Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[robbalvey]

Perhaps now we'll see a reversal of many of the former regime's assinine policies such as preffered parking & mandatory fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo at major rides thus turning them into pay attractions?

To be fair, I wouldn't recommend that any of the parks do a reversal on any of the "good things" that Shapiro did. And yes, I consider the lockers, the train wraps, and the advertizing to be good things. These are what brought the company a lot of money. And the company NEEDS money.

 

Niether Snyder nor Shapiro really knew what they were doing when they ran the company....

I agree. What they did was bring the company cash from corporate partnerships, which, IMO, is a GREAT thing to do. What they failed to do is increase attendance. At least significantly.

 

For example, Thomas Town does NOT fit into parks like Six Flags Magic Mountain. Let's be honest here. In a market where you have Disneyland and Knott's Camp Snoopy, installing a "train ride" and re-theming one of your already existing Bugs Bunny World coasters does *NOT* make a "new themed land."

 

And the lack of anyone that steps foot into Thomas Town is all the "proof in the pudding" you need.

 

They need someone at the top who can manage BOTH the corporate partnerships AND develop attractions that are a good fit for the parks they are installing them in.

 

I feel that Shapiro did an AWESOME job with #1 but didn't know how to go #2.

 

And one final thing - stop with the f**king comments about the lockers! Busch Gardens does this, Cedar Fair does this, and yes, Universal does this too (they just make you *think* it's a better deal for giving you that first hour free, but has anyone taken a close look as to what the rules on Universal's locker policy really is? It's actually much more lucrative than Six Flags.)

 

It's *NOT* a Six Flags thing. IMO, if you're one of the people who are bashing Six Flags and Six Flags only for their locker policy then you are a complete idiot and you have ZERO clue what you're talking about and you're just mentioning it to see your words in print. If you don't understand your words, DON'T WRITE THEM!!!

 

--Robb "And no, I'm not changing the word filter. So don't even ask!" Alvey

Edited May 12, 2010 by robbalvey

[Hercules]

Robb - Can you change the word filter?

 

I can't say that I am shocked hearing this, but I guess slightly surprised might be the best way to put it. I fully agree with everything that Robb said above. Snyder and Shapiro did exactly what they know how to do best, and that is bring in revenue through various sources and partnerships. However, the problem was that attendance was soaring as a result of it. Granted, it was a fairly short period of time, and I would like to think that there was a plan set to help with that, but when the company is in such shambles, changes need to be made. I am interested to see how this plays out, as I'm sure everyone else is.

[WildStangAlex]

I'm shocked to see both go so hastily, but having the guy from Paramount could actually be pretty good. I absolutely loved King's Island's themed attractions: Italian Job, Flight of Fear, Tomb Raider, when they were King's Island. If he can bring the similar thought process to Six Flags, that would be amazing! I also feel like he'd be willing to do something about the insane parking prices.

[Capitalize]

Which Cedar Fair and Busch parks/rides have the lockers? I know BGT used to have them for all coasters a few years back, but during my last visit that was no longer the policy.

[cfc]

I feel that Shapiro did an AWESOME job with #1 but didn't know how to go #2.

 

Perhaps he needs to add more fiber to his diet.

[robbalvey]

Which Cedar Fair and Busch parks/rides have the fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo? I know BGT used to have them for all coasters a few years back, but during my last visit that was no longer the policy.

They ALL do. If you didn't see them at BGT, you must have just missed them. I know I had to spend about $3 on lockers during my recent visit to BGW. I didn't mind at all.

 

--Robb

 

EDIT - the BGT lockers are still there. During our visit in October, if you had any sort of bag, you were told they MUST be put in the locker or left with a non-rider. I still do not understand why people are babies and continue to cry over this. Here's an idea - if you don't like the locker policy LEAVE YOUR CRAP IN THE CAR!!!!

 

Lockers/Storage - Single-use lockers are located near Congo River Rapids, Gwazi, Kumba, Montu, Scorpion, Stanley Falls and Tanganyika Tidal Wave.

And they were also at ShieKra.

Edited May 12, 2010 by robbalvey

[Skycoastin Steve]

The way I see this whole thing is pretty simple. Shapiro did a noble job fixing the butchery that Premier did on the chain, and he should be commended for it. At this point, it's time for them to get some fresh ideas and new leadership to keep moving forward rather than getting complacent and possibly falling back in the rut they were in before. I think Cedar Fair could learn something from this, although I think Kinzel is close to finally retiring as it is.

