The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[coasterfreak101]

^Knott's never spread a rumor...enthusiasts did.

[tigers1985]

    Screamscape: "(8/11/11) It has been awhile since any new rumors have leaked out from the Knott’s camp, as they have been very busy trying to play catch-up with Windseeker all summer, but once again the rumor of a large hyper/mega/giga coaster project in the works for the park’s next big attraction has been reaffirmed."

 

Obviously we'll never know who originally started the rumor...

[Someotherguyuser]

I really don't think Knott's is going to add a Giga. For one reason, Matt Oumiet (Sorry for slaughtering his last name) is the new head of Cedar Fair and will be trying to focus more on a family audience. Secondly....hasn't been rumor been going on since the early/mid 00's?

 

Call me crazy if you will, but I don't think Knott's is the kind of park to have a Giga. I don't want to see a thirty story monster looming over Ghost Town.

[bottom_feeder_13]

Trust me from a marketing standpoint SFMM wouldn't be doing that much by adding a giga because they already have a ride with a drop of 255 feet and they frankly are in a much more dire need of a halfway decent launch coaster than anything else, Knott's on the otherhand doesn't have any sort of really tall ride with a conventional lift and the marketing potential is enormous.

[tigers1985]

Trust me from a marketing standpoint SFMM wouldn't be doing that much by adding a giga because they already have a ride with a drop of 255 feet and they frankly are in a much more dire need of a halfway decent launch coaster than anything else, Knott's on the otherhand doesn't have any sort of really tall ride with a conventional lift and the marketing potential is enormous.

 

Didn't stop CW from getting one. I know Behemoth isnt quite 255 ft but whatever. Frankly I don't care who gets one as long as 1 of them do. We need a giga on the west coast, period.

[bottom_feeder_13]

^ Personally I think that you're totally wrong, yes I305 is a good layout but do you see a plot of land large enough to build something with that sort of twister layout at either SFMM or KBF because I don't. And I could maybe see space for a Leviathan type giga at SFMM but still can't see it happening due to both the sheer cost and the impracticality of the way it would have to be placed. Since I haven't ridden I305 yet I can't comment on it but if the giga is anything like MF I think it'll just be a world class first drop with a middle of the road rest of the ride. I don't really see why the west coast needs a giga when there are things that provide a better ride experience for less money, less space, and more importantly better marketing possibility e.g. an intamin blitz like iSpeed or Maverick would have more potential not to mention more left over cash for things like general park improvements and theming.

[tigers1985]

^ Personally, I think you need to relax. We're coaster enthusiasts, not park general managers. It's just an opinion quit analyzing things.

[tigers1985]

And btw I've been on I-305 and it's actually on quit a small plot of land, and it's not all about the drop.

[Gigalyte]

I305 sits on a 5 acre plot of land, Log Jammer sat on a 6 acre plot of land so there is plenty room to install a Giga at SFMM in Log Jammers old spot.

 

Goliath vers the Giga argument is also pointless imo and like others have stated Behemoth/Levi enough said if a park wants it they'll get it.

 

I think Knotts would get a B&M hyper before they'd get a giga, imo a Giga is just to much coaster for a park like Knotts.

[COASTER FREAK 11]

When a large coaster were to be built at Knotts, there will be plenty of room to do it. Look at Silver Bullet, its just lifted off the ground where it needs to be and goes to the ground where it can. You don't need large open spaces to build a coaster, just enough room for the footers, supports, and station.

[cfc]

I think Knotts would get a B&M hyper before they'd get a giga, imo a Giga is just to much coaster for a park like Knotts.

 

I sort of agree with this, but I've always thought that Silver Bullet was "too much coaster" for Knott's when it comes to its location in the park, anyway--at least Ghostrider fits the theming of Ghost Town better.

