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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 2017: Top Thrill Dragster RETIRED!?!?!?

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You need to understand the theoretical hourly capacity means almost nothing and can essentially be ignored. These are manufacturer estimates, not what the ride should always be doing if it has decent operations. It's stupid to compare actual capacity to theoretical capacity between different coasters because the operation of the coasters is inherently different. Look at end-of-year numbers as well as downtime to really see what coasters do the best numbers, nor in comparison to theoretical capacity that means nothing in the real world.

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You need to understand the theoretical hourly capacity means almost nothing and can essentially be ignored. These are manufacturer estimates, not what the ride should always be doing if it has decent operations. It's stupid to compare actual capacity to theoretical capacity between different coasters because the operation of the coasters is inherently different. Look at end-of-year numbers as well as downtime to really see what coasters do the best numbers, nor in comparison to theoretical capacity that means nothing in the real world.

 

The hard number data also cements the point that Maverick is at the low end of capacity for major CP coasters.

This is from the Cedar Point Blog in February 2015 discussing 2014 ridership numbers:

 

We're pretty proud of our capacity here at the park. It means more people get to enjoy our rides, and your time spent in line is not as long. These numbers represent individual riders who have been on each particular ride.

 

First, let's look at the top 10 coasters:

 

1 GateKeeper 1,898,204

2 Millennium Force 1,721,918

3 Raptor 1,414,447

4 Magnum XL-200 1,355,861

5 Gemini 1,298,304

6 Maverick 1,153,896

7 Iron Dragon 1,092,242

8 Top Thrill Dragster 1,077,885

9 Mantis 925,667

10 Wicked Twister 794,264

 

Of note, GateKeeper is still the king. That's a LOT of people in one season.

 

Also, expect that Mantis number to climb with Rougarou this year. Capacity and throughput should increase when we debut the new ride on May 9.

 

Source: https://www.cedarpoint.com/blog-article/online-fun/2014-By-The-Numbers

 

These numbers are not the perfect estimate of a coaster's capacity because they are confounded with a coaster's popularity. For instance, Iron Dragon has pretty high capacity with 3 train operation, but there are lots of time it does not run to full capacity because the ridership can't support it. Same with Magnum and Gemini, there are times in the morning and the evening when Magnum has the back 2 trains entirely closed off because ridership doesn't support full capacity operations, and Gemini does the same or only runs one side. But when the lines get long, these coasters can spring into massive capacity, if they chose.

 

The Millennium Force vs. Maverick numbers are the most telling ones and likely the best comparison, since they are probably the 2 most popular coasters in the park: Millennium Force achieved nearly 600,000 additional riders than Maverick in 2014. Now, some of that might be a downtime component (I suspect Maverick goes down more frequently), but a big chunk of it is simply that Maverick cannot reliably achieve the same capacity as Millennium Force, despite the theoretical maximums purportedly being similar (1,200 pph vs. 1,300 pph).

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^And that's exactly what I'm saying. The theoretical hourly capacity should not really be considered when comparing actual numbers. 1,200 is very hopeful for a coaster like Maverick, and I would imagine 1,300 is either realistic or potentially low-balling Milennium Force at peak times/efficiency.

These theoretical numbers mean nothing to me when everything is considered--look at Kingda Ka. It's theoretical capacity is 1,400 from Wikipedia (which I'm trusting to be correct for the sake of discussion), but with its poor operation (two checking restraints, no unload station, three unused load stations) and the limited operations due to Zumanajro, I'd be shocked if the ride does over say 800 pph consistently. From what I've heard (including Great Adventure employees), Kingda Ka hasn't ever done 1 million riders consistently, year after year.

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On a topic that isn't about capacity...

 

I've come to the conclusion that I'm very excited for a Dive Machine to come to Cedar Point. Sure, it isn't a RMC conversion of Mean Streak (yet) but I'm happy to be getting this. Griffon was a great ride and I'm sure this one is bound to be even better. It seems like B&M is getting more advanced with what they can do with Dive Machine layouts so I'm excited to see how this one turns out.

 

I know I shouldn't be complaining about the color scheme, but I just feel this one is so close to Rougarou. Maybe it won't be when it goes up. But if those track pieces at the plant are coming to CP, then it'll be interesting to see them go up and how similar to Rougarou it may or may not be.

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On a topic that isn't about capacity...

