Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[Hercules]

When SFA Regular shows up in a thread, you know the party has started.

[Tiburon503]

However, you are correct that as a public company, fiscal oversight is are huge. However, I don't think the fiscal turnaround could start at the company until front line attitude and appearance changed. I think it was a losing proposition from the get go to change both in the time frame Shapiro had when also saddled with so much debt.

Had Red Zone presented their takeover case on that premise; Kieren Burke and Premier Parks would have remained in control. It would have been easier for the board to direct Mr. Burke and the company to shore up the company's in-park experience; over occurring the painful cost of a hostile takeover. Mark Shapiro's "top down" management proved no better than Kieren Burke's "bottom up" strategy in the end. The company went bankrupt.

 

As a person who frequented Great Adventure in the late 1980's; I can state for the record Premier Parks never ran a park as badly as Wesray Capital did. Great Adventure truly was at its worst. The park was so dirty, it almost lost its food license. Had that occurred, it would have closed. That's why "Shockwave" went to Six Flags Great America. Ray Williams saved Great Adventure.

[Wes]

How do we know Shapiro was forced out? Seeing as he was close with Snyder, maybe Shapiro opted to leave due to Synder's decreased presence in the company.

[Tiburon503]

Let's see, he left the company IMMEDIATELY without so much as a quote in the outgoing press release. Had he left on his terms, it would not be 2 weeks after emerging from the bankruptcy. Mr. Shapiro in his personal outgoing email expressed a sadness about leaving; while disclosing an "amicable" decision to depart with the Board of Directors. Amicable is corporate parlance for "firing". Do you think the decision would be "amicable" if Steve Jobs decided to leave Apple? I guarantee his outgoing press release would be heaping praise as well as the board's lament in his departure.

[Wes]

That could be construed as a "F You Guys, I'm Outtie" though, too. There's probably a bunch of backroom dealings that we'll obviously probably never know anything about. The wording of the press release and stuff is just weird and got me thinking.

[DBJ]

I wonder if the decision to close SFKK also played a role? There was no reason to close the park prior to finding a buyer if the park was still a profitable property at the end of the season.

 

I

[Tiburon503]

That could be construed as a "F You Guys, I'm Outtie" though, too. There's probably a bunch of backroom dealings that we'll obviously probably never know anything about. The wording of the press release and stuff is just weird and got me thinking.

Again, if it were an "F U Guys, I'm Audi 5000!", Mr. Shapiro would not have waited two weeks post bankruptcy to do this. It would have been immediately upon emergence where his $3M purported bonus would have kicked in. Why would you leave a company, when it's finally in a decent position to make moves (as he stated in his post bankruptcy Facebook message)? Again, in the corporate world, it's the way things are done. Same with Michael Eisner. Same with Gil Amelio when he "left" (fired from) Apple. It's obviously Mark spent his final two weeks at Six Flags trying to save his job. He did not want to lose it or quit.

 

Mark knew Daniel Snyder was done weeks ago. If he left over Mr. Snyder's departure, he would have followed Six Flags Board Member and RedZone partner Dwight C. Schar (who departed immediately upon emergence).

[Hercules]

I understand your stance, but really that is all speculation. We really have no clue what happened without someone coming out and just saying what actually did.

[Jew]

The whole thing seems strange...He obviously left under some less than ideal circumstances. Is he leaving because he is taking the money and running? Fired? About to have something negative come to light?

 

It doesn't really seem like it's in the best interests of the company to replace him so abruptly with an interim person. What's an interim guy going to do that Mark Shapiro couldn't have done? Doesn't look good for the company when the guy who has become the face of the "new" Six Flags to investors takes off with such little fanfare.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Jew

[KDCOASTERFAN]

Maybe parks just need to implement Flash Pass better?

 

At SFOT, the Flash pass line merges with the regular line just before the station in most cases. Exceptions that I can think of are Bobsled, Gold River, and the log flume (Flash Pass only uses Flume 2, though, can't get on Flume 1 with it).

 

But that won't work at SFA,which uses ride exits as their flashpass entrances,SFOT & the other parks have been adding big E-ticket rides(ie coasters) in the years since flashpass was implemented with that in mind with regards to how the queue lines are designed & built while SFA has not seeing as how they've lost more rides than they've installed over the course of the last ten years.

[Tiburon503]

The whole thing seems strange...He obviously left under some less than ideal circumstances. Is he leaving because he is taking the money and running? Fired? About to have something negative come to light?

 

It doesn't really seem like it's in the best interests of the company to replace him so abruptly with an interim person. What's an interim guy going to do that Mark Shapiro couldn't have done? Doesn't look good for the company when the guy who has become the face of the "new" Six Flags to investors takes off with such little fanfare.

It's not strange at all if you look at the financial end of Mark Shapiro's tenure. He brought the company to bankruptcy and almost forced a liquidation. His revenue initiatives failed. Mark Shapiro presented no plan to turn around this troubled asset, nor has he accomplished such a feat in any sector prior to. Circumstances regardless, the patient died on his watch. That's the bottom line and that's how the bondholders see it. Mark Shapiro may have been the face of Six Flags to the enthusiast crowd, but I seriously doubt anyone in the G.P. knew him like they did Michael Eisner in his heyday or Steve Jobs.