Edited February 9, 2012 by cfc

[QueerRudie]

I've been doing some 'homework' on Knotts as of late (planning for WCB etc.) and had the time to take a look at the overall scope of Knott's land, layout and space available. It's not pretty- at all, as the park tends to be 'lop-sided' ride wise- with seven of the nine coasters on one side of the park- and four of them intertwined like a bad knot. Realistically, the 'right side' of the park as facing the main gate is full, full and full, and I can only count Grona Lund or Blackpool's having more compact a layout for rides in the world. It is truly a marvel of engineering that they could put so much punch into so small a space.

 

That having been said, let's look at the future place for expansion realistically: With the only real open room left over Bigfoot (With some exceptions- there is Pony Distress above it in parts now- to expand will either mean going over the top of existing structures, or around the sides of the park, along the neighbourhoods surrounding on all sides. It is NOT a pretty picture for that. If they were to do some space-conservation, they would be able to maximize space, and be able to add new attractions of size without too much effort.

 

So now I've taken off the 'budget' light, and going full out for the future here, this is a totally 'blue sky' idea- and one that I think would be practical, but not necessarily price-wise.

 

First, the parking lots to the south side of the existing park boundaries would have to be 'decked out': A five story parking deck facility, similar to what Disney has, would allow for more parking, as well as for greater space to expand. Using the top level of the decks for additional park space is also an idea- look at the Adventuredome at Circus Circus there- it's built on top of the parking decks- which would give much needed space for general park attractions. Additional flats, more shops, stores and shows, and greater use of walking space for crowds.

 

Now that we have the parking decks, moving the service buildings that ring the south end of the park is the next objective. Since the parking lots are now 'self contained' in the deck structure, we can use the remaining lots for employee parking- but also for moving these structures/eyesores outside of the parks' general boundaries.

 

Wow! We've just added nearly 40 acres of land doing those steps alone- and can now move onto other projects such as larger scale coasters, etc. There's plenty of space at Knotts left... but it will require some serious relocation of stuff to use it right. There is a dire need for more 'natural' elements there, and moving some things out and around is critical in order to 'green' the park nicely and to de-crowd the existing park.

 

At least that's if I ran Knotts/Cedar Fair...

[Sir Clinksalot]

^ If they were to remove Boomerang, move Riptide, and finally count their losses on Perilous Plunge, that would open up a HUGE plot of land in that area. Use the KOD building for a queue/station and go to town.

 

They may not even have to remove Riptide or remove Boomerang. Let's face it, PP takes up a HUGE plot of land, is hardly ever open, and when it is, isn't really very popular/has terrible capacity.

 

They could even use that plot and just make Xcelerator longer. Have it continue to where PP is after the first turn around, do a few inversions, etc. There is PLENTY of speed for at least a few more elements/hundreds of feet of addtl track.

[QueerRudie]

^ If they were to remove Boomerang, move Riptide, and finally count their losses on Perilous Plunge, that would open up a HUGE plot of land in that area. Use the KOD building for a queue/station and go to town.

 

They may not even have to remove Riptide or remove Boomerang. Let's face it, PP takes up a HUGE plot of land, is hardly ever open, and when it is, isn't really very popular/has terrible capacity.

 

They could even use that plot and just make Xcelerator longer. Have it continue to where PP is after the first turn around, do a few inversions, etc. There is PLENTY of speed for at least a few more elements/hundreds of feet of addtl track.

 

Agreed completely on that... PP has been a black scar on Knotts for way too long- and it isn't that great a ride to begin with. With that out of the way, there's plenty of space left over...

 

(Now if they could happen to find the plans for Soap Box Racers again...)

[154bmag]

Instead of a giga or a hyper, why not a mega-lite?

[Xcoaster]

^ I'd say primarily marketability, with capacity and footprint as lesser reasons. We know that mega-lites are awesome, but to the average park guest it'd probably just look like another coaster (it even looks a bit like Xcelerator). A mega/giga would add some serious zazz to the park's skyline. On the other hand, a mega-lite could be marketed as a family coaster (it's about on par with Sierra Sidewinder - a small-to-medium sized coaster that delivers more than you'd expect). But really, I think the park needs a major new attraction at this point, not just a continuation of the family theme. Regarding footprint, for the standard mega-lite model it would need a fairly open spot of land, which Knott's has very little of (the only place I think one might fit is where Perilous Plunge is now).

