The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[goatdan]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but unless there is some financial wizardry going on there (like a few huge, expensive buy out or something) I simply don't understand it. Magic Mountain has *always* catered to the teenage crowd that is NOT the crowd likely to go buy souvenirs or eat much in the parks.

 

Based on that, how Magic Mountain would gain the highest total guest spending the the company is completely beyond me.

 

I don't claim to know much, but I also know this would be a H-U-G-E turn around from just a few years ago, and nothing that I have read or seen about the park since then suggests to me Disney-like numbers on operating days with tons of people free-spending for meals and whatnot.

 

For the record, I've argued before that Magic Mountain does everything right in a market dominated by Disney, Knotts and Universal to create a different brand altogether, and I think they are very solid because of that. This isn't me bashing them, just absolutely floored if the park was suddenly selling more YOLO shirts to teens than say Fiesta Texas (or really, any other property) is selling Bugs Bunny merch to families.

[coasterbill]

just absolutely floored if the park was suddenly selling more YOLO shirts to teens than say Fiesta Texas (or really, any other property) is selling Bugs Bunny merch to families.

 

How much Bugs Bunny Merchandise do those parks sell in January and February?

 

Until this year Six Flags Magic Mountain was the only Six Flags park in the U.S. open year round. Because of this nobody should be surprised by the fact that it's their most profitable park. They have about 18-20% more operating time than Six Flags Fiesta Texas. When compared to parks like Great Adventure and Six Flags Great America where the parks are closed 5 months out of the year the difference is even more drastic. There's no financial wizardry, just more operating time which translates into more time to make a profit.

 

One other factor which is probably much smaller is that the park is located in Southern California. Not only is it a huge market where average household income is pretty high but the weather is perfect pretty much every single day. If we have a rainy Saturday and Sunday at Great Adventure in July the park probably takes a big hit from that. Magic Mountain almost never has to worry about bad weather keeping the guests away.

 

They said "highest total guest spending in the company" NOT "highest average guest spending". It's creative language but with the sheer numbers the park does this shouldn't be a surprise.

[GigaG]

Why can't we mention the source?

Robb's rule, if you mention that person or their website you'll be banned from TPR. That's all I know.

 

Where's the rule so I don't accidentally mention the unmentionable?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Why is the website unmentionable by name?

[Vonni]

Why can't we mention the source?

Robb's rule, if you mention that person or their website you'll be banned from TPR. That's all I know.

 

Where's the rule so I don't accidentally mention the unmentionable?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Why is the website unmentionable by name?

 

 

Is the rule in the TOS? I'm wanting to know myself so I can avoid an accidental use.

[GigaG]

Why can't we mention the source?

Robb's rule, if you mention that person or their website you'll be banned from TPR. That's all I know.

 

Where's the rule so I don't accidentally mention the unmentionable?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Why is the website unmentionable by name?

 

 

Is the rule in the TOS? I'm wanting to know myself so I can avoid an accidental use.

 

If you look up the profits thing, you will find the site. It is filtered here as BLOCKEDSITE. It does not appear in the TOS.

[Vonni]

^ Ok, I found it. I don't know the back story behind this situation, but at least I now know what not to reference.

[Jew]

There is no point in further discussing this "rule." Please get back on the topic of discussing SFMM.

[goatdan]

How much Bugs Bunny Merchandise do those parks sell in January and February?

 

Until this year Six Flags Magic Mountain was the only Six Flags park in the U.S. open year round. Because of this nobody should be surprised by the fact that it's their most profitable park. They have about 18-20% more operating time than Six Flags Fiesta Texas. When compared to parks like Great Adventure and Six Flags Great America where the parks are closed 5 months out of the year the difference is even more drastic. There's no financial wizardry, just more operating time which translates into more time to make a profit.

 

One other factor which is probably much smaller is that the park is located in Southern California. Not only is it a huge market where average household income is pretty high but the weather is perfect pretty much every single day. If we have a rainy Saturday and Sunday at Great Adventure in July the park probably takes a big hit from that. Magic Mountain almost never has to worry about bad weather keeping the guests away.

 

They said "highest total guest spending in the company" NOT "highest average guest spending". It's creative language but with the sheer numbers the park does this shouldn't be a surprise.

 

However, that doesn't work either. The most recent released attendance figures of Magic Mountain yearly I could find was from another post on here in 2012 when they claimed 2,808,000 to lead all Six Flags parks. But, as you mentioned, they have 20%+ more operating days than say, Great Adventure or Great America.

 

But here's the thing - when you end up with more people at a park, you don't end up with that many more employees. For most parks, running one or two trains on a roller coaster is the exact same number of operators. If a park has 10,000 guests versus 40,000 guests, it isn't like the park needs four times as many people to run the rides on the busier days, or for that matter run the stores, food locations, or whatever else.