 

I've come to the conclusion that I'm very excited for a Dive Machine to come to Cedar Point. Sure, it isn't a RMC conversion of Mean Streak (yet) but I'm happy to be getting this. Griffon was a great ride and I'm sure this one is bound to be even better. It seems like B&M is getting more advanced with what they can do with Dive Machine layouts so I'm excited to see how this one turns out.

Glad to see someone other than myself excited for the Dive Machine coming to Cedar Point! Dive Machines are great rides! They are fun, super smooth, and very re-rideable! A great fit for Cedar Point! I agree that B&M is getting more advanced with what they can do with a Dive Machines layout, so I am really looking forward to what they have in store for Cedar Point!!

 

I know I shouldn't be complaining about the color scheme, but I just feel this one is so close to Rougarou. Maybe it won't be when it goes up. But if those track pieces at the plant are coming to CP, then it'll be interesting to see them go up and how similar to Rougarou it may or may not be.

I am hoping that once the ride starts going up the colors are going to look better than what we are expecting, and hopefully not blend in next to Rougarou.

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I know I shouldn't be complaining about the color scheme, but I just feel this one is so close to Rougarou. Maybe it won't be when it goes up. But if those track pieces at the plant are coming to CP, then it'll be interesting to see them go up and how similar to Rougarou it may or may not be.

 

For fun and out of sheer boredom, why not look at a color comparison, side by side to see the similarity of the colors...

 

Slide1.thumb.JPG.1c5784ab66ed16b6637603a027828cf3.JPG

Using the eyedropper tool - here are the different colors of each coaster based on the pictures shown

 

What catches my attention on the Valravn track is the silver stripe on the bottom of the spine. I feel like this can be a key distinguishing feature for it and it's neighbor to the north east.

 

Slide2.thumb.JPG.c2adeb34f65ba5a1a873aa7f731e1e9f.JPG

And here is a quick and lousy side by side of the colors on a black background

 

This was the boredom part I was talking about. But from this crappy cartoon failure, the supports and that silver stripe really do manage to differentiate both coasters from one another. Oh, and I'm sure the 8 across cars in rows of 3 may help as well

 

 

All in good fun here. I don't really care what the colors are... Personally I'm excited to see what the logo is going to be - because I'm a nerd by definition. I love that kind of thing... And the Stats of the coaster itself. Oh, and an announcement date would also be nice...

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raptor broke on the lift and had people stranded for about 2 hours

 

I find this very hard to believe. Usually if a ride breaks down, and it is down for more than 30 minutes... with riders stuck on the ride they will evac the riders off the trains. Also, Raptor... down for 2 hours??? Usually it's down for about 20-40 minutes... Not 2 hours.

 

So all in all it was a good day but man does maverick have a terrible capacity.

 

Seriously??? This may be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read. Maverick... with terrible capacity??? Ha. NO!! Just... NO. Maverick has a capacity of 1,200 riders per hour. That is not exactly LOW. For comparison Millennium Force has a capacity of 1,300 riders per hour, and people always rave about how MF has great capacity. 1,200 riders per hour is not "terrible." It may not be the 2,000 riders per hour that Magnum has... But it is by no means "terrible."

 

I'm so serious about the raptor breakdown I checked the times. The first time I saw it, it was around 3, and someone went up the straits then back down them, but they didn't evac the riders. By 6 the train was gone (I didn't stand to watch this was just me looking from time to time) and by 7 they were running empty trains.

 

Maverick had a hour and a half line without fastpass (probs around 2 or more hours) and the fp+ line was about an hour, neither of the lines were moving, and if they did move, they moved about 3 steps for every 5 mins.

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So what we have learned from this is that Maverick can not hit its capacity of 1,200 riders per hour, yet Millennium Force gets better than its 1,300 riders per hour because apparently all the ignorant guest ride Maverick, and all the smart guest ride Millennium Force. Got it.

 

Looks like you should be a Maverick rider!

 

Bruh

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You People waste too much time on Break Downs and hourly capacity, who cares. They are mechanical machines and don't run a consist line, who really cares. There is going to be problems that arise and they will deal with them as they can. A hourly capacity is set for a ride that runs with no problems, that usually don't happen every hour.

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I would imagine that if they don't absolutely have to evac Raptor, then they wont. Why? because it's an invert and more difficult to evacuate then most other coasters. First, there is no floor or even panels beneath the whole lift. A panel has to be slid on a track and lined up with the cars to create the surface. Plus it's kind of dicey moving people on an angle like that to the catwalk high in the air.

