The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[Arthur_Seaton]

^ I never got to ride Flashback, as it had already been turned into a batch of Hampton Bay toaster ovens by the time I became interested in coasters. Still, it sounds more fun and reliable than GL. Is Knott's old Boomerang still up for sale, though?

I really liked Flashback, but I know I'm in the minority (I also really liked Psyclone — even when it ran super slow). Flashback was bumpy with a lousy train that obscured your view, but the track was so unique and fun. However, it was tucked away in the park and didn't have much draw for the GP or major thrill seekers. There was never a line for it, so it didn't really stand much of a chance to stick around for the long haul. With some restraint modifications and maybe a little train redesign, I think it would have made a fantastic enclosed coaster — which, from what I gather, was the original intent for the design.

[Manic Monte]

Green Lantern was an injury, lawsuit waiting to happen. It's a shame six flags is more interested in their coaster count then the safety of their guests. I mean, is anyone surprised someone got hurt on it. I'm not. Maybe they should have over trimmed the ride before they got sued. Now, maybe, coaster #20 will still be #19.. SBNO doesnt count, in my book anyway...still think they should just tear it down

 

To be fair to the park, there are a couple of important things to note:

 

1. Has it even been confirmed that there is a lawsuit?

 

2. Magic Mountain can't just do whatever they want to a ride. It had the approval of Intamin and the state of CA to open. You can armchair engineer all you want, but actual engineers approved it to open.

 

3. Magic Mountain may not have the best reputation, but I can say with confidence not even they would be grossly negligent in operating a ride.

 

Exactly right! I would also add that SFMM can't just remove a ride when they feel like it. There is a chain of command and much red tape to get past first (not to mention budget approval to do so). Which is often why rides that enthusiasts would just soon wipe off the map, often take years before any action is taken, if it's approved at all.

[Truth Hurts]

^ I never got to ride Flashback, as it had already been turned into a batch of Hampton Bay toaster ovens by the time I became interested in coasters. Still, it sounds more fun and reliable than GL. Is Knott's old Boomerang still up for sale, though?

I really liked Flashback, but I know I'm in the minority (I also really liked Psyclone — even when it ran super slow). Flashback was bumpy with a lousy train that obscured your view, but the track was so unique and fun. However, it was tucked away in the park and didn't have much draw for the GP or major thrill seekers. There was never a line for it, so it didn't really stand much of a chance to stick around for the long haul. With some restraint modifications and maybe a little train redesign, I think it would have made a fantastic enclosed coaster — which, from what I gather, was the original intent for the design.[/qu

 

Of Course with some car and restraint modifications, that ride would have been killer. Always have a blast riding it. Especially at night when it had the flashing lights. I always thought it would fit perfect where GL is at now. I'd wish they really took care of it and moved it but I know money is always an issue.

[SteVeUrkle]

Flashback was OK when it was first around, but I feel like it got a lot worse over time. It had this terribly designed quick pre-lift drop nobody ever coming, so it was a good way to whack your head before the ride even got started. I believe originally it was an indoor coaster which you rode in the dark, then when Magic Mountain got it they ditched the cover and made it an outdoor ride. They called the inversions "hairpin drops" which were actually pretty unique for its time. And yes, the trains were bad too, you couldn't see anything. If you were in the front seat even, the train had this big high front piece which made it super difficult to see over. Also the trains had both lapbars and OTSR's which were bulky and not soft. It was super loud too. I think my favorite part was the ending helix.

 

And as far as safety, I will tell you it may not appear to be a priority, but they have VERY STRICT safety guidelines, and I believe they have one of the best track records when it comes to rider incidents in the industry. They're really, one of the best.

[Arthur_Seaton]

Flashback was OK when it was first around, but I feel like it got a lot worse over time. It had this terribly designed quick pre-lift drop nobody ever coming, so it was a good way to whack your head before the ride even got started. I believe originally it was an indoor coaster which you rode in the dark, then when Magic Mountain got it they ditched the cover and made it an outdoor ride. They called the inversions "hairpin drops" which were actually pretty unique for its time. And yes, the trains were bad too, you couldn't see anything. If you were in the front seat even, the train had this big high front piece which made it super difficult to see over. Also the trains had both lapbars and OTSR's which were bulky and not soft. It was super loud too. I think my favorite part was the ending helix.

I remember that pre-lift dip. It was way too sharp for the size of the trains. Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't there some warning on the backs of each seat not to touch the train in front of because of the articulations in made through sections like that?