 

EDIT:

Here's an idea - if you don't like the fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo policy LEAVE YOUR CRAP IN THE CAR!!!!

 

That's pretty much the long and the short of it right there. How much crap do you really need inside the park with you? I bring my wallet, phone, and car key with me into the park and keep them in cargo pockets, and I do just fine.

[YoshiFan]

I just hope the new operators stop closing down sections of parks and having so many SBNO rides and ride removals. It would be nice to see Old Country with the bumpers cars and music express reopen at Great Adventure

[Guy T. Koepp]

I think this is a very interesting decision. I think this guy did an admirable job with the Paramount parks.

 

I always think a little shake up in upper management is always a good thing. It lets them know they're not infallible.

 

Guy "History will be the final decision on if this is a good thing or not." Koepp

[Capitalize]

Which Cedar Fair and Busch parks/rides have the fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo? I know BGT used to have them for all coasters a few years back, but during my last visit that was no longer the policy.

They ALL do. If you didn't see them at BGT, you must have just missed them. I know I had to spend about $3 on fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo during my recent visit to BGW. I didn't mind at all.

 

--Robb

 

EDIT - the BGT fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo are still there. During our visit in October, if you had any sort of bag, you were told they MUST be put in the fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo or left with a non-rider. I still do not understand why people are babies and continue to cry over this. Here's an idea - if you don't like the fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo policy LEAVE YOUR CRAP IN THE CAR!!!!

 

fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo/Storage - Single-use fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo are located near Congo River Rapids, Gwazi, Kumba, Montu, Scorpion, Stanley Falls and Tanganyika Tidal Wave.

And they were also at ShieKra.

 

Thanks for clarifying, my last visit was well over 2 years ago, and the last visit before then was 2 years prior. So clearly things change frequently.

 

As you suggest, I avoid the annoyance while in the parks by not bringing anything with me that won't fit in a zipped pocket. However, that does become an annoyance when in the past I would enjoy bringing a small bag to videotape the parks without an added fee. But whatever, doesn't really matter either way.

[traincrossin]

Official Six Flags Press Release:

http://investors.sixflags.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=61629&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1425986

 

Al Weber to Serve as President and Interim CEO of Six Flags

 

Company Well-Positioned for Success under New Leadership as Busy Summer Season Begins

 

Board to Initiate Search for Permanent CEO

 

NEW YORK – May 12, 2010 – Six Flags Entertainment Corporation (“Six Flags”) today announced that Alexander “Al” Weber, Jr., former President and CEO of Paramount Parks, Inc., has been named President and Interim Chief Executive Officer, effective immediately. The Company is retaining a leading executive search firm and will consider both internal and external candidates to serve as Chief Executive Officer on a permanent basis.

 

“I am excited to have this opportunity to serve as President and Interim Chief Executive Officer of Six Flags,” said Weber. “The Company has made great strides to improve park operations and has significantly reduced its outstanding debt, paving the way for Six Flags to continue investing in its operations to provide an even more enjoyable experience for the whole family.”

 

Weber continued, “I thank Six Flags’ dedicated employees for their commitment to the Company and to providing guests with friendly, safe and clean services at all of our parks. Six Flags has been entertaining families and has been an important part of the communities in which it operates for nearly fifty years. Today, the Company is stronger than ever, with a solid financial position and a positive outlook for the upcoming summer season. The Company is poised for continued growth and success and I look forward to working with the Board of Directors, management team and all of the Company’s employees to capitalize on the opportunities ahead.”

 

Six Flags’ recent accomplishments include:

Outstanding customer satisfaction: Six Flags has achieved all-time high guest approval ratings based on product offering, atmosphere, value, employee service and safety.

World-class facilities: The Company has upgraded and invested in all of the parks and added numerous family friendly rides and attractions, and today the parks are in great condition.

 

Focus on family:

Six Flags has become more family friendly through the creation of a more diversified family entertainment experience, with activities that appeal to all age groups.

 

Commitment to the community:

The Company has implemented a company-wide green initiative across its theme park and water park locations, and through its “Six Flags Friends” program, provides community service, supports non-profit organizations and grants educational scholarships.

