Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[MagnumFreak25]

Ugh, I hate all these CP reliability arguments but, here's my input. First off, when I say a ride is down I mean its closed. Not necessarily a mechanical issue, but still an equally large problem when it comes to guest satisfaction.

So, lets start of with the intamins. Wilderness run, always open. I mean, there's no reason it would close not even sure why I put that there. Wicked Twister: Pretty reliable, I've personally never seen it go down for mechanical reasons but even when it does its usually not a whole day thing. It handles weather pretty well, it's one of the few rides that can run in the rain and wind due to no threat of roll backs. Millenium: Honestly this is probably one of the most reliable rides in the park. Mechanically, it has very few issues and goes down very little. Again it handles weather decently, wind is obviously a problem for it at 300 feet, but it also runs in rain due to the mag brakes(only two train ops). Maverick: This has more mechanical issues than millie, but it isn't down much more than any other ride in my experience. Weather is iffy on this one, Wind isn't a major issue usually but whether it runs in rain or not is kinda 50/50. TTD, Its impossible to say that this ride is reliable, but it has been improving recently. Mechanical issues are generally fixed in an hour or two, but the slightest breeze or drizzle and it'll be down for the next half hour at least. Weather isn't intamins fault, any ride of that size will half to shutdown immediately. Major breakdowns do happen more on this ride than any other in the park.

 

Alright, Now for the B&M's. Gatekeeper: This ride must be made of twigs or something. The ride goes down for 5-10 min. all the time, not sure what the problem is. Also the chain has snapped/broke/malfunctioned twice in its 3 year life. Weather wise, its the worst in the park. Wind and rain take this down faster than dragster does often. Raptor: Mechanical issue's aren't usually a big issue, but Its quite common to see it stuck on the lift for anywhere from 10-30 minutes. Weather wise its a little slower to close in wind and rain than gatekeeper but still one of the first in the park. ScoobyDoo: Goes down for floor related issues pretty often. Only about 15 minutes for the most part. I'm not sure about weather, I haven't noticed any real patterns. Valravn: Obviously this is just a prediction, but It'll probably be accurate. Goes down do to floor getting stuck often. Wind and rain shut it down immediately.

 

Really, both them have a decent amount of downtime. It honestly depends on the day you go and whether you catch the park on a good day or not. If you really want to decide a definitive most reliable, its arrow. The five of them are open pretty much constantly, and at a higher capacity.

[madmax]

While I really like Griffon a dive coaster was a really eh choice for Cedar Pont. Honestly what they really needed was a good wooden coaster. A tight GCI would have fit that spot.

[Mossed]

^ Hard to market a 105 foot tall GCI when you have the coasters Cedar Point has.

 

^^ You see things through an Intamin tilted lens, my friend.

 

^^^ Those seem to be the only elements they put on Dive Coasters, for the most part. Just glad Cedar Point is getting a coaster with more of those elements than any other of it's type. It will be interesting to read the reviews, I expect them to be mostly positive with a slightly mixed reaction.

[christianscoasters]

Ugh, I hate all these CP reliability arguments but, here's my input. First off, when I say a ride is down I mean its closed. Not necessarily a mechanical issue, but still an equally large problem when it comes to guest satisfaction.

So, lets start of with the intamins. Wilderness run, always open. I mean, there's no reason it would close not even sure why I put that there. Wicked Twister: Pretty reliable, I've personally never seen it go down for mechanical reasons but even when it does its usually not a whole day thing. It handles weather pretty well, it's one of the few rides that can run in the rain and wind due to no threat of roll backs. Millenium: Honestly this is probably one of the most reliable rides in the park. Mechanically, it has very few issues and goes down very little. Again it handles weather decently, wind is obviously a problem for it at 300 feet, but it also runs in rain due to the mag brakes(only two train ops). Maverick: This has more mechanical issues than millie, but it isn't down much more than any other ride in my experience. Weather is iffy on this one, Wind isn't a major issue usually but whether it runs in rain or not is kinda 50/50. TTD, Its impossible to say that this ride is reliable, but it has been improving recently. Mechanical issues are generally fixed in an hour or two, but the slightest breeze or drizzle and it'll be down for the next half hour at least. Weather isn't intamins fault, any ride of that size will half to shutdown immediately. Major breakdowns do happen more on this ride than any other in the park.

