Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[bluestreak]

I will start a search party for the boat when I go to the Winter Chill Out

#boatlivesmatter

[Password121]

I'm going to be honest... When was the last time that when someone said the new coaster would "make lines shorter for the other popular coasters" actually been true? It's been awhile since Gatekeeper opened, but Maverick. Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Raptor, etc still garner two hour queues on busy days. It's just not a very solid argument for the positives of a new coaster for people that don't like it (and don't want to be told to like it/accept it).

 

Im not saying I won't like and/or ride Valravn. I think I'm going to really enjoy and ride it pretty often... but it's not making other lines shorter. That's the whole purpose of it--increase attendance.

[FeelTheFORCE]

I'm going to be honest... When was the last time that when someone said the new coaster would "make lines shorter for the other popular coasters" actually been true? It's been awhile since Gatekeeper opened, but Maverick. Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Raptor, etc still garner two hour queues on busy days. It's just not a very solid argument for the positives of a new coaster for people that don't like it (and don't want to be told to like it/accept it).

 

Im not saying I won't like and/or ride Valravn. I think I'm going to really enjoy and ride it pretty often... but it's not making other lines shorter. That's the whole purpose of it--increase attendance.

 

I don't know how it affects the other lines, but personally I like the idea of only having to wait 45 mins or so when Gatekeeper's queue is full, being that it's such a high-capacity ride. I'm hoping Valravn will be similar. Walking past a full TTD or MF queue gives you that sinking feeling if you don't have FL+, because you know you're in it for the long haul if you wait.

[Password121]

^Oh absolutely. I love the high capacity of B&M's (and actually MF's is ridiculous too, the queue is just larger than Gatekeepers generally). Valravn will be almost as efficient as Gatekeeper and Raptor. I just don't think it'll make any noticeable difference in the queues of the other major rides. If it did, Raptor and Millennium would be station waits all the time considering how many new coasters have opened since '94 and '00.

[TB305]

I was reading the past couple pages to catch-up because I've been on a trip. I found one argument particularly amusing and LOL worthy (paraphrased):

 

"This is the seventh time you can go above 200 feet at CP, it is getting a bit redundant."

 

It's redundant in the same way as having multiple steel coasters is redundant, which is to say, its hardly redundant. I wonder if all that complaining wouldn't have been an issue if they had gone with a 199 foot Dive Machine.

[Rydel]

I tried to resist hopping on this train wreck but I caved and decided two throw in my two cents...

 

Valravn might not be the next roller coaster of CP fanboys' dreams but it will make a ton of guests happy. It's a new coaster type for Cedar Point and a vast roller coaster collection is what defines CP. Even if some fan boys don't like Valravn, it is an investment in CP which will hopefully be very profitable and justify a quick addition of the next roller coaster for the park.

 

For people that haven't been on a dive machine before, I think they owe it to themselves to give Valravn a chance. I had low expectations before riding SheiKra but I was pleasantly surprised. I thought Griffon would be the same deal but I found it to be even more fun. Dive machines aren't the most forceful coasters, but I found SheiKra and Griffon to be a lot of fun and I've been on each 50+ times. Having fun is what amusement parks are about right?

[Mossed]

I'm going to be honest... When was the last time that when someone said the new coaster would "make lines shorter for the other popular coasters" actually been true? It's been awhile since Gatekeeper opened, but Maverick. Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Raptor, etc still garner two hour queues on busy days. It's just not a very solid argument for the positives of a new coaster for people that don't like it (and don't want to be told to like it/accept it).

 

Im not saying I won't like and/or ride Valravn. I think I'm going to really enjoy and ride it pretty often... but it's not making other lines shorter. That's the whole purpose of it--increase attendance.

 

It's definitely true. You think lines are bad today with Fast Lane... My first visit in 04' I had to wait 2+ hours for MANTIS...

[Password121]

^I'm a little confused because you just proved my point (Mantis sucked and even after MF and Dragster it still had long waits) but first said you disagree. Unless you meant my point was true... then I digress.

[coasterbill]

but first said you disagree. Unless you meant my point was true... then I digress.

 

This level of confusion and feelings of "wtf!?!?!?!?!?!" just mean you've arrived at the Cedar Point thread. It's perfectly natural.

[Mossed]

^I'm a little confused because you just proved my point (Mantis sucked and even after MF and Dragster it still had long waits) but first said you disagree. Unless you meant my point was true... then I digress.

 

I'm just going to say you're wrong. In 2013, you wouldn't have had to wait outside the station for Mantis, except on the busiest days... let alone a 2 hour wait. When Valravn has an hour wait, that's a ton of people not in line for Maverick, Dragster, Millennium, GateKeeper, or whatever other roller coaster you want to ride. Unless you think the ride has drastically added to the number of people in the park. More options = more dispersed crowd.

[Password121]

^I'm a little confused because you just proved my point (Mantis sucked and even after MF and Dragster it still had long waits) but first said you disagree. Unless you meant my point was true... then I digress.

 

I'm just going to say you're wrong. In 2013, you wouldn't have had to wait outside the station for Mantis, except on the busiest days... let alone a 2 hour wait. When Valravn has an hour wait, that's a ton of people not in line for Maverick, Dragster, Millennium, GateKeeper, or whatever other roller coaster you want to ride. Unless you think the ride has drastically added to the number of people in the park. More options = more dispersed crowd.