Financial strength: Six Flags’ recently completed balance sheet restructuring to reduce the Company’s outstanding debt by 60%, making Six Flags one of the least levered companies in the theme park industry and allowing for continued investment in parks and attractions.

 

The Company also today announced Mark Shapiro, the Company’s former President and Chief Executive Officer and a member of the Board of Directors, is no longer with the Company.

 

About Al Weber

Al Weber has 40 years of experience in the regional theme park business. He has successfully implemented new business strategies, organizational improvements and growth initiatives. Previously, Weber served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Palace Entertainment, LLC, the largest water park and family entertainment center company in the United States. Prior to that, Weber served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Paramount Parks, Inc from 2002 to 2006. Weber received a Bachelor’s Degree in Liberal Arts and Master’s Degree in Business Administration from Xavier University, and a Doctorate in Organization and Management from Capella University.

 

About Six Flags

Six Flags Entertainment Corporation, a publicly-traded corporation headquartered in New York City, is the largest regional theme park operator in the world with 13 major parks in the United States, Mexico and Canada and approximately 800 rides (including more than 120 roller coasters).

 

Forward Looking Statements

The information contained in this news release, other than historical information, consists of forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended. These statements may involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in such statements. These risks and uncertainties include, among others, the potential adverse impact of the Company’s bankruptcy filing under chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code, which occurred in June 2009 (the “Chapter 11 Filing”), on the Company’s operations, management and employees; customer response to the Chapter 11 Filing; and the risk factors or uncertainties listed from time to time in the Company’s filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC”) and with the Bankruptcy Court in connection with the Company's Chapter 11 Filing. In addition, important factors, including factors impacting attendance, local conditions, events, disturbances and terrorist activities, risk of accidents occurring at theme parks, adverse weather conditions, general financial and credit market conditions, economic conditions (including consumer spending patterns), competition, pending, threatened or future legal proceedings and other factors could cause actual results to differ materially from the Company’s expectations. Although the Company believes that the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are reasonable, it can give no assurance that such expectations will prove to have been correct. Reference is made to a more complete discussion of forward-looking statements and applicable risks contained under the captions “Cautionary Note Regarding Forward-Looking Statements” and “Risk Factors” in the Company’s Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2009, and its other filings and submissions with the SEC, each of which are available free of charge on the Company’s website http://www.sixflags.com.

 

 

I really didn't see this coming. Things have definitely improved in the parks under the Shapiro reign so I really don't know where they'll go from here. I can only hope for the best. Does anyone know if the reasoning behind Shapiro's removal?

Edited May 12, 2010 by robbalvey

[rcdude]

I wasn't expecting this to happen, but I am not entirely surprised by it. Shapiro has been doing a number of great things for the parks, but it almost seems like the direction he was taking would have caused problems in the long run. If the parks stopped adding thril rides, or severely cut back on them, they would probably lose customers who are expecting that type of thing. Six Flags, however, cannot just be mega roller coasters and nothing else, as that has been proven to not work already. Hopefully they can find a good middle ground so they will appeal to all ages, which is kind of what the Paramount parks did.

[Zingoman]

How can you not give Shapiro a little credit? Where I give Shapiro credit, is in many places.

 

He was so involved in the parks and kept in touch personally with the fan bass with his blogger call sessions. He was very enthusiastic and candid.

 

He cleaned up the parks! Look around! It's impressive how far they've come. Refurbishments to everything from restrooms, to midways, to gift shops, to rides.

 

So much money was spent on neglected maintenance. How about getting rides to run properly again, and getting rid of the ones that couldn't?

 

He put in new shows and entertainment, and got the costumed characters back out on the midways.

 

He lowered some prices, and put out programs like Funatics rewards, ect...

 

He saw the value in reinvesting in significant attractions rather than ditching them like X, or Texas Giant, or even Little Dipper.

 

He got the employee moral sky high comparatively and the level of service is far exceeding previous seasons.

 

He didn't spend millions on the latest Intamin rocket coasters, or B&M dive machines, but the parks already have thrill rides. He looked at the whole picture and tried to restore a little balance to the parks. Look what Magic Mountain was doing for years. The park was falling apart and yet they kept building things like Scream, and Tatsu. It wasn't working.

 

Oh, and on a little side note, please can we stop putting Cedar Fair on a pedestal? Anyone who has worked for that company knows that they are going by the way side lately. They are becoming the OLD Six Flags. Six Flags is NOT what it was before. Why does everyone refuse to recognize this?

