larrygator Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Am I the only one that doesn't get the theme, the colors or the setting for this coaster? Now, I get that the 66 Days At Sea stuff was really for the hardcore nerds out there but after 66 days in the water, you'd figure there would be just a little bit of water elements in the right. That would even be as simple as track color. With the left over from Pilgrim's Plunge/Girrafica I was almost certain there would be something even as simple as a splash effect flyover similar to Manta at Seaworld Orlando. I don't get where the barn, the farm, the windmill and other "themeing" elements come into play with the story of this ride. Normally I wouldn't care but when the park kept pumping how they were the first theme park in the US, even before Disney, they just kind of pooped out a rough story and then slapped it together like a poorly made PB&J sandwich. I get you're being saved by the thunderbird and all, I just don't see how that plays into the name when starting inside a barn with clouds/lightning going off. Either way, I will say that for HW this will be a great addition and I am not going to judge the ride itself based off the theme, however I will say that Winged coasters have yet to amaze me in their ride experience. Gatekeeper and Wild Eagle both are very "meh" and X-Flight is the best of the three but mostly based off their keyhole and fly through type elements. Well said Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So Paula has tweeted that there won't be any prices changes next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 To answer all of the theme questions this is what Holiday World says...LEGEND: In 1620, as the Mayflower neared the end of its 66 days at sea, a mighty storm nearly capsized the ship, taking it hundreds of miles off course. As passengers and crew feared all was lost, an immense bird appeared in the sky. The thunderbird, whose wings created the thunder and eyes flashed the lightning of the powerful storm, rescued the ship by launching it through the sky to the New World. I think the main question was how the modern day farm themeing played into the story. I think the issue is no one has ever heard of this legend before. I'm a pretty big history buff and never heard mentions of the Thunderbird tribes of the northeastern parts of the US. How would a pilgrim even know what a Thunderbird was if it was isolated in Northwest US/Britich Columbia area indian folklore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 ^ Wild Turkey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) ^It would have been a much more appropriate name. Ironic, considering not many TPR members have even ridden Sky Scrapper, and most of the hype is based purely off the POV, which is exactly the same kind of determination I'm making. You piss poor attitude is turning into ignorance. SkyScrapper finished in the Top20 of Mitch's Steel Poll last year for a reason. I do not recall one person on the 2012 TPR China Trip complaining about it; I seem to recall most people raving about it. I don't understand why you think the hype is based solely on POV when 50 members of TPR rode the coaster. The ride was very forceful (or at least it was when we rode it) and enjoyable. Back on topic, I'm not going to judge this ride based on a POV, I base my opinion on rides. True B&M doesn't have the most intense portfolio of late and wing rider are not favorites of the enthusiast community, but parks commission coasters for their clientele. Enthusiasts represent a very small percentage of park goers. Edited July 25, 2014 by larrygator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoGuy Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Why do people care so much about forces? I have NEVER heard, not even once, from anyone outside the enthusiast community, of a ride not having enough force. 99% of people judge a ride on how fun it was, not "it didn't pull 4.5 g's". 2 to 3 g's provides plenty of dynamic forces imho. I really dont like how condescending some of this group can be toward the "GP". Just because the majority of people dont study physics in relation to roller coasters or know the difference between LIMs and LSMs etc etc doesnt mean that theyre mindless peeps in a Rollercoaster Tycoon game. Before I was an "enthusiast" I still knew what rides were forceful and which ones weren't, and that the more powerful ones were more enjoyable. Maybe the "GP" doesnt get off a ride saying "that ride was forceless, I only felt 2.4 G's", but have you ever heard "that was boring" or "that could have gone faster" or "that wasnt that intense?". Its the same thing. Give people a little credit. Some people may only care about loops and big maneuvers but if you have any sense of speed or general feeling in your body, you know what a force is, and some non-enthusiasts (surprise, surprise!) tend to enjoy them! (See: Maverick queue line). That being said, I will agree that the "enthusiast" crowd is a lot more picky. Personally, I think that this addition looks good and Ive always been a fan of wing coasters, but Im more excited for what this means for the industry. If people come out in droves, HW could become a major player in the industry. Also, pending this rides success, we could be seeing more daring designs from B&Ms and possibly more launches...which is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Maven Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Didn't