 

Alright, Now for the B&M's. Gatekeeper: This ride must be made of twigs or something. The ride goes down for 5-10 min. all the time, not sure what the problem is. Also the chain has snapped/broke/malfunctioned twice in its 3 year life. Weather wise, its the worst in the park. Wind and rain take this down faster than dragster does often. Raptor: Mechanical issue's aren't usually a big issue, but Its quite common to see it stuck on the lift for anywhere from 10-30 minutes. Weather wise its a little slower to close in wind and rain than gatekeeper but still one of the first in the park. ScoobyDoo: Goes down for floor related issues pretty often. Only about 15 minutes for the most part. I'm not sure about weather, I haven't noticed any real patterns. Valravn: Obviously this is just a prediction, but It'll probably be accurate. Goes down do to floor getting stuck often. Wind and rain shut it down immediately.

 

Really, both them have a decent amount of downtime. It honestly depends on the day you go and whether you catch the park on a good day or not. If you really want to decide a definitive most reliable, its arrow. The five of them are open pretty much constantly, and at a higher capacity.

 

What?

[Tmcdllr]

Matt Ouimet has totally changed the direction of Cedar Point from super-unreliable Intamin rides, to more reliable slighly-but-not-too innovative B&Ms.

Although I find these big B&Ms generally boring: they do look nice, are easily marketable, high capacity, and much more reliable than the Intamin contraptions they were building before. Can't say I blame him, I wouldn't want to run a business where thousands of people are pissed off every day and many demanding refunds if I didn't have to. I am a little surprised though that they are building a dive machine at this height, I think that if any park is eventually going to break the 500 foot mark it would be CP and a dive machine seemed like a safe and reliable way to do that (and there is plenty of space where Mean Streak is now).

 

 

Super unreliable? Please list example of exactly what you are talking about and compare them to rides from other manufacturers that have never ever had problems.

Dick Kinzel stated in an interview with NPR that building Top Thrill Dragster was the worst decision he ever made as CEO. The ride was SBNO for half the summer the first year it was open, major disappointment. Can you imagine the amount of people that were not only upset but also went to guest relations and demanded refunds? Maverick was built the during the season in 2006 and still didn't open with the park the following year. Had to be re-profiled before it opened and was extremely unreliable for a long time. That Shoot the Rapids ride had a huge accident that made national news. Xcelerator has been SBNO more times than I can count. Intimidator 305 had to be reprofiled and rarely ever ran more than 1 train when it was new because the wheels were literally melting. Wicked Twister (and all the other impluses at the time) had to add supports. Both TTD and Xcelerators cables have frayed while the ride was running causing major PR nightmares and Millennium Force's cable has snapped while it was operating as well (although I can't really verify if this is Intamin or CF's fault, probably a mix of both). I haven't been to CP in years but last time I was there Maverick, TTD, and MF all opened late and all 4 Intamin's broke down while I was in line for them (Maverick broke down at least 10x during the day).

 

It's well known in the industry that Sandor kept giving Kinzel big discounts on new rides because of how unreliable the last ride they built was. It doesn't surprise me at all that now that they have a new CEO they have gone a much safer route.

 

So no other ride by any other manufacturer has ever had any kind of lengthy downtime for any reason.... it's always only Intamin rides?

[thrillrider]

Well....just about every intiman in the park has had some major issues at one point or another. Can't really honestly say that about any of the other coaster companies in the park.

 

The only problem I see with the B&M coasters, is that they tend not to like the wind very much. I don't think it's so much the rides issue, but more of the fact that they are right on lake erie.

[Garet]

Well....just about every intiman in the park has had some major issues at one point or another. Can't really honestly say that about any of the other coaster companies in the park.

 

The only problem I see with the B&M coasters, is that they tend not to like the wind very much. I don't think it's so much the rides issue, but more of the fact that they are right on lake erie.