Edited May 12, 2010 by Zingoman

[Sir Clinksalot]

I'll tell you one park that needs to strictly enforce it's locker policy is Knott's.

 

Get rid of the bin's in the station. Their operations are bad enough without having to spend 2-3 minutes per cycle having people put their belongings in the bins, getting people seated, having to unlock the restraints because some moron in row number 4 didn't think the policy applied to him.

 

I just don't understand people who have a problem with the lockers. These are obviously people who never had anything fly out of their pockets/hands while riding a coaster. People who don't remember the days when there were no locker policies and how ridiculously slow the operations were. People who don't remember back in the day when people actually thought about what they had with them and didn't take stuff in the parks.

 

I don't recall even having a need for a locker policy in the 80's/early 90's. Granted, the coasters weren't as crazy, but still. I don't recall people bringing full backpacks full of crap into the parks or having people complain about having to use the lockers at the front. And let's not forget, back then you had to pay every time you opened your locker, not just one fee for the all-day ones.

 

If you don't like the Lockers:

 

A: Don't bring in crap that you have to put in the Lockers

B: If you must bring in crap, leave them with a non-riding member of your party

C: Get an all-day locker

D: Realize that maybe you shouldn't be going to parks if you can't handle spending $5-$7 per day on lockers

E: Don't complain about the cost of the lockers if you are unable to follow rules A,B,C and D

 

Gregg "I've even started using the Lockers to place my keys and cell-phone in because I don't want to lose them" Condon

[RoCo]

My only major beef with the outgoing management is the train wrap advertising. I know they need the benjamins, and I'm sure those deals are lucrative, and I know Six Flags isn't really trying to be Disney so who cares if ride "themes" are sullied, and I know this sort of thing is happening just about everywhere else in the world, but sheesh... Just seems hopelessly crass.

 

But if SFMM is any indication, those guys did a lot right. Anyhoo, it is good to see people with real theme park management under their belt taking the reins.

 

(Also, I FINALLY understand the fluffy, fluffy bunnies... thing!)

[PriestofSyrinx]

How can you not give Shapiro a little credit? Where I give Shapiro credit, is in many places.

 

He cleaned up the parks! Look around! It's impressive how far they've come. Refurbishments to everything from restrooms, to midways, to gift shops, to rides.

 

He saw the value in reinvesting in significant attractions rather than ditching them like X, or Texas Giant, or even Little Dipper.

 

There I believe were Shapiro's greatest Ideas for the chain in whole.

 

I too liked Shapiro, He cut the fat and got down to revenue increases. Hopefully his good ideas will stay, while some new fresh ideas will come in. (hopefully no Son Of Beast gets built at SFMM/SFGadv)

 

Im still sooo happy that Snyder is gone though!!!

[ebl]

First, I agree with what Robb said regarding people carrying excessive stuff. I always laugh at people standing in line trying to figure out how they're going to hang onto their purse or other large object during the ride---especially X2 And I always suggest that a mere $1 investment is totally worth their peace of mind. At least it is for me. And since I have a season pass, I've already paid nothing to park or get in. A few bucks a day to keep my stuff safe really is money saved.

 

SFMM also needs to get rid of their in-station cubbies because people are still using them.

 

Anyway, we always heard that Shapiro was a big coaster fan, so we know that Six Flags parks would continue to build new ones over the years---just not as often as SFMM did in the late '90s/early 2000s. Big rides draw crowds, so Weber will most likely continue the trend of adding them.

 

One other factor in this is the recession of the last few years. Attendance numbers everywhere are down and will remain so until this crisis blows over.

 

"Perhaps he needs to add more fiber to his diet."

 

I have, Chuck, and it does help.

 

Eric

[Reon]

I would just like to say how ironic/awesome/hilarious it is to have the guy who sold his own chain to Cedar Fair as the new CEO of the other major amusment park chain in the USA. I know that the Paramount buyout had to do with Paramount and not the chain, and I'm sure this is a different situation, but I smell Cedar Fair conspiracy....eventually.

 

-Jared (the guy who lives at KI and CP anyways) Becker

[MidtownCoaster]

While I can see the conspiracy theory, I don't know how likely that is. The candidate pool for managers of a large theme park chain is pretty limited if you want experience. To have the leader of a successful chain that was bought out (regardless of his role in that) leaves an opportunity that is somewhat rare in this niche market. So, it makes a lot of sense.

