Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[anonymouscactus]

Doesn't Six Flags still have the same policy? (Close rides early so riders are off the rides by X time) It's been awhile since I thought about it.

[The Geek Mojo]

I will also add that this is the only park I've ever been to that closes their roller coasters down early before the park actual closes. Mammoth closed down an hour early, Wildebeast closed down 45 minutes early. Voyage, Raven and Thunderbird closed down 30 minutes early. The park was very crowded and it just seemed like they just couldn't wait to close down everything early to move people out as quick as possible. I was not a fan of this. I guess I'm just used to Six Flags and Cedar Fair parks letting you ride all the way up to closing. And although I enjoyed the park, it will probably get another huge attraction to get me to drive 4 hours back to Holiday World. Shutting everything down at 6pm is just disappointing.

 

I totally understand and agree. May I suggest you let the park know directly, preferably in a polite (snail mail) letter. It's always good to let them know how you feel about their park (in a nice way, of course); the good and the bad! Every little bit of input helps. They really do read it.

 

Kings Island used to shut down the Beast queue early, many moons ago before Cedar Fair took over.

 

 

I am going to write the park. Both days I was there, I visited guest relations. The first day was mainly just about finding more info on The Legend. The second day was about shutting the rides down early because I thought when they did it on Saturday, it was just a fluke. But when they did it again on Sunday, I just couldn't believe it and had to say something. And the thing is, I really enjoyed the park...It's really friggin' awesome. My only problem was with closing the rides down early...I've just never seen that before. I get it, it's just a Holiday World thing and I'll have to get over it if I ever visit there again...Which I will of course.

[The Geek Mojo]

Doesn't Six Flags still have the same policy? (Close rides early so riders are off the rides by X time) It's been awhile since I thought about it.

 

 

I have been to SFOG, SFGAdv, SFGAm, SFSL, SFOT, and SFFT and none of them have never shut rides down early when I was there...Hell, sometimes they'll be late shutting the lines down. Six Flags and Cedar Fair are really great about leaving the lines open until closing time.

[anonymouscactus]

Good to know. I haven't been to a Six Flags park late recently, I'm talking all the way back to the SFDL days

[ratdogg68]

It is posted at all rides, that the lines will be shut down early to accommodate all riders in line by closing. I don't like the idea, but I understand it. When I worked at SFKK, we shut our lines down early to accommodate all riders by closing. I think Kentucky Kingdom still does it.

[DJeXeL]

Ride queues should remain open until park closing. It's horrible guest service to close the lines early because the "line is long."

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Holiday World is the only park I've been to that has this policy, but I believe that Kentucky Kingdom does as well. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong; I haven't been to KK myself.

[iheartHW]

Splashin' Safari always closes at least an hour, sometimes 2 hours before the rest of the park. Over this past weekend Splashin' Safari closing time was 6 PM every day and the rest of the park closed at 7 PM. My favorite time to be at Holiday World is in the evening, so I am always sad at the beginning and end of the season when they have shortened hours.

 

They do give a warning not to wait until the last minute to get in line, but I can still understand being disappointed if they closed everything down way early. I was there Sunday, but left about an hour and a half before the park closed so I didn't see things getting shut down early.

 

I have never had trouble with them closing lines too early. Normally I try to go on the least busy days so I am not sure about the super busy days. Normally most lines are open until the last minute or just close 10 or 15 minutes early so that everyone already in line can ride and they can still shut down the ride as close to closing time as possible.

[adamico2]

I am going to write the park. Both days I was there, I visited guest relations. The first day was mainly just about finding more info on The Legend. The second day was about shutting the rides down early because I thought when they did it on Saturday, it was just a fluke. But