 

To reiterate:

Mark Shapiro was ultimately fired by the new Board of Directors, because his initiatives failed to demonstrate real growth for the company. "Six Flags Media Networks", the department responsible for many of the corporate sponsorships and advertising barely registered a blip. In-park advertising equated ~1% of earnings IIRC, and the advertising market has been "soft" during the current recession. Guest acquisition came at the price of "giving away the gate", with the hopes of increased spending covering the steep discounts (as opposed to the huge ticket, concession, and parking increases implemented in 2006). Six Flags emerged from bankruptcy with a sizable $1.1B debt (roughly close to Cedar Fair's $1.76B figure), so I doubt they'll be going on any major spending sprees (especially without the investment clout the publicly traded Cedar Fair possesses). Mark's strategy of fast talking, hard walking was not going to cut it with bondholders. He destroyed their positions (and those of every single shareholder) in the former Six Flags Theme Parks. They swapped debt for equity as a last resort. Mark Shapiro almost sent Six Flags into an automatic "Chapter 7" liquidation, and bondholders took the debt for equity swap as it was the better deal in this soft real-estate market. In four years (financially), Mark did nothing to fix the bottom line, and his few attempts (divestures, in-park advertising) were dismal failures. Let's not forget the SIZEABLE loses Mark Shapiro was hiding that became public during the bankruptcy proceedings either.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Tiburon503

[Houston Thrills]

Maybe parks just need to implement Flash Pass better?

 

At SFOT, the Flash pass line merges with the regular line just before the station in most cases. Exceptions that I can think of are Bobsled, Gold River, and the log flume (Flash Pass only uses Flume 2, though, can't get on Flume 1 with it).

 

But that won't work at SFA,which uses ride exits as their flashpass entrances,SFOT & the other parks have been adding big E-ticket rides(ie coasters) in the years since flashpass was implemented with that in mind with regards to how the queue lines are designed & built while SFA has not seeing as how they've lost more rides than they've installed over the course of the last ten years.

 

SFOT's only received 2 Flash Pass rides since it's been implemented, I believe (STOP in 2003, THBS in 2008). These rides both have dedicated Flash Pass lines, but the other rides use existing or modified line/station entrances.

[YoshiFan]

Same with Batman at Great Adventure, they took part of the existing line, made another entrance for Flashpass and now the line merges at the station like the newer coasters.

[Jew]

^^^So why didn't bondholders remove him as part of their agreement, like they did with Snyder? They let him remain as a director and walk away with $3 million.

 

2009 was a rough year for the theme park business, not just Six Flags. The company was headed to bankruptcy no matter what the circumstances were. Shapiro also spearheaded licensing deals, pushed for Q-bots, VIP tours, preferred/valet parking, food vouchers, and other revenue generating items that don't add much cost. So his value is far more than the reported $52 in ad revenue that was projected for 2009.

 

Something just doesn't add up. CEO's don't just quietly leave. Let alone ones that took every chance they got to be in front of the press.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Jew

[ginzo]

^Yeah, that points more to a recent fight between Shapiro and the BOD than it does him being the scape goat for the company almost going bust. Though this is all incredibly speculative. IMO, it's reasonable to assume that he was fired.

[Jew]

^Digging deeper, I found this to be quite interesting:

 

Entertainment sources, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Shapiro maintains a close relationship with Snyder and will continue to oversee Dick Clark Productions, the television home of the Golden Globe Awards, the Academy of Country Music Awards and "American Bandstand." Red Zone Capital, Snyder's private equity firm, bought Dick Clark Productions in 2007 for $175 million in hopes of incorporating its features in Six Flags parks.

 

I can totally see why the new board would be worried about this. They already voiced their concern with the conflict of interests from the Johnny Rockets and DCP deals, so that seems like a much more logical reason than just making him the scapegoat for a bad 2009.

 

Regardless, the fact that there is no statements from either side is quite odd.

[AGLOIATHPENGUIN123]

I prefer they don't get premier rides, because that is what makes parks like SFMM so unique and fun. Other parks that are near have those premier rides and you can ride them there. SFMM has none but its cool because its a new suprise everytime you ride a new ride there.

 

Whats wrong with (Premiers). They seem like good rides to me. Joker's Jinx at SFA spent it's longest downtime in 2006 when it needed a part. But ever sense then it has been running fine. In think it could use the same prep that Poltergeist gets, given the fact that Poltergeist is a lot faster than Jinx. But other than that, I could possibly see a lot of unique attractions coming to Six Flags parks with Alexander Weber as CEO. Paramount's parks tried to build different things, to let them stand alone from other theme parks. Volcano, was very unique, given the fact that they only built one.

 

You never know, maybe one day we will see a (Premier) suspended launch. Thats if the company was willing to pay them the money to design something like that.

ooops. im sorry. I forgot what prremier rides were. I was think of them as common rides that have the same track figuration. SFMM Needs a launch ride (besides Superman) and i think premier ride would do fine. But however, i would prefer a premier ride that is new and is newer. Like poltergeist is common. same track. I want something No where added in other parks. SOmething new. Like batman and the chiller. Thats only in 1 park. SFMM needs a 1 of a kind premier ride.

