Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[prozach626]

*Double post due to delay*

  

On 8/15/2022 at 1:48 AM, rachelmadcow said:

Six Flags' biggest problem is that their parks are not stratified properly.

Even stores like Louis Vuitton have stratified stores, they have their Pinnacle stores which get all the latest and most exclusive stuff vs their Outfitter locations that only carries the most classic time-tested LV products. This is how LV thrives in boring places like DC or Aspen, and flashy places like Las Vegas and Miami. 

Six Flags has no stratification in place like this.

 

Off-hand SFMM should be the Flagship and should receive what other parks get before any other park. WW should have been installed before NJ Devil and been the first of a trio. SFMM receiving it a full calendar year before Great Adventure or Great America would place SFMM in the Pinnacle position. 

Obviously the Pinnacle should be the most attended park and should serve as the preview for what to expect in the other parks. Trickled down. 

Another one, SFMM should have received Aquaman first, not SFOT. That is another ridiculous oversight that compromises the brand as a whole. SFMM should have gotten Aquaman for a full calendar year then they can build clones all over if they choose. Six Flags needs a centralized department that creates Trios or Quartets of rides to be installed in a strategic manner across the country. Each park should have a one-off rides to ensure it is unique in some way. 

The installation of the arrow triplets (viper shockwave gasm) and batman clones IS six flags dna. 

Six Flags should consider selling off all their lowest performing parks, namely SFA.

A park like SFA has so little to do with a 'real' Six Flags like Great Adventure it shouldn't even have the Six Flags name. 

 

They should seriously consider dropping 100 million on SFMM to turn it into the Pinnacle. SFMM has been neglected since honestly 2008. 

Right, but there's one thing... No one who goes to Magic Mountain knows, or gives a shit that Six Flags Over Texas got a new ride style before them. 

"Stratification" seems to exist when you compare parks like Magic Mountain to Saint Louis. Or, are they both getting cutting edge attractions?

19 hours ago, coasternut said:

^ Upper management hasn't got a clue.

I bet you would know how to handle the business better for the long run. You seem to have it all figured out, right?

[SteveStL]

On 8/15/2022 at 6:40 PM, AmyUD06 said:

$40 for parking at SFGAdv, wow.  That absolutely blows my mind.  When I first started working for the park at those very booths where you pay for parking in 1998, it was $7.  That is a 471% increase.  For comparison, the inflation rate for those 24 years totals 82%.

$30 bucks to park at SFStL.  Insanity ... at least bring back the Trams for that price!  Yes, I am old enough to remember the Parking Lot Trams SFStL used to offer.

[prozach626]

Fucking ridiculous amount to charge for parking.

[leftcoaster]

Visiting CP October 1st and 2nd (Sat and Sun). My 2nd time visiting. First was 2007 and MF wasn't open the day I visited. I literally cried (but I did ride the old Mean Streak and it was a scary experience) so you can imagine how excited I am to finally cross so many bucket list coasters off my list. Does anyone know if this weekend will be cray cray busy?! Does the price of FL+ go up those days because of the Halloween theming?? Any tips for navigating the park would be much appreciated. 

[TrippinBillie]

2 minutes ago, leftcoaster said:

Visiting CP October 1st and 2nd (Sat and Sun). My 2nd time visiting. First was 2007 and MF wasn't open the day I visited. I literally cried (but I did ride the old Mean Streak and it was a scary experience) so you can imagine how excited I am to finally cross so many bucket list coasters off my list. Does anyone know if this weekend will be cray cray busy?! Does the price of FL+ go up those days because of the Halloween theming?? Any tips for navigating the park would be much appreciated. 

Probably a good question for the Cedar Point thread.

 

 

[prozach626]

1 hour ago, leftcoaster said:

Visiting CP October 1st and 2nd (Sat and Sun). My 2nd time visiting. First was 2007 and MF wasn't open the day I visited. I literally cried (but I did ride the old Mean Streak and it was a scary experience) so you can imagine how excited I am to finally cross so many bucket list coasters off my list. Does anyone know if this weekend will be cray cray busy?! Does the price of FL+ go up those days because of the Halloween theming?? Any tips for navigating the park would be much appreciated. 

who?

[Manic Monte]

Sky high parking is an old trick. Universal does this also. Raise parking to push people into buying an annual pass that includes parking. 

Unfortunately,  this Selim dude has heavily overestimated the current interest level of Six Flags.