 

As for direction, I think it's exciting. I think Paramount had some great development that could be instilled into Six Flags (in an albeit different manner), and I think Shapiro had simply run out of ideas. He did some great things. He also weathered some incredibly tough tourism times and some bad PR issues, all coming after another company did not do as well with the parks. His creativity and enthusiasm likely is (and should be) used up, so time for some fresh blood. I'm jumping on the "good because it's different" train and thank Shapiro for what he has done!

[jedimaster1227]

I think that this is a very interesting move on the part of Six Flags. I think that (as has been said before) Mark Shapiro left a positive impression on the Six Flags culture and the direction in which the company was finally moving. But, like has been said before, Mark Shapiro was able to create some great partnership/sponsorship opportunities that ultimately benefited the company's bottom line, but not the guest experience. I would have like to see him continue with the company in a marketing or corporate partnerships division, but I'm not sure he would have taken the downgrade had it been offered to him.

 

As for the former CEO of the Paramount Parks coming onboard, I'm definitely interested to see how things go with the move. The Paramount Parks were doing pretty well by the time they were bought by Cedar Fair, which shows a positive motion on the leadership/management side, but the sale changed much of that. I'm not one of those theorists that believe's he's been appointed to facilitate some massive Cedar Fair/Apollo/Six Flags merger, so I won't go there, but that being said, I could certainly see more "Kentucky Kingdom" and "Astroworld" situations arising given the trigger-happy sales nature many of these leaders seem to be having with their underperforming and overperforming parks.

[fatdaddy]

Problem with l0¢

 

OK, so maybe I'm whining, but when enough people all whine at the same time, it means somethings wrong.

 

That said, i know nothing about theme park management and I'm actually surprised shapiro is out. I thought he was doing good with what he had to work with. As far as Thomas Town goes, the problem was that it was half assed, they need to retheme the whole area like CGA did when the put in planet snoopy. There was an opportunity to bring new life to the kids area and they blew it. But, had it been done correctly it would have been huge, instead people come and are disappointed. The idea was good, poorly executed, but good. Imho.

 

They should hire Theme Park Review as ceo, not just Robb, the whole damn site. We could run it as a collective, like the borg on star trek. Apparently we know everything anyway, or at least thats what we think.

[Reon]

I'm not saying its a bad thing. I loved KI back during its Paramount years, and I can't wait to see what he'll do with all the Six Flags parks...I was just pointing out that this is an interesting turn of events.

[itsasamccormick]

WOW.! That is something i didn't think would happen, he seemed to be doing good with Six Flags! Anyways, I think it could be a good thing he has left. Weber has great experience (Something Shapiro didn't have) and he led a very successful theme park chain. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I think it will be for the better!

 

Another thing- Why is he called an Interim CEO? When will they name him the official CEO?

 

PS- I for real don't get the Fluffy Fluffy bunny.... thing.

[ebl]

I hope they keep serving Coca-Cola products and not those made by Pepsi.

 

Eric

[robbalvey]

Problem with l0¢

The thing is, and I hear you, and it all makes sense...BUT...you have to look at it this way. Buying that souvenier bottle and having to pay $1 every time the lockers have to hold it for you, is still MUCH MUCH cheaper than buying a large size soda a half dozen times a day.

 

I think the only major corporate park chain that really doesn't implement any kind of lockers to hold your stuff is Disney...but most of their rides are tame enough to where you can take your items with you. I mean, I've taken my freakin' backpack onto California Screamin' with me before!

 

You also gotta remember that not only parks, but just about EVERY business is out there to make money, even if it means they have to nickel and dime you. I mean, I'll pay about $6 for a beer at our local Elephant Bar...that same beer that I can probably walk across the parking lot to the grocery store and buy for $2.

 

I won't even get into the insane price hikes for simple things you buy at concert venues or sporting events. I mean, Green Day sells their simple 2-color shirtsfor $25 each. I can tell you with confidence that they could sell that shirt for $10 and still make money off it!

 

And finally...if a chain like Six Flags needs money to survive, I would much rather GLADLY pay $1 to stuff the lockers (which this is a personal choice, remember) than see any more parks meet Mr. Wrecking Ball.

 

--Robb