 

As for the parking garage, I agree that this would be a fantastic solution. However, I'm pretty sure this was asked before at one of these events, and I think they said it wasn't viable in the near future. Not sure if it was just cost, or something else. Anyone remember?

[Rocket Rodder]

There's another reason that most of the coasters are on one side.... Residential homes... The noise generated from such ride systems alone (If not the systems, the RIDERS!) would be enough for... heck... a public outcry! (Well... maybe not, but then again, you never know.)

[susie zueck]

Ive never seen PP run two boats. Does PP have two boats?

[DJeXeL]

Yes but rarely runs both. 1 is usually in rehab.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

There's another reason that most of the coasters are on one side.... Residential homes... The noise generated from such ride systems alone (If not the systems, the RIDERS!) would be enough for... heck... a public outcry! (Well... maybe not, but then again, you never know.)

I'd agree with you on that, BUT Xcelerator, Perilous, Pony, Zoom, Boom, Jag, and Sidewinder are all on the side of the park that are closest to homes. A Coaster placed in the Southwest corner of the park (Bigfoot) would work if the station was somewhere near the Buffalo Nickel Arcade and the lift extended south and the layout went in to the backstage area behind BFR. Only problem is you'd have to place lift supports in the Wild Water Wilderness/Boardwalk Midway which A) Isn't that big to begin with, B) Get's really crowded during summer/Haunt due to performances in the CMST, and C) is the parade route during the Christmas events....Good luck and Godspeed to the engineer that can figure that one out.

[Jew]

Knott's has the city of Buena Park in it's back pocket (so to speak) anyways, so noise isn't a factor. The city isn't about to tell their biggest employer/revenue generator no.

[MrSum1_55]

^^^I think Knott's deserves the reward for "worst rehab pocedures", even edging out SFMM and SFDK. Remember Apoc's six month rehab? SFMM was able to completely rip out the audio box and redesign the two trains to Apocalypse in six months. Then, why does it take 7-9 months to rehab two trains on Xcelerator and Perilous Plunge? Also, Sidewinder was in 1 train mode starting close to Winter Break week, one of the most crowded weeks of the year.

 

Then again, I have never seen Silver Bullet run one train in recent years. That is a bit strange; I thought the park only had two trains.

 

^I wish some Buena Park residents would move to Santa Clara.

[SoCalCoasters]

If Knott's was to try and build another coaster back there they could definitely use the I30Sky Truss/Lift Support for the Intitial Climb...

 

After that, heck, if they fit SKyrush into Comet hollow, Knott's can fit a Giga somewhere in the back of the park. I wouldn't mind sacrificing Perlious for another coaster simply because they never run it with more than one boat (do they even have more than one) and the lines are always atrocious because of it.

 

If Knott's could build a Windseeker, they could build a Giga.

 

This is all theoretical of course, but I do think Knott's is going to need SOMETHING to counteract SFMM and DLR's 2012 additions in either 2012 or 2013...

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^^Wait, what?

Yes Perilous has two boats, and I have not seen it run both at the same time in years, (I think 2008). However, Silver Bullet uses one train quite often during lower attendance days and whenever it is being rehabbed. Xcelerator's rehab takes about 3-4 weeks and runs both trains quite frequently when it can. You also have to keep in mind that for a park to have a scheduled 364 days of operation, you'd have to give some flexability in how long rides have to close for maintenence. I think they do a pretty decent job with this seeing as how major rides are still able to run at full capacity from summer all the way through Haunt.

[Sir Clinksalot]

^ I went to Knott's in March (WCB), May (Bert the Conqueror), June (Coasting for Kids), Sept (Haunt), Oct (Haunt) and Dec last year.

 

Xcelerator was running 1 train EVERY time I was at the park.