they say they were going to add the clue reveals to the 66 Day website? "They?" Who's "they"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarmor Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 They! You know "them"... Paula, I now see why the usage of aspirin would be needed AFTER the announcement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterchitchat Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Didn't they say they were going to add the clue reveals to the 66 Day website? "They?" Who's "they"? Your answers are in the below video. Grab a beer and just figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTF Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Kind of odd to see a few negative posts or less than enthused folks on here in regards to this announcement. I truly believe this will be a huge win for Holiday World and the Koch family. Its my opinion that some people get tied up in number of inversions, top speed, ride length and so on these days when they should be focused on the experience as a whole. The most important thing in any ride is, is it fun. Not how many records does it break. It looks to be one of the better steel coasters as of late, especially from B&M, and without a doubt the most innovative wing rider I've seen. As for the questions of 22 Million for the attraction, well when you want the best you pay for it. The fact that a family owned and operated park went out and got them a B&M wing rider should be the headline in my opinion. Its just awesome that in a "struggling economy" the family stuck to their guns and went for the best in a time where massive corporations are leaning towards less expensive options with unproven reliability. That to me just says they truly care about its guests experience and overall ride quality. The park isn't gonna have to worry about opening it a month late or having issues for the first 6 months directly impacting its guests. Also for what its worth I'm sure that launch system isn't cheap especially if its being produced in full by B&M. I'm sure a little chunk of change was spent in the R&D process. Not to mention housing that generator for the system, those don't come cheap. I mean a recent 100 million dollar attraction utilizes a pinch tire driven system for its launch to save money. Again though huge kudos to Holiday World for digging deep and going for this. It looks like its going to be an amazing and reliable attraction which interacts with its environment. All while offering its riders a unique and thrilling experience. Although I've personally never been, If I could choose any park to visit in the country next year it would be Holiday World. Wait wait wait... You mean to tell me you have a B&M launch coaster here, a water park, and its free parking and free drinks.... AND TICKETS ARE 40 BUCKS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Maven Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 That being said, Paula did mention on the podcast tonight that they paid for a new power substation to be installed across the street from the park & thought it was interesting that none of the enthusiasts noticed it with as anal as they were being with investigating the footers. To clarify, I did not say "anal." Out loud, anyway. And while we're on the subject, for those who thought Oceanus would be a good name, I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was on my list of favorites for when we were naming Voyage. It was only during this naming process that VP Eric pointed out that, well, there might be those who would pronounce the name with emphasis on the last two syllables. I was crestfallen. (Crestfallen that I hadn't caught that - I usually delight in shocking the younger members of our staff by "Oh, but that rhymes with ." Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glouthan Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't know if this was posted yet, but just in case anyone missed the live stream announcement here it is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheel1231 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Okay, I think neil has had enough backlash. Lol. On every page, there's about one comment quoting neil and then writing something contradicting his statements. But I guess I'm a hypocrite, since I had input in this. Let's just be happy that Holiday World is adding a steel coaster and that B&M is making a launch coaster. To things to be excited about in one product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tororific Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I really dont like how condescending some of this group can be toward the "GP". Just because the majority of people dont study physics in relation to roller coasters or know the difference between LIMs and LSMs etc etc doesnt mean that theyre mindless peeps in a Rollercoaster Tycoon game. Before I was an "enthusiast" I still knew what rides were forceful and which ones weren't, and that the more powerful ones were more enjoyable. Maybe the "GP" doesnt get off a ride saying "that ride was forceless, I only felt 2.4 G's", but have you ever heard "that was boring" or "that could have gone faster" or "that wasnt that intense?". Its the same thing. Give people a little credit. Some people may only care about loops and big maneuvers but if you have any sense of speed or general feeling in your body, you know what a force is, and some non-enthusiasts (surprise, surprise!) tend