 

If I'm not mistaken, it was designed with enclosure in mind but never actually was enclosed at any park. It really would be a good indoor / space-type coaster (it was even called the "space diver" by Intamin), but not with those restraints.

 

What was surprising about the inversions was that, in the front at least, you got some pretty serious hangtime before the train actually dropped. But what was also fascinating was just how tight the manoeuvres were. And yes, the visibility from the train was terrible. I clearly remember front-seat rides in which you barely see over the train's nose. THe ride was such a cool concept, but not quite what it could / should have been. It's the kind of thing I wish Knoebel's would have saved!

[SFMMGeek27]

From what I’ve heard there is a lawsuit and it still isn’t settled. However, the park installed the trims to try and get the ride open but the modifications weren’t approved by the state. So now all work for Green Lantern has stalled for the time being and there’s currently no reopening timetable.

[E. Robert Pugh]

Green Lantern is the second coming of Flashback.

[Arthur_Seaton]

Green Lantern is the second coming of Flashback.

Nah! Flashback was quirky and decent, albeit a bit head-bangy. Green Lantern is quite possibly the worst roller coaster in the history of roller coasters!

[CedarFlags]

I know it's not realistic, but... I would love to see Green Lantern go away and get replaced by a S&S Freefly instead.... if only the park had waited like 3 more years.

 

Flashback was an extremely weird coaster that I think I only rode one time. It was an awkward, but necessary transitional step in the design history of Intamin/B&M

[domirellativegal]

Hi Guys, just a quick question, is there WiFI in the Park or do I need to buy a new Sim Card for my California Trip?

[Truth Hurts]

That lil dip before chain lift was unnecessary! Since I am a tall person the restraint fit perfect. I loved the hairpin drops especially the upward hairpin bank. Both of my cousin were ride ops for this beats and always complained about the noise. That's why towards the end they didn't run it when Hurricane Harbor was open. Too close and the noise level was too much for the people lounging in the chairs.

 

Can you imagine if they had moved this to where GL is at! The noise from Batman, Riddle and The Flash (Flashback) would have been awesome to hear.

 

Wishful thinking.

[Superbatboy]

Flashback wasn't that bad, the unnecessary OSTRs is what killed it. I actually loved the pre-lift drop, it was so forceful and sudden. I also miss the loud roar it made.

[E. Robert Pugh]

I went to the park today to check out the construction and ride a couple things. It was brutally hot so shout out to SFMMGeek27 if he was working because dear Lord I couldn't take that weather. Check out some pictures!

What do you think this old random ride station will become?

Jet Stream opened late, and definitely needs some love.

The retail shop looks completely intact and safe... for now.

Across the midway, you can see they're either replacing pieces of wood on Apocalypse or at the very beginning stages of tearing the melonfarmer out.

The Great Blue Wall. Ninja's first drop looks so naked these days.

The arcade is surrounded by fencing and everything around it has been reduced to dirt. It seems like the building itself is safe though.

Some parks provide webcams, SFMM provides holes in their tarp!

There's also some work still to be done near Crazanity.

[Arthur_Seaton]

I went to the park today to check out the construction and ride a couple things. It was brutally hot so shout out to SFMMGeek27 if he was working because dear Lord I couldn't take that weather.

Also just got back from a few hours there. We were hoping that the heat would keep people away, but it was somewhat busy. X2's line looked like it was way out into the switchbacks (viewed from the top of Viper); Tatsu's sweat pen was full; even Ninja's line was up onto the second floor. Fortunately, we got onto Crazanity with just a two-cycle wait (so, about 20 minutes), and Superman, Scream, and Viper were all walk ons. We got a nasty ear-bashing from scream right at the end, coming out of the second corkscrew. TC was down (no trains on the track at all that we could see — supposedly opening again at 4pm), and it looked like Justice League wasn't working when we passed (not that we'd ride it anyway). Watched a group of teens jump the Crazanity fence to join their friends right in front of everyone in line. Some folks called them out, but the teens laughed in their face. We told the op at the gate who also laughed, albeit more nervously. It doesn't seem like they have the manpower to monitor that area, so hopefully they'll increase the size of the railing a bit. But yes, it was satanically hot today.

[Manic Monte]

^ I hate days like that. I don't even have enough energy to do a loop around the park.

[SFMMGeek27]

Thankfully I was off today, but I’ll be back there tomorrow. Luckily it’s supposed to cool down soon to the mid-90s which is totally doable. It’s really only bad when it’s 105+. Good pictures!