 

Based on that logic, SFMM is at a *disadvantage* by staying open year round unless you're specifically talking revenue for staying open year round unless we believe that parks like Great Adventure and Great America are drawing less than 2 million a year - by having a compressed schedule, it makes earning profit (which is what is claimed, not revenue) for the park more difficult.

 

I agree that the way the second one is worded about guest spending, it could not be per capita related and instead be gross receipts, but unless that first one about the highest profits in the company ever are just comparing Magic Mountain to Magic Mountain, as an outside observer who kind of sort of understands the working of these sorts of things, it simply doesn't make sense.

 

Again, more power to Magic Mountain if this is true, but it just seems to defy logic - based specifically on their extended operating calendar and attendance.

[Vonni]

Is there an In-N-Out close to SFMM. Either walking distance, or a short drive?

[coasterbill]

unless you're specifically talking revenue for staying open year round unless we believe that parks like Great Adventure and Great America are drawing less than 2 million a year - by having a compressed schedule, it makes earning profit (which is what is claimed, not revenue) for the park more difficult.

 

Sorry, I'm a little confused. I am only talking about revenue because they're only talking about revenue (unless I missed something).

 

Highest profits in the company – ever!

This is a direct result of the fact that they're open every day combined with inflation.

 

Highest total guest spending in the company – ever!

This is a direct result of the fact that they're open every day combined with inflation.

 

Highest single revenue month

They never said "in the company" like they did in the other ones, this probably means that they're only talking about SFMM and that stands to reason due to inflation.

 

Highest single day revenue

Again, they never said "in the company" like they did in the other ones, this probably means that they're only talking about SFMM and that stands to reason due to inflation.

 

Highest catered ticket and meal revenue in the company

This is a direct result of the fact that they're open every day combined with inflation.

[goatdan]

Sorry, I'm a little confused. I am only talking about revenue because they're only talking about revenue (unless I missed something).

 

Highest profits in the company – ever!

This is a direct result of the fact that they're open every day combined with inflation.

 

No, they aren't only talking about revenue. Read the part in quotes right above that. Profits aren't revenue - they are the actual money *made*, which is where my bafflement comes from.

 

If they were just talking about revenue, it wouldn't have stuck out at me like a sort thumb.

[Someotherguyuser]

Is there an In-N-Out close to SFMM. Either walking distance, or a short drive?

The closest In N Out that I know of in the area is on the Old Road. Right when you're going up the 5 freeway, you'll see it amidst all of the fast food places (It's aka Hamburger Hill). It's about a ten minute drive from SFMM. There's one by Newhall to if you go straight down Magic Mountain Parkway and turn left on Railroad Ave. It'll then turn into Boquet Canyon drive and be to your left. That one is about a ten minute excursion as well. Those are the closest In N Outs to SFMM.

[Manic Monte]

Is it really baffling that SFMM could have a great year? While their target demo is definitely teens, that old stereotype of young people not spending money is beyond outdated.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Manic Monte

[coasterbill]

Sorry, I'm a little confused. I am only talking about revenue because they're only talking about revenue (unless I missed something).

 

Highest profits in the company – ever!

This is a direct result of the fact that they're open every day combined with inflation.

 

No, they aren't only talking about revenue. Read the part in quotes right above that. Profits aren't revenue - they are the actual money *made*, which is where my bafflement comes from.

 

If they were just talking about revenue, it wouldn't have stuck out at me like a sort thumb.

 

While maybe I should have worded that better, I would argue that it's a direct result of their full season operations. When a park decides that their hours should be for the year, I'm sure they're following a simple formula. On days when the park is projected to draw enough people to make a profit, they'll be open. On days when the park is not projected to draw enough people for them to make a profit they'll be closed.

 

Other factors play into this of course like the requirements of seasonal employees but generally speaking hours are based on a strong probability that they'll make a profit on the days they're open. With that being said, if they're open more days than anyone else it's very likely that they'll make a higher profit than everyone else too. The only ways that wouldn't be the case would be if the other parks had profit margins that were so much higher than SFMM's that they made more money with less days or if their attendance projections were wrong (or of course if major unforeseen expenses pop up).

[Vonni]

Is there an In-N-Out close to SFMM. Either walking distance, or a short drive?

The closest In N Out that I know of in the area is on the Old Road. Right when you're going up the 5 freeway, you'll see it amidst all of the fast food places (It's aka Hamburger Hill). It's about a ten minute drive from SFMM. There's one by Newhall to if you go straight down Magic Mountain Parkway and turn left on Railroad Ave. It'll then turn into Boquet Canyon drive and be to your left. That one is about a ten minute excursion as well. Those are the closest In N Outs to SFMM.

 

 

Thank you for the information! I appreciate that! I don't know when I'll be back in Cali, but next time I'm definitely eating at In-N-Out!

[Someotherguyuser]

Is there an In-N-Out close to SFMM. Either walking distance, or a short drive?