 

But a lot of these rides for Intamin at Cedar Point were new at the time or pushing the boundaries, I think people forget when they see a new B&M somewhere like Cedar Point or elsewhere that there have been a few others of that type to iron out a lot of the bugs. I remember when B&M tried something new with their flying coaster. I was at Alton towers a few months after AIR first opened and I remember a lot of reports of it being temperamental leading up to that and sure enough it was closed when we drove up to try it out. It was on and off throughout the day and luckily we were there when the line opened but it was 4 hour waits after that with a lot of down-time.

Another example with AT would be the smiler that had a lot of issues which was new and that was Gerstlauer.

 

I think it's a little unfair to say it's only Intamin at Cedar Point when their rides were trying new things as opposed to the other companies building things that had been done before.

[thrillrider]

New or not, they still had/have a lot of downtime compared to the other coasters in the park and that's a fact. The rides they built are top notch, but just not very reliable. I'm not dogging intiman, but just stating facts. The B&M coasters have not had nearly as much downtime as intiman rides have. I understand the whole pushing the envelope thing, but downtime is downtime.

 

I would assume as a park owner, your going to want a thrilling AND reliable ride for your money. Lot's of downtime is not good for the parks image, and bottom line.

 

With that being said, millennium force is still my favorite ride in the park.

[DirkFunk]

So no other ride by any other manufacturer has ever had any kind of lengthy downtime for any reason.... it's always only Intamin rides?

 

I honestly can't think of any coasters in that park that have. As bad as TTD is, Shoot The Rapids might be worse, which is saying a lot. The Huss Giant Frisbee has had a lot of issues, but Huss is also a shell of itself today because their quality dropped so dramatically in the 2000s.

 

Someone actually asked the maintenance guys this ("Are the Intamin rides less reliable?") at the tour I was on during the Winter Chill Out this year, and they flat answered "Yes." But then stopped, backtracked only slightly, and said, "Well, yes, but they're also more complex," followed by a description of Dragster's launch/braking system.

 

RE: wind - usually if Raptor is down due to weather, I see MF and Magnum down too. A couple years ago around opening day, the weather was atrocious on that Sunday and practically everything was valleying and no coasters ran. It took until around 12 noon for the park to remember that Wicked Twister's raison d'etre was to valley, and that was the first coaster up. Both WT and Maverick often do run in less fantastic conditions among the big rides because they have launches that help push the trains through windy conditions. Everything else though....well, that's why if the forecast looks even so-so, I think about finding something else to do other than go to the Point.

[JonnyRCT3]

I think it's a little unfair to say it's only Intamin at Cedar Point when their rides were trying new things as opposed to the other companies building things that had been done before.

 

 

When you spend $25 million dollars on a coaster, it should at least work. Dragster was down more than it was open during its first years. Wicked Twister needed additional bracing and welding to just stay operational, no to mention a reduced launch. Maverick was delayed by needed to be re-profiled. Then we have i305, with a temporary trim fix and then a total re-profile within its first year standing. Then you have STR with boats designed too large too fit.

 

Cedar Fair apparently gets the half-assed engineered Intamins.

[CPmillenia94]

^The bracing on Wicked Twister wasn't necessary to stay operational. Possessed at Dorney still doesn't have the bracing. I was under the impression that it was mostly for aesthetics so people aren't freaking out standing under the tower swaying back and forth by multiple feet. Definitely nothing hazardous. I mean, how would b&m even begin to design something like wicked twister?

 

I know Rougarou had tons of issues with the train rolling out of the station and stopping before reaching the lift, and restraints not opening, and a bunch of other things that caused a lot of maintenance and downtime throughout the year. I know at one point in the season it was faulting every couple of cycles because of issues with the sensors. This is according to an employee who works the ride. There aren't many complex things that COULD go wrong, and they still did. Whereas intamins at least have the excuse of being complex engineering.

Edited September 28, 2015 by CPmillenia94

[coasterbill]

RE: wind - usually if Raptor is down due to weather, I see MF and Magnum down too. A couple years ago around opening day, the weather was atrocious on that Sunday and practically everything was valleying and no coasters ran. It took until around 12 noon for the park to remember that Wicked Twister's raison d'etre was to valley, and that was the first coaster up. Both WT and Maverick often do run in less fantastic conditions among the big rides because they have launches that help push the trains through windy conditions. Everything else though....well, that's why if the forecast looks even so-so, I think about finding something else to do other than go to the Point.