[AGLOIATHPENGUIN123]

Call me paranoid but i keep thinking about if they will take out old rides like collossus or the revolution. But i don't think they would do that.

 

If you "don't think they would do that," why bring it up?

 

I'd like to issue a friendly reminder that proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation count on TPR. Occasional errors and typos are OK (we all make them), but please be more careful to avoid a string of mistakes--and there has been quite a string of such errors in this thread lately.

 

I now return you to the "Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion," which is already in progress.

wow... thanks for calling me out on that. Not that it DIDN"T MATTER OR ANYTHING! it was just a post. I'm so sorry for my grammar. i really need to go back to college

[netdvn]

Here's the deal...

 

I've head both very positive and very negative things about the former Paramount parks.

 

On the plus side, the Paramount parks did bring some great, highly-themed rides to their parks. But then on the minus side, many of the former Paramount parks 1) lost much of their original charm and 2) had many older classic rides removed/replaced.

 

I'm really hoping the second doesn't happen.

 

As for Shapiro, I think he was pushing the parks in the correct direction, focusing more on quality attractions, upgrading old rides, and getting more involved in the parks by focusing more on cleanliness and service over building huge coasters and praying for them to bring revenue to the park.

 

I just hope the new president continues in that direction (with the occasional major thrill ride) and I wish him the best of luck.

[DOCTOR DOOM!!!]

I hope we've seen the end of ... "OOOH look at this brand new rollercoaster with fire and onboard audio!!!"

 

Also when was Al Weber in charge of Paramount parks?! Was he responsible for that HUGE pile of crap sitting dormant at the front of KI?! I know it says somewhere in this thread when he took over but I can't recall it. If he was responsible for that HUGE pile of crap then maybe its best that he stay an interim CEO and not permanent CEO where he would be in a good position to start getting creative again!!!

[robbalvey]

I hope we've seen the end of ... "OOOH look at this brand new rollercoaster with fire and onboard audio!!!"

Why??? What exactly is wrong with adding effects like these when opening up a brand new coaster? I realize that things didn't work out so well for the audio on Terminator, but the fire is still very cool.

 

And I don't have a problem at all when they reburb an older coaster and give it new paint, new trains, and added special effects or theming to update it.

 

What is wrong with spending millions of dollars updating an older ride???

 

I mean, are you against "Tower of Terror 4" or the update on Star Tours as well?

 

Heck, Disney has been very successful at updating old attractions to make them "new" again or "seasonal" icons during what could be slower periods.... Everything from Autopia to Tower of Terror to Rockin' Space Mountain to Star Tours to Toy Story Mania to Captain EO to Pirates of the Carribean to Haunted Mansion to It's a Small World, etc, etc, etc....

 

I don't see a problem with updating attractions AT ALL! In fact, I'm VERY HAPPY that Six Flags chose to put some more money into rides that hadn't been touched in years.

 

--Robb

[netdvn]

I hope we've seen the end of ... "OOOH look at this brand new rollercoaster with fire and onboard audio!!!"

What's wrong with that?

 

Also when was Al Weber in charge of Paramount parks?! Was he responsible for that HUGE pile of crap sitting dormant at the front of KI?! I know it says somewhere in this thread when he took over but I can't recall it. If he was responsible for that HUGE pile of crap then maybe its best that he stay an interim CEO and not permanent CEO where he would be in a good position to start getting creative again!!!

Why does that even matter?

 

- I doubt Son of Beast was supposed to be bad on purpose. It seems that if the ride would've either been a hit-or-miss ride anyway and Paramount took a risk.

- In fact Paramount seemed to take a lot of risks during the late 90s, early 00s with rides like Stealth, Hypersonic, and Son of Beast... And even though two of the three rides didn't work out, I don't see that as a bad thing because it shows that the president is willing to experiment with new ride designs, which is something that Shapiro mentioned in his fan interview.

 

I would be more worried about seeing rides like SFGAm's Whizzer end up like its sister did.

[CoasterGuy06]

You have to realize the decision to remove the "charm" from the Paramount parks in favor of movie tie in rides/attractions was likely made by the head honchos at Viacom, who were using the parks to sell their other entertainment ventures, and not necessarily the idea of the people running Paramount Parks.

[DOCTOR DOOM!!!]

^^, ^^^ I mostly was speaking for the Bizzaro coasters, cause their was nothing wrong with them. There IS nothing wrong with updating coasters, but or the effects on actual new coasters but, update coasters that NEED it, not the best ride in the WORLD that there is nothing wrong with. I do feel that there was better ways to spend the money, especially at SFNE.

 

you've got a good point netdvn, I didn't look at it that way!

 

Doctor "needs to stop over-exaggerating" Doom

[SFA Regular]

When SFA Regular shows up in a thread, you know the party has started.

 

Funny for you to say that. Why is it a party when I show up in a thread?