to enjoy them! (See: Maverick queue line). I could not agree more. The majority of coaster riders can tell a forceful intense ride from a non-intense one. And the majority of the so-called "GPs" tastes converge with the "enthusiasts." All you have to do is think about which coasters tend to have longest lines at major thrill parks -- it tends to be the same ones that enthusiasts love, which tends to be the more "intense" rides. El Toro is massively popular among the "GP," not just enthusiasts. As is Nitro and Batman and kingda Ka (lines can sometimes be deceiving, though, if you don't consider capacity issues). At Cedar Point, the most popular rides are Millennium, Maverick, Top Thrill Dragster, and Magnum -- all fairly intense rides (we can quibble about millennium forceless, but it's not a family coaster). At SFGam, Raging Bull is the king, Goliath may well be the new one, Batman remains very popular, etc.. Same concepts apply. That said, parks are wise to have a variety of coasters so that ALL members of the family have something to ride. It was great to go to Cedar Point with my 10 year-old daughter and see the variety of choices for her and her friends. Day 1 she did Iron Dragon (a forceless horror for us, but she LOVED it and I looked at it with fresh eyes through her joy), Blue Streak (too rattly!), Gemini (she LOVED it), Cedar Creek Mine ride (liked it a lot). Day 2: same plus Magnum (loved it). But milliennium force, dragster, maverick, and all the upside down ones were too intimidating for her. Had the park only had Maverick-like rides, it would have been a lousy experience for her and her friends, and hence for the whole family. As it was, everyone along for the trip had something to ride -- that's a successful long-term approach. Next year she is going to take on Millennium Force and maybe Maverick. So, there is a well-rounded set of rides to build over time. So, I get what holiday world is accomplishing here: let's have a set of well-rounded rides that will please the majority of the family, with varying degrees of intensity. This Thunderbird thing fits the bill -- but so did lots of other options. Personally, I think for $22M you could have put a Cheetah Run-like Intamin racing through the woods and darting in and out of Voyage that would have met all your demographic goals but had longer-lasting staying power than a wingrider, but what do I know? Reasonable people can disagree on the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Monte Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 To answer all of the theme questions this is what Holiday World says...LEGEND: In 1620, as the Mayflower neared the end of its 66 days at sea, a mighty storm nearly capsized the ship, taking it hundreds of miles off course. As passengers and crew feared all was lost, an immense bird appeared in the sky. The thunderbird, whose wings created the thunder and eyes flashed the lightning of the powerful storm, rescued the ship by launching it through the sky to the New World. I think the main question was how the modern day farm themeing played into the story. I think the issue is no one has ever heard of this legend before. I'm a pretty big history buff and never heard mentions of the Thunderbird tribes of the northeastern parts of the US. How would a pilgrim even know what a Thunderbird was if it was isolated in Northwest US/Britich Columbia area indian folklore. Over thinking this just a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 To answer all of the theme questions this is what Holiday World says...LEGEND: In 1620, as the Mayflower neared the end of its 66 days at sea, a mighty storm nearly capsized the ship, taking it hundreds of miles off course. As passengers and crew feared all was lost, an immense bird appeared in the sky. The thunderbird, whose wings created the thunder and eyes flashed the lightning of the powerful storm, rescued the ship by launching it through the sky to the New World. I think the main question was how the modern day farm themeing played into the story. I think the issue is no one has ever heard of this legend before. I'm a pretty big history buff and never heard mentions of the Thunderbird tribes of the northeastern parts of the US. How would a pilgrim even know what a Thunderbird was if it was isolated in Northwest US/Britich Columbia area indian folklore. Over thinking this just a bit? Over thinking or nit-picking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Monte Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 This ride should be just what the doctor ordered for this park. If I were a young guest of this park and looked on the website and saw this I would seriously lose it (in a good way). Such a shame people get so jaded after awhile and and lose that sense of wonder. Congrats to Holiday World. You have officially entered the big leagues with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 This ride should be just what the doctor ordered for this park. If I were a young guest of this park and looked on the website and saw this I would seriously lose it (in a good way). Such a shame people get so jaded after awhile and and lose that sense of wonder. Congrats to Holiday World. You have officially entered the big leagues with this one. Could not agree more. It is a shame. All this worrying about theming and forces and elements.... why not just ride to, oh I don't know, HAVE FUN? No wait, that's too simple, that