On the plus side, I haven't enjoyed SFMM this much in years! So there's that...

[jarmor]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:50 PM, prozach626 said:

I really like the overall picture of keeping unruly kids out, and offering a higher quality family product that comes at a higher price tag. Which swimming pool do I want to go to? The public pool for $2 a person? Or, the $100 a month private pool family membership, where everything is well maintained and the people respect each other? If you act like a shit, your membership is revoked.

Better product. Higher price. I get it. I want it.

But, typically that would come with improving the product first, then raising the prices to meet the improvements. They can't hike the prices and justify it by saying they're offering 'less' shitty food, and less people will be at the park. "We planted four new flower beds, painted the shitters, and took away a family event. Pay more and come to our park!"

The issue I have with this is paying more equates  better (behaved) customers and that is just not the case.  I guarantee that if you asked anyone to pick and they will pick the 100 option over the 2 dollar option, especially if it's for a family of 4.  Part of the problem is making assumptions about people, specifically people we consider poor and feel they are the first to cause problems in parks.  You simply cannot price people out because people will afford what they feel they can and should.  Plenty of people are being exposed to more things due to these influencers parks.places themselves affording more visibility.  Even homeless people have smart phone with internet.  

When it comes to six flags parks, I feel it will take a lot, i mean A LOT to overhaul the experience.  WE are talking about a chain that literally throws roller coasters on top of parking lots an call it a day, but then wonder why they attract "bad" customers.  From removing asphalt to overhauling food choices to limiting attendance/pass sales.  Go back to the original reason the parks were made, to be unique an celebrate the history of wherever the park is, the 6 flags that ruled the area.  Of course that can't be done outside the original parks but every area has history, tap into it.  Bottom line, give people something to respect and they are less likely to treat your park like the thunderdome or a glorified babysitter.  

But to sum it up, you can't out price derelicts. 

[prozach626]

Sometimes I like to pretend like harsh realities don't exist, too. It makes me feel like a better person, and I can lecture others about their ignorance.

No one is saying there aren't greater societal issues that exist worldwide, but it's not up to Six Flags to change that. They can't be blamed for recognizing that low income has a direct repeatedly confirmed association with violent crime, and adapt their business strategy toward the prevention of violent crime within their parks.

It's a stupid analogy, but go to Walmart and go to Target. Which one has higher prices. Which one has more pleasant clientele. 

[jarmor]

It's not so much as the higher prices but what is being offered compared to what people want.  Target, to me is bland and don't offer a lot of the cool stuff I find at local stores and I go to walmart for convenience.  If something is at target, and a person wants it, they will go to target and get it, regardless of the price.  Money is literally no longer an object to a lot of people as the world has become more accessible.

 

Bottom line, if six flags offered a better product, maybe people would respect the parks more.  Charging me more for the same wont do it.

[Manic Monte]

There is a certain amount of reality in Play here as well. You can't offer a better product without raising prices, and you can't raise prices with offering a better product.  So what do you do? Nothing? Keep selling cheap season passes and a cheap experience?

[jarmor]

YOu can gradually raise the price while you are gradually improving the product.  Charging 30-40 is not gradually improving the parking experience when you don't offer trams, shade or even an eveningly paved lot.  Look how long it took to add a restroom near superman and batman at six flags america.  Too many things that would enhance the guest experience have been too long ignored and you just cant say ok we want to consider ourselves in the league of disney and universal so pay us more and we will provide new benches.

 

I just feel dejected because it feels six flags is making it seem like they parks have become city dumps due to the customers while they turned their rides into advertisements, tapped IP's that interest teens and ignore creating a family experience like they use to before they started buying up parks and lost their way.

[grsupercity]

Would have been a good year to really update expand and improve the bugs bunny kids areas 

[Manic Monte]

18 hours ago, jarmor said:

YOu can gradually raise the price while you are gradually improving the product.  Charging 30-40 is not gradually improving the parking experience when you don't offer trams, shade or even an eveningly paved lot.  Look how long it took to add a restroom near superman and batman at six flags america.  Too many things that would enhance the guest experience have been too long ignored and you just cant say ok we want to consider ourselves in the league of disney and universal so pay us more and we will provide new benches.

 

I just feel dejected because it feels six flags is making it seem like they parks have become city dumps due to the customers while they turned their rides into advertisements, tapped IP's that interest teens and ignore creating a family experience like they use to before they started buying up parks and lost their way.