 

If that isn't enough trouble, everyone needs to have on shoes to avoid any injuries, so somebody needs to bring up all the loose shoes and distribute them to their owner.

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You People waste too much time on Break Downs and hourly capacity, who cares. They are mechanical machines and don't run a consist line, who really cares. There is going to be problems that arise and they will deal with them as they can. A hourly capacity is set for a ride that runs with no problems, that usually don't happen every hour.

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^So what do they do for those people who lost 3+ hours in the park? Say sorry as they get off..? Or do they have some sort of policy? I mean, I may be a small percentage who feels this way but I would be furious if I was stuck on a ride for such a long time and the park did nothing to make it up to me and my fellow riders. Maybe not something as extreme as fast passes for the rest of the day... Or bounce back tickets because some people won't be able to make it out to the park after that trip... Especially people from out of state. But something...

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^So what do they do for those people who lost 3+ hours in the park? Say sorry as they get off..? Or do they have some sort of policy? I mean, I may be a small percentage who feels this way but I would be furious if I was stuck on a ride for such a long time and the park did nothing to make it up to me and my fellow riders. Maybe not something as extreme as fast passes for the rest of the day... Or bounce back tickets because some people won't be able to make it out to the park after that trip... Especially people from out of state. But something...

 

I'm not sure how the park handles incidents like this. Maybe someone who visits the park more has insight of this. I know Disney/Universal give out exit passes but i'm not sure about CF.

 

From an operations/safety standpoint, their goal is to try and cycle the ride through rather than evacuate. Getting stuck on a lift hill won't receive too much publicity, but an injury will. Look at the guy who got his leg caught in Raptor's gate. From a mechanical standpoint, mechanics would rather use their time to fix the ride than to waste it setting up evac platforms.

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There is a limit of how long they will leave people waiting before evacuating. I've seen some coasters go as quick as 20 minutes before evacuating because they were sit-downs and easier.

 

Where as a coaster like MF or Raptor can be longer because of their unique circumstances. Anything longer than two hours would be ridiculous and by then maintenance would have to start setting up the platforms.

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^The color scheme would make much more sense for CW's Ziz

 

this is truth and apparently Wonderlands GM was caught saying he'd love to add a dive coaster to wonderland

 

Behemoth is orange with blue supports

 

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPxz5pKLtvFQ5cue4bCklFyBz8XiADPqbKrfLN_Ko95-dzLbYo

 

similar colours, so the dive coaster could go to anyone.

Edited by sal123
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^So what do they do for those people who lost 3+ hours in the park? Say sorry as they get off..? Or do they have some sort of policy?

 

I'm not sure how the park handles incidents like this. Maybe someone who visits the park more has insight of this. I know Disney/Universal give out exit passes but i'm not sure about CF.

 

Perhaps it's changed this season, but I was stuck on Raptor's MCBR for over one hour during HalloWeekends last year. The issue was explained as being related to a sensor along the brake run. My train of returning riders, along with the few people who remained waiting in the station, received a real exit pass (not Fast Lane merge point) for anything in the park, & Raptor closed for the night. I picked Millennium Force and showed my pass at the exit. I expected the operator to tell me where to sit, but after examining it closely he declared, "Ah, yes...okay...with that pass, you can ride anywhere," and I rode in the front. While my train was moving toward the load station, I could hear the operator say to another member of the crew something to the effect of, "Yeah, he had one of those passes...so-and-so signed it, it's fine."

 

I don't know if they have a policy to scale-up the "sorry!" perks after multiple hours, but that was my experience last year.

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^So what do they do for those people who lost 3+ hours in the park? Say sorry as they get off..? Or do they have some sort of policy? I mean, I may be a small percentage who feels this way but I would be furious if I was stuck on a ride for such a long time and the park did nothing to make it up to me and my fellow riders. Maybe not something as extreme as fast passes for the rest of the day... Or bounce back tickets because some people won't be able to make it out to the park after that trip... Especially people from out of state. But something...

 

Management will give out exit passes. Depending on the situation at management's discretion they will give 2+ exit passes (and maybe more) if it's a serious downtime situation. I can't speak for every ride in the park, but if you come up with an exit pass to Millennium Force we will let you sit in any seat including front seat.

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