won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoast Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 And while we're on the subject, for those who thought Oceanus would be a good name, I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was on my list of favorites for when we were naming Voyage. It was only during this naming process that VP Eric pointed out that, well, there might be those who would pronounce the name with emphasis on the last two syllables. I was crestfallen. (Crestfallen that I hadn't caught that - I usually delight in shocking the younger members of our staff by "Oh, but that rhymes with ." Sigh. This post gave me a good chuckle I think this project looks great, congrats to the park! Definitely an ambitious decision to go with a Wing-rider for their first steel coaster. I for one really enjoy Gatekeeper (hides from being pelted with stones)...sure the second half is uneventful but I thought the first half packed a pretty good punch. Visually this thing is going to look incredible being launched into that immelman. Unfortunately, I will probably never get to this park (its a geography thing). One thing I will say is an opinion is one thing, but the bashing is another. Some of you sure seem to take the wind out of the sails for an active contributor to this site (Raven Maven). Such a turn off to see all the negativity after an announcement. I'll take any new coaster...may not get to ride this one but will enjoy seeing the construction pictures and that POV when its released! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayWorldFTW Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So Paula has tweeted that there won't be any prices changes next year! Your joking right? I SERIOUSLY expected a bump in price increases next hear after this ride. Not just ticket prices but food and all. I'm simply amazed that they are doing this huge coaster and not upping prices at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Paula, Does Holiday World offer any law enforcement discounts? I've steered a lot of co-workers to Holiday World, but none of us ever thought to ask. I was just curious. Your prices are already a bargain as it is, so I could understand if you don't offer those discounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_koppen Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Looks like a fun, solid ride that will be awesome to ride for the guests of Holiday World. I always thought of how heavy the wing rider trains are compare to regular coaster trains, and that no park was going to want to build a launched version due to the high cost of launching them, but it's great to see that it was economical possible even though the trains have to be short and the launch takes a little bit longer. but I just can't see the launch not having problems. It won't have any problems with the launch, the LSM technology is so widespread and develop nowadays that these systems are easy to build if you have a few knowledgeable people working for you. A few examples: 2007 Maurer Söhne first LSM launch, no problems 2007 Zierer first LSM launch, no problems 2008 Gerstlauer first LSM launch, no problems 2010 Mack first LSM launch, no problems I'm fairly confident that B&M have this one covered. Edited July 25, 2014 by _koppen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgetman82 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So Paula has tweeted that there won't be any prices changes next year! Your joking right? I SERIOUSLY expected a bump in price increases next hear after this ride. Not just ticket prices but food and all. I'm simply amazed that they are doing this huge coaster and not upping prices at all. *Meanwhile, at Disney World...* *ahem...* I think that's great as well! I'm guessing the park has made enough revenue to it, and will probably make enough to keep it throughout the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjp Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I was watching the animated POV and noticed that when the in-line roll is finishing you hear that sound of the anti rollback dogs "falling" into their normal position, which other wing coasters do. However, I'm guessing this ride won't have them, right? As to the ongoing discussion: I can't say I was disappointed by the ride but that's because, despite all the claims that this would be something epic, I tried to keep my expectations decent. I'm glad to see B&M stepping into the launch business once and for all, hopefully making them able to offer this technology on all their rides. The ride figures don't seem astonishing (speed, acceleration, height, length, and maybe the size of the trains?....) but then I didn't expect them to be so given this is a first for B&M. Once more, I don't know exactly how much it is up to the park to design the ride so I don't know how different it would have been done by other manufacturer. I did want to see lapbars for their next looping coaster but I guess it's not this time. All in all, let's just wait until we ride it. P.S I do seriously hope the tracks don't have one bit of sand as none of the recent B&Ms seems to be properly loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgetman82 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 ^Banshee has a small amount of roar to it, though slightly muffled so it wouldn't bust out the little-ones' ear drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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