[sprkn_ranger]

Went to the park today after work for some dinner and took a stroll over to cyclone bay. Looks like the work area is a bit bigger than we think. It’s hard to say what these might be for...they don’t have anything written on them that you would understand unless you had a set of plans. And it’s not colored right for utility marking (which survey USUALY doesn’t do anyway) and there would be no need to mark utility’s out there unless the “work limits” go out that far. Oh and it looks like they are going to install more railing at Crazanity to try and keep people off the planter.

 

Survey wood!

More survey wood!

Spot the “hard to see but definitely there survey wood”!

Easier to see survey wood!

Looks like they are going to install some more railing at Crazanity.

[tanthonyam]

Ok so what happened with Green Lantern?

[AllenA07]

It has always been interesting to me that Flashback, a ride which bearly operated in the last several years of its actual operating life is at the center of so many myths and legends. When it was open there was the popular rumor that once upon a time it had been an enclosed ride or that it was at least meant to be enclosed. While I can't comment what the original intentions of Intamin were, the ride never spent a single day operating inside an enclosed building. The other popular rumor was that there was a second space diver roller coaster out there just waiting to be built. If it exists, I never once saw any evidence that Flashback had a twin.

 

As for the ride itself, it had a lot going against it. First, when Hurricane Harbor was open, Flashback had to be closed due to the noise. This means that basically for the entire Summer season Flashback was SBNO. Even during the months when it could operate, the ride really didn't. The last time I had seen it running was late 2002. I understand that it may have operated in the early Spring of 2003, but after that, the ride was SBNO until it's demolition. Between 1998 and 2003 even during the times the ride could run, it was almost always closed. Even when it was open, it was basically always a walk-on. The ride was difficult to find and never got much attention.

 

I didn't hate Flashback, but I would stop well short of calling it a fun roller coaster. The drops were interesting at the time, however, the vast majority of the ride was just straight track in between the drops. There were no elements (other than an upward helix at the end) and very few hills. Most of the time you just traveled along a perfectly level track in a nice straight line. The trains were terrible, they were horribly oversized, uncomfortable, had restrictive views, and just were all around bad. By the end, the paint was in pretty bad shape on both the ride and the trains, to the point where you could easily see the old blue Z-Force layer of paint on the trains in spots. The trains always felt so incredibly overweight, you could seriously feel just how sluggish the ride was through that final helix.

 

Back in the early 2000's I had some pretty decent sources telling me that there was some real talk about relocating the ride to a different part of the park, retheming it, replacing the trains, and giving it another shot at life. This had been a rumor floating around during that time, however, the people chatting with me about it back then did make me think that some actual thought may have occurred. Had the ride been relocated they were looking at the spot where the Cyclone 500 sits, or possibly something adjacent to that. While I'm confident that there were any considerations of moving the ride, I never was sure how serious those discussions were. Had Jim Blackie at one point said, hey we should move Flashback and let it drop, I suppose that counts as a consideration. Either way, the plans obviously never went anywhere, which honestly was probably for the best.

[Truth Hurts]

It has always been interesting to me that Flashback, a ride which bearly operated in the last several years of its actual operating life is at the center of so many myths and legends. When it was open there was the popular rumor that once upon a time it had been an enclosed ride or that it was at least meant to be enclosed. While I can't comment what the original intentions of Intamin were, the ride never spent a single day operating inside an enclosed building. The other popular rumor was that there was a second space diver roller coaster out there just waiting to be built. If it exists, I never once saw any evidence that Flashback had a twin.

 

As for the ride itself, it had a lot going against it. First, when Hurricane Harbor was open, Flashback had to be closed due to the noise. This means that basically for the entire Summer season Flashback was SBNO. Even during the months when it could operate, the ride really didn't. The last time I had seen it running was late 2002. I understand that it may have operated in the early Spring of 2003, but after that, the ride was SBNO until it's demolition. Between 1998 and 2003 even during the times the ride could run, it was almost always closed. Even when it was open, it was basically always a walk-on. The ride was difficult to find and never got much attention.

 

I didn't hate Flashback, but I would stop well short of calling it a fun roller coaster. The drops were interesting at the time, however, the vast majority of the ride was just straight track in between the drops. There were no elements (other than an upward helix at the end) and very few hills. Most of the time you just traveled along a perfectly level track in a nice straight line. The trains were terrible, they were horribly oversized, uncomfortable, had restrictive views, and just were all around bad. By the end, the paint was in pretty bad shape on both the ride and the trains, to the point where you could easily see the old blue Z-Force layer of paint on the trains in spots. The trains always felt so incredibly overweight, you could seriously feel just how sluggish the ride was through that final helix.