Yes but this can be explained by the fact that Mantis sucked. And that can be proven because Cedar Point admitted it by redoing it to "increase ridership." Do you see Raptor with station waits in July? Absolutely not. Because Raptor is a good ride and will continue to be popular no matter how many new rides they build. That statistic Bill posted a few pages back about the attendance jump in '13 would also agree with me. Gatekeeper didn't increase the capacity of the park by 5%, but attendance jumped 5%.

 

I know we're beating this to death but it seems nowadays that what you do in this thread, so I'll say this anyways.

Valravn is realistically going to do 1000-1200/hour. Say the average coaster at Cedar Point (of the 15 excluding the kiddie coasters) does about 1200/hour (which is probably pretty close), that means that with zero attendance increase that the lines would shorten by about 80 people for every hour long Valravn's queue is. Including other rides, it's probably about 50 people. Which is about two and a half minutes (50/1200 x 60 = 2.5).

 

Yes, 2.5 minutes. That's how much time you'll save by waiting in other queues knowing that Valravn is constantly chewing away at people that would've been waiting ahead of you in your line. What a relief that is.

[DavidW]

Here is this weeks time lapse videos

 

Week 19 (1/11/16 - 1/17/16):

Original images for these videos are courtesy of CedarPoint.com

Edited January 21, 2016 by DavidW

[BeansproutMidget]

^ That is like a breath of fresh air. Thanks for always posting these!

[blakelemay23]

^I'm a little confused because you just proved my point (Mantis sucked and even after MF and Dragster it still had long waits) but first said you disagree. Unless you meant my point was true... then I digress.

 

I'm just going to say you're wrong. In 2013, you wouldn't have had to wait outside the station for Mantis, except on the busiest days... let alone a 2 hour wait. When Valravn has an hour wait, that's a ton of people not in line for Maverick, Dragster, Millennium, GateKeeper, or whatever other roller coaster you want to ride. Unless you think the ride has drastically added to the number of people in the park. More options = more dispersed crowd.

Dick Kinzel stated that new attractions had almost no effect on the lines. "People came to ride coasters" when the lines are long for the coasters and a new one comes in town, that means that even more people that want to ride coasters come to Sandusky to ride the new one so it essentially stays the same. The line wait changes we see vary by how far into the season we are. Some parts of the season are more popular for visitors, that is why i look at statistics before I plan a trip (What times of the season most people visit per year). Valravn is not going to shorten the lines on anything unless its the beggining of the day and people haven't gotten over to MF or Maverick. Well... Because "America's Roller Coast"

[DoinItForTheFame]

^ But don't forget... Valravn, is going to be "overrated," "boring," "forceless," "not worth riding," and "a waste of money." Do you really think it's going to bring that many people to the park??

[blakelemay23]

^ But don't forget... Valravn, is going to be "overrated," "boring," "forceless," "not worth riding," and "a waste of money." Do you really think it's going to bring that many people to the park??

 

Yes, enthusiasts that bitch about it looking boring will try it as well, and the GP is going to eat it alive.

[njcoasterguy34]

My only very minor complaint about the ride is that it doesn't have a splashdown like Griffon at BGW. I'm looking forward to riding it when I visit the park in May, though.

[CP Maverick]

Looking at the layout of the ride, I'm not sure where a splashdown would feel right. It needs to be near the end, but the extra length of track in the 2nd half will already eliminate most of the vehicle's momentum.

[DorneyKid14]

They have a lake about 50 yards away that they could use for a splash down

[Password121]

They could've put a splashdown instead of the final airtime hill and tried to rearrange the plaza to have a path between that and the dive loop/second drop, but that spacing might be difficult/too congested. And then it's very likely that they couldn't do it at all because it's on a lake so they can't dig that far. Didn't somebody already verify that? That's why Millennium Force has above ground tunnels.

 

To be honest I think it'll be fine the way it is. Leave the splashdown down south at Kings Island. And seriously nobody complains that MF or Raptor have no theming so why would anyone care now for Valravn?

 

Oh wait that's right, it's themed to the journey through time to Dino Island had back to its toaster home

[SFOG1991]

Oh wait that's right, it's themed to the journey through time to Dino Island had back to its toaster home

 

This is completely accurate.

[blakelemay23]

Will anyone truly miss a splashdown? Its visually appealing but what else? You don't get wet and without the water its just a straight piece of track, if not having one means an airtime hill im perfectly fine with it as long as its not as weak as Gatekeeper's Camelback.

 

It's good for theming but that's obviously not what Cedar Point is aiming for.

[Brassinthegrass]

I agree with all of this... Also don't forget this is the marina entrance... Not sure if people want to have to dodge a wall of water coming at you as you walk in the park...

 

I don't think a water feature will be missed, I mean, your on a freaking Great Lake!

[DoinItForTheFame]

^ & ^^ I agree. I really don't think the watersplash is needed. The airtime will be a much better feature. And who knows... maybe there will be some airtime!!

[DoinItForTheFame]

Sorry for the double post, but Cedar Point has added some new photos of Valravn that might interest some of you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know this has already been said a million times, but the track for Valravn is massive. Just seeing workers next to the track really puts into perspective how massive not only the track is, but how massive this entire coaster is.