of general pool.

 

I think the best argument against these things is that they remove the opening act of each park. It's a small (but I think significant) thing for a repeat visitor, but there's going to be some segment of the population whose first walk into one of the parks will be via an express bus. I think MK and AK especially have near perfect opening acts, and giving the opportunity to skip those is absolutely a cost. I'm not at all sure that cost outweighs the benefits, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend anyone with complaints is a lunatic.

 

EDIT on a bit of reflection: I also think this is different from the utilidoor tour. It's not just about breaking the "fourth wall" - it's about doing so for people who aren't specifically looking for that. If you sign up for the Keys to the Kingdom tour, you know exactly what you're getting. You are opting in to see how the sausage is made. If you take an express bus, the primary motivation is convenience; screwing with the show is a side effect that is some sort of negative effect on the experience. Again, I think net benefit wise these aren't RUINING DISNEY OMG but these arguments are valid, I think.

 

Granted the source is WikiPedia, but as of 2014 they had 350 busses with 50 more on order---I think they can handle the express buses and regular shuttle services....

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I hadn't had a chance to comment on the new bus service yet that was being offered and I have to agree with what I'm seeing that this is a positive service.

 

It seems like the people that are complaining are majority locals that are mad because they feel that they deserve the privelage. Services like this are a fantastic way for people that are visiting for their annual trip, or their first trip, or their trip they get once every 5 years. People that are fortunate enough to visit all the time don't necessarily NEED services like this... but in my opinion... if they want to utilize them... then shut up and do it lol. That's the bottom line.

 

But this is an awesome option and I will absolutely be purchasing this next time. What a great way to save time and avoid additional lines

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I'm a person who doesn't post much here, but I read a lot. I can't believe the behavior of people these days. They clearly can't see the difference between having a different opinion with a discussion about it, and the reprehensible, rude behavior they do have. I'm not sure how you deal with it Robb, but kudos to you taking on that challenge the way you do!

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Is that what the other side is saying? Have they been banning you or others for your differing opinions?

No of course we don't ban people for having a different opinion. Do we ban people for being rude obnoxious and telling us how to run our forums? Yep. You bet. And he's gone for his horrible behavior.

 

 

Believe it or not, some of us understand that there's a difference between being annoying and rude and discussing a difference of opinion. Maybe the guy who quoted me will one day understand this. I voice my opinion here often, I differ with Robb or some other staff on occasion- but I'm not a whiny little dick about it when someone disagrees.

 

As far as the fear of losing transport buses- if Disney wants to ruin your day (life?) by taking buses away, they will, with or without the program. Maybe they will get new buses, maybe they wont. But the people being transported with the new service are being taken off the peasant bus system, making the line shorter for us. Right?

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I'm sorry, I feel like I'm having flashbacks to a week ago when the same people were crying about the cabanas that also have zero negative impact on people that don't want to use them which means there's no reason to complain.

 

I can't wait to see what they're bitching about next week...

 

With regards to the cabanas, the negative impact here is the visual intrusion. I'm kinda surprised that's not understood. But that's really the difference between, e.g., something like Six Flags and Disney. Imagine watching a movie like Star Wars and you suddenly see a Toyota Minivan drive through a scene. It draws you outside of any realm you were supposed to be drawn inside and disrupts the narrative.

 

Sk

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With regards to the cabanas, the negative impact here is the visual intrusion.

Stop right there. You don't even know what you're talking about so you really need to stop talking. If you honestly believe the tent-like temporary cabanas are the final product then you're a huge huge moron. They are a test. If they do well, permanent structures will be built. If they don't do well, they go away forever. Now that you're educated on this you can stop posting factually incorrect information about them. Thank you.

Edited by robbalvey
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PLEASE DON'T ANYONE WASTE THEIR TIME READING THIS CRAP!

 

tl;dr

 

If you don't want to take the busses, don't purchase the upgrade.

 

lol k

 

Yep. I mean, when in someone's brain that a "Woman crying during Wishes" = "THE BUS IS PURE EVIL!!!!" yes, they are legit crazy

 

Yeah, that's what I said. I definitely haven't been saying "I'm more or less neutral on them but I think they raise an interesting issue with the experience"

 

Again, I think net benefit wise these aren't RUINING DISNEY OMG but these arguments are valid, I think.

 

Sorry for talking about the parks in a way deeper than "ride fun" or "crowds big."

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Talking about parks and trying to think about them is fine. Using a placard next to no one actually sees as justification for the kind of "thematic continuity errors" that get everyone else in the industry dragged? Bloviating about "the opening act" as though Disneyland was intended as a narrative experience by the Almighty Walt and not filled with stuff like the Fritos Kid, Aluminum Hall of Fame, and Aunt Jemima's Kitchen at opening? It basically comes across as sounding cult-like because it is.

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It's almost as if Walt Disney ran the park as if it was a business and sold space in his park whether it made sense or not.

 

Because when I think of Disneyland I totally think of the Dutch Boy Paint Gallery and Monsanto Hall of Chemistry!

 

Also, Dorrito's were invented at Disneyland at a restaurant ran by the Frito company.

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It's almost as if Walt Disney ran the park as if it was a business and sold space in his park whether it made sense or not.

 

Because when I think of Disneyland I totally think of the Dutch Boy Paint Gallery and Monsanto Hall of Chemistry!

 

Listen, putting a Swiss mountain with a Nepalese cryptid inside it between a circus and the ocean makes total sense. and if you don't think so, you need to read the 15"x12" plaque about fantasy when you come in. It was all part of the important third act, which comes before the crescendo of Rocket To The Moon.

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