The closest In N Out that I know of in the area is on the Old Road. Right when you're going up the 5 freeway, you'll see it amidst all of the fast food places (It's aka Hamburger Hill). It's about a ten minute drive from SFMM. There's one by Newhall to if you go straight down Magic Mountain Parkway and turn left on Railroad Ave. It'll then turn into Boquet Canyon drive and be to your left. That one is about a ten minute excursion as well. Those are the closest In N Outs to SFMM.

 

 

Thank you for the information! I appreciate that! I don't know when I'll be back in Cali, but next time I'm definitely eating at In-N-Out!

Do so! In N Out's burgers are better than SFMM's coasters.

[WFChris]

It's my understanding that Six Flags Mexico consistently has the highest attendance, guest spending, and guest satisfaction of any park in the chain.

[SharkTums]

^That's more in line with what I've heard as well. Plus that downtime figure SFMM released is a bit questionable!

[robbalvey]

Where's the rule so I don't accidentally mention the unmentionable?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Why is the website unmentionable by name?

We were being "nice" and used to allow this person to spam our forums with links to their updates, and then they started writing obnoxious, disparaging stuff about us on their Twitter page. So we simply stopped allowing them to post their updates here, and banned the account. Let the lesson be learned that if you want someone to do something for you that only benefits that person (we get nothing out of it as we do our own SFMM updates), you really should learn to "play nice" or take the consequences.

 

So yeah, that's why they aren't allowed to post on our forum or be mentioned anymore.

[LiMiT]

So, how is X2 doing? Still shaking everything up (including the riders)?

[goatdan]

While maybe I should have worded that better, I would argue that it's a direct result of their full season operations. When a park decides that their hours should be for the year, I'm sure they're following a simple formula. On days when the park is projected to draw enough people to make a profit, they'll be open. On days when the park is not projected to draw enough people for them to make a profit they'll be closed.

 

Other factors play into this of course like the requirements of seasonal employees but generally speaking hours are based on a strong probability that they'll make a profit on the days they're open. With that being said, if they're open more days than anyone else it's very likely that they'll make a higher profit than everyone else too. The only ways that wouldn't be the case would be if the other parks had profit margins that were so much higher than SFMM's that they made more money with less days or if their attendance projections were wrong (or of course if major unforeseen expenses pop up).

 

First, fun debate

 

While I agree with what you're saying, in this particular case A + B doesn't = C.

 

With what you described, A is that they wouldn't open without being profitable. I totally agree with that. So, let's say for the ease of explanation, 5,000 people is where they break even, so any day they expect more then that they'll make money. Any day the park will have more than 5,000 people, it's open! Profit!

 

The problem is that with B, profit doesn't move on a straight line. There is a BIG curve to it. Let's say that there are 6,000 people projected to come. To run Batman, you need three employees. They can run one train, no problem. If they need to, they could even run two.

 

Now, let's say that 12,000 people come. Batman does not suddenly need 6 people to run. The more you go up, the more crazy it sounds - a 30k attendance day, which would happen sometimes, you would then guess that they would need 18 people to run Batman. Can you imagine that? It would be crazy.

 

They do, of course, staff up food and store locations, but again the rate of doing so isn't so dramatic. If one employee is enough to keep a store's doors open at 6,000 people, maybe they get 2 at 12,000, but that means that they still have one employee if the day has 11,000 people at it, so they would make more money at 11,000 people than 6,000.

 

Which actually means that in fact just because Magic Mountain is open does not in any way equate to them making a larger operating *profit* than any other park. For easy math, if Magic Mountain is open 250 days and draws 2.5 million guests, that is an average of 10,000 per day. If Great Adventure is open for 180 days and draws 2 million guests, then Great Adventure is drawing 11,111 / day on average, which actually makes it *easier* for Great Adventure to profit.

 

So again, that is why that number - about the profit - sticks out at me as being so weird. Revenue-wise, if SFMM is the most attended in the chain, they should automatically win the revenue battle. Profit-wise however, a park like Great America or Great Adventure, which handles a larger average crowd, should actually theoretically profit more.

 

Hope that makes sense. Amusement park math is fun

[singemfrc]

So, how is X2 doing? Still shaking everything up (including the riders)?

Keeping in mind experiences are subjective, the early reviews I've heard have been positive, so I'm optimistic about my upcoming visit.

[VTown661]

Is there an In-N-Out close to SFMM. Either walking distance, or a short drive?

 

Ya two local ones. Make a rt on the old rd at base of entrance to 6 flags and go about 4/5 miles and its on left side, if you get to Calgrove you went to far and should have just eaten at Jonny Rockets inside 6 flags and saved 90 minutes.

[Jew]

I'm not one of those people who think In-N-Out is the greatest thing ever (though it is really damn good for the price), but I would NEVER recommend eating at Johnny Rockets inside SFMM (which really just feels/tastes like a regular SFMM burger with a nicer bun) over leaving the park for real food!

[fpsphil]

^ if you go to a regular johnny rockets, the food quality is way way better than the SFMM Johnny rockets