Well the CEO has access to more information about the parks than we do.

[jarmor]

And we see how that is working lol. . .

[Manic Monte]

1 minute ago, jarmor said:

And we see how that is working lol. . .

He'll have to make some adjustments for sure. But I think he's on the right track. The company needs a shift, and perhaps it needs to happen more gradually,  but I'll give another year to see how/if his long term plan works out.

 

 

[prozach626]

I wouldn't say on the right track. I agree with the business strategy, but the execution was shit.

[ricklap77]

I think by having lower attendance but those guests paying more is probably more profitable for SF. They will probably save on maintenance of the rides by having less cycles.  They might need a bit less employees so again saving money.

[KBrylczyk]

6 hours ago, ricklap77 said:

They will probably save on maintenance of the rides by having less cycles.

It is physically impossible for Six Flags to cycle rides less than they were.

[Manic Monte]

As much as people hate Six Flags, you would think that they would be happy to watch this guy burn the whole enterprise down.

[prozach626]

People secretly love it.

And to think they tried to buy Cedar Fair not long ago...

[AmyUD06]

58 minutes ago, prozach626 said:

People secretly love it.

And to think they tried to buy Cedar Fair not long ago...

I'm convinced that was just a scheme to increase their stock prices and was never a serious offer. I hope LOL. 

[rachelmadcow]

On 8/17/2022 at 6:42 AM, prozach626 said:

*Double post due to delay*

  

Right, but there's one thing... No one who goes to Magic Mountain knows, or gives a shit that Six Flags Over Texas got a new ride style before them. 

"Stratification" seems to exist when you compare parks like Magic Mountain to Saint Louis. Or, are they both getting cutting edge attractions?

 

Cedar Fair manages to retain CP as a destination park, luring people from around the globe really. If what you're saying mattered then Cedar Fair would have made i305 taller than MF. I think they only made Fury taller bc the layout was supposed to work in a certain plot of land, making it shorter would've messed up their plans to have the ride go under the pathway into the Trombone turn or whatever its called. 

St Louis is a wonderful city and I love the Ozarks, but they simply do not have the customer base to support a cutting-edge ride. There is no reason why STL should get anything similar to SFMM. Ex; SFMM should get a 200' Mack powersplash and SFSTL can get an all-new Intamin rapids ride. Something like that. 

You're actually making me do this; 

PINNACLE - International Draw, GP plan vacations to visit exclusively. Only cutting-edge brand new rides

- SFMM

PRESTIGE - Super-Regional Draw, GP will go out of their way to include this park in their vacation. Cutting edge brand new rides only after SFMM receives it

- SFOT

- SFOG

- SFGAM

- SFGADV

- SFOM 

- LARONDE 

PREMIER  - Regional Draw, GP won't go out of their way to go to this park and will go in their free-time. Virtually no cutting edge brand new rides unless relocated from a Prestige or Pinnacle park. 

- SFSTL 

- SFDK 

- SFFT

- SFNE 

OBVIOUSLY I dont have access to SF internal documents, this could be shifted around depending on attendance. We also need the zip codes of those who attend to get a better idea of the regional impact. 

 

[rachelmadcow]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:38 AM, jarmor said:

 

But to sum it up, you can't out price derelicts. 

Yes you can. 

[rachelmadcow]

On 8/18/2022 at 6:35 PM, jarmor said:

YOu can gradually raise the price while you are gradually improving the product.  Charging 30-40 is not gradually improving the parking experience when you don't offer trams, shade or even an eveningly paved lot.  Look how long it took to add a restroom near superman and batman at six flags america.  Too many things that would enhance the guest experience have been too long ignored and you just cant say ok we want to consider ourselves in the league of disney and universal so pay us more and we will provide new benches.

 

I just feel dejected because it feels six flags is making it seem like they parks have become city dumps due to the customers while they turned their rides into advertisements, tapped IP's that interest teens and ignore creating a family experience like they use to before they started buying up parks and lost their way.

Its likely that in order to secure funding the lenders required six flags to improve their income forecasts in some way. Raising the price was an easy way to do that. 

Turning their rides into advertisements was the first indicator that SF is not very liquid and is probably scraping by. Rather than continue to scrape by the new CEO is going to make the company thrive again (hopefully). 

I expect huge investments into six flags properties actually.