 

From what I can tell, it seems like the first group to close in wind is Raptor, Gatekeeper and Dragster (well no, the first group is Windseeker and Sky Ride but out of the coasters it's these three). They generally always close together. I've heard that if the wind isn't blowing from the bay it's not as big of an issue because Raptor's problem is heading into the mid course and Dragster's problem is obviously clearing the top hat, both of which face the bay but the wind always seems to be coming off the bay so I don't know if this is true). After that the weather would have to be horrendous to close anything else but of course as you said it happens. At least with the wind policy it's semi-consistent but I do wonder if it's a little overly cautious. There are plenty of times where Gatekeeper completely hauls through the dive loop turnaround and keyholes and then shuts down due to wind. Raptor is tougher because it always goes pretty slow into the mid course... with Dragster I don't get why they keep launching until it rolls back but I'm sure there's a reason for it.

 

The rain policy on the other hand is ridiculously inconsistent and ridiculous. The only consistency there is that Dragster won't run. Millennium Force, Corkscrew and Maverick usually run but not always, everything else is a crap shoot... the rain policy is a complete mess.

[JonnyRCT3]

^The bracing on Wicked Twister wasn't necessary to stay operational.

 

Bracing was added, and welding stopped. I think that's enough evidence that they were more than just for looks.

[thrillrider]

^The bracing on Wicked Twister wasn't necessary to stay operational.

 

Bracing was added, and welding stopped. I think that's enough evidence that they were more than just for looks.

 

 

I remember before the braces, the ride was constantly down for welding.

[madmax]

^ Hard to market a 105 foot tall GCI when you have the coasters Cedar Point has.

 

^^ You see things through an Intamin tilted lens, my friend.

 

^^^ Those seem to be the only elements they put on Dive Coasters, for the most part. Just glad Cedar Point is getting a coaster with more of those elements than any other of it's type. It will be interesting to read the reviews, I expect them to be mostly positive with a slightly mixed reaction.

 

What? I'm a huge B&M fan. It's just that a dive coaster feels redundant with Gatekeeper and Rougarou nearby.

[G Force]

RE: wind - usually if Raptor is down due to weather, I see MF and Magnum down too. A couple years ago around opening day, the weather was atrocious on that Sunday and practically everything was valleying and no coasters ran. It took until around 12 noon for the park to remember that Wicked Twister's raison d'etre was to valley, and that was the first coaster up. Both WT and Maverick often do run in less fantastic conditions among the big rides because they have launches that help push the trains through windy conditions. Everything else though....well, that's why if the forecast looks even so-so, I think about finding something else to do other than go to the Point.

 

From what I can tell, it seems like the first group to close in wind is Raptor, Gatekeeper and Dragster (well no, the first group is Windseeker and Sky Ride but out of the coasters it's these three). They generally always close together. I've heard that if the wind isn't blowing from the bay it's not as big of an issue because Raptor's problem is heading into the mid course and Dragster's problem is obviously clearing the top hat, both of which face the bay but the wind always seems to be coming off the bay so I don't know if this is true). After that the weather would have to be horrendous to close anything else but of course as you said it happens. At least with the wind policy it's semi-consistent but I do wonder if it's a little overly cautious. There are plenty of times where Gatekeeper completely hauls through the dive loop turnaround and keyholes and then shuts down due to wind. Raptor is tougher because it always goes pretty slow into the mid course... with Dragster I don't get why they keep launching until it rolls back but I'm sure there's a reason for it.

 

The rain policy on the other hand is ridiculously inconsistent and ridiculous. The only consistency there is that Dragster won't run. Millennium Force, Corkscrew and Maverick usually run but not always, everything else is a crap shoot... the rain policy is a complete mess.

 

Due to the jet stream 95% of the time weather and wind is from the west. So yea, any rides that have slow speed elements that face the west would be most susceptible to wind.

 

I would imagine that this would include Valravn in the future, sadly.

[Koasterking48]

^ Hard to market a 105 foot tall GCI when you have the coasters Cedar Point has.

 

^^ You see things through an Intamin tilted lens, my friend.