 

Back in the early 2000's I had some pretty decent sources telling me that there was some real talk about relocating the ride to a different part of the park, retheming it, replacing the trains, and giving it another shot at life. This had been a rumor floating around during that time, however, the people chatting with me about it back then did make me think that some actual thought may have occurred. Had the ride been relocated they were looking at the spot where the Cyclone 500 sits, or possibly something adjacent to that. While I'm confident that there were any considerations of moving the ride, I never was sure how serious those discussions were. Had Jim Blackie at one point said, hey we should move Flashback and let it drop, I suppose that counts as a consideration. Either way, the plans obviously never went anywhere, which honestly was probably for the best.

 

Really wish they kept it and gave it special treatment in a new area. This ride would have been killer with floorless trains.

[AllenA07]

Really wish they kept it and gave it special treatment in a new area. This ride would have been killer with floorless trains.

 

I don't agree with this, Flashback just wasn't that good of a ride as it stood. Like I said, even had they replaced the awful trains, and moved it to a spot in the park where it could operate, it wouldn't have changed the fact that the ride was redundant with a complete lack of elements. I've never been on a roller coaster and found myself saying "Gee this ride could use more straight sections." That was what Flashback was, interesting drops and long stretches of straight track. And sure the hairpin drop was cool the first time, after that it just became repetitive. If they had wanted to save Flashback I think the best option would have been to enclose it and add special effects to try and make it more exciting. Even then, I don't really know if it would have been enough to really make it a good ride, and I certainly don't think the park would have seen a meaningful return on the investment had they chosen to go that direction.

[southpuddle]

Flashback truly needed lap bar only trains to ever have a chance. Some of those transitions were truly brutal - notably the upward s-turn immediately after the second hairpin drop, which gave me the most forceful whack to the head I that I can remember on any ride ever.

 

The last time I rode Flashback was late 2002 or early 2003 when I was a senior in high school. A friend and I went to MM several times those years after getting our drivers licenses and season passes, making the trip from the Fresno area. At some point in the day we saw it running - we were estatic because of course it was almost never open and it had been years since either of us had ridden it. We both still think it’s funny that Flashback was the highlight of that particular trip, and unbeknownst to us, that may very well have been one of the last times it ever ran.

Edited August 1, 2018 by southpuddle

[Arthur_Seaton]

Really wish they kept it and gave it special treatment in a new area. This ride would have been killer with floorless trains.

 

I don't agree with this, Flashback just wasn't that good of a ride as it stood. Like I said, even had they replaced the awful trains, and moved it to a spot in the park where it could operate, it wouldn't have changed the fact that the ride was redundant with a complete lack of elements. I've never been on a roller coaster and found myself saying "Gee this ride could use more straight sections." That was what Flashback was, interesting drops and long stretches of straight track. And sure the hairpin drop was cool the first time, after that it just became repetitive. If they had wanted to save Flashback I think the best option would have been to enclose it and add special effects to try and make it more exciting. Even then, I don't really know if it would have been enough to really make it a good ride, and I certainly don't think the park would have seen a meaningful return on the investment had they chosen to go that direction.

 

I do agree with Truthhurts that floorless trains would have worked well on this one (or maybe Infinity coaster-type trains?), at least when running it outdoors. Aside from the lift and station, I only recall two relatively brief straight sections of track, both of which served to increase anticipation of the impending plunges (and, I assume, these would have been capitalized on in a dark ride scenario). Both were block brakes too, I think, and the second was much a bit shorter than the first due to the preceding upward twist element. I think the straight sections fit the ride really well, personally. The rest of the ride was filled with a series of really unusual and varied elements like drops, turns, hills, and that final twisting helix. It's certainly not a ride that reflects popular tastes, and I get why it didn't survive, but it was truly unique and, as others have mentioned, was totally innovative for its time. That the designers managed to keep the entire track inside a tiny rectangular footprint was impressive and certainly reflects the original (apocryphal?) intent of it being a dark ride of some sort. That might even explain why the train design had such limited visibility? Still, it managed to bash my ears on many occasions!

[Jew]

Just call flashback what it was: a POS. It was a physical example of the limitations of technology back then, in the sense you could only design and engineer so much based on the tools available.

[anthonyg3521]

I went up to the park on Monday with some friends who had never gone, and I noticed something about Goliath. It's been a tradition for me to wait it out for front row every time, ever since my brother took me on it for the first time, and one of my friends decided to wait with me, while the rest banked for a middle seat. My friend and I came off having a much bigger reaction then the rest of our friends, and I was wondering, for anyone who has done both front seat and middle/back seats if there really is a big difference between the ride experience.