 

^^^ Those seem to be the only elements they put on Dive Coasters, for the most part. Just glad Cedar Point is getting a coaster with more of those elements than any other of it's type. It will be interesting to read the reviews, I expect them to be mostly positive with a slightly mixed reaction.

 

What? I'm a huge B&M fan. It's just that a dive coaster feels redundant with Gatekeeper and Rougarou nearby.

Sheikra and Griffon are far different experiences from a wing coaster like Gatekeeper. Rougarou is simply a floorless coaster that is also nothing like a dive coaster. I'm failing to see how a Dive Coaster is redundant.

 

Edit: Sorry, I did find one similarity. Both of the riders' feet dangle. Might as well throw in Raptor too

[CP Maverick]

As long as we're simplifying, why even build another coaster? They have so many options already that adding another coaster will just be more of the same.

 

Really, the dive coaster concept has been locked down by Busch parks with an exclusivity deal, and Cedar Fair jumped on the opportunity to bring one in. The two in the US are extremely well received, with very minimal layouts. Any complaints about "lack" of anything on this ride is only because of the "excess" of everything the park already has.

 

As for the rest of the park, I think more interactive rides and/or water rides would do well at the park. I couldn't believe the number of people that enjoyed the "River Battle" ride at Dollywood on days when everything was a walk-on.

[Texascoaster89]

Obviously my experience at CP is more limited because of where I live. I've made 2 trips in the last year and both times at some point we had rain or some bad weather.

 

Both trips when it rained, nothing stopped but Dragster. It wasn't a sprinkle either both times. When I went in May this year; it was raining decent enough that you'd be soaked if you stood in it too long. Gatekeeper was going when we walked in the entrance and we rode twice, we were soaked after that...but it was running. Millennium Force was also going and we rode that until our poncho's tore from the speed lol. Shortly after rope drop, everything else opened even though it was all soaked at this point. So my impressions of CP and Cedar Fair is that their rain policy is MUCH better than Six Flags.

 

I live here by SFOT and the rain policy is simple...if there's ANYTHING within 15 miles of the park...EVERYTHING stops...you know how depressing it is standing in sunshine looking at Texas Giant and being told closed "due to weather"?

[PVA62]

^ Hard to market a 105 foot tall GCI when you have the coasters Cedar Point has.

 

^^ You see things through an Intamin tilted lens, my friend.

 

^^^ Those seem to be the only elements they put on Dive Coasters, for the most part. Just glad Cedar Point is getting a coaster with more of those elements than any other of it's type. It will be interesting to read the reviews, I expect them to be mostly positive with a slightly mixed reaction.

 

What? I'm a huge B&M fan. It's just that a dive coaster feels redundant with Gatekeeper and Rougarou nearby.

Sheikra and Griffon are far different experiences from a wing coaster like Gatekeeper. Rougarou is simply a floorless coaster that is also nothing like a dive coaster. I'm failing to see how a Dive Coaster is redundant.

 

Edit: Sorry, I did find one similarity. Both of the riders' feet dangle. Might as well throw in Raptor too

 

To add to the dangling feet...Corkscrew, Gemini, Iron Dragon, TTD, MF, Maverick, MS, BS, Magnum, Wilderness Run, Woodstock Express are all redundant as well! They need to remove them all except for one. How dare a park have more than one coaster that you sit down on and have a floor beneath you...

 

But seriously, the dive machine looks awesome. I've never been on one and I'm really looking forward to riding this next year. I do agree that maybe a dark ride is much more of a need right now instead of a coaster, but who cares, they'll get one eventually.

[DoinItForTheFame]

. . . I would assume as a park owner, your going to want a thrilling AND reliable ride for your money. . .

 

Maybe that's why the are building a B&M Dive Machine. It's both thrilling AND reliable. . .

 

It's so crazy to think that the people in charge of deciding what kind of new attraction the park gets... ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

[thrillrider]

Just got to the park and they actually have the metal detectors cheking everybody that enters the gate.

[John Peck]

^ sadly, with the haunt, you can get a rougher crowd. Kings Island has had those on saturday and friday nights during their Haunts.

[Peeps28]

Are they charging to get in the haunted houses this year?

[DoinItForTheFame]

Are they charging to get in the haunted houses this year?

 

https://www.cedarpoint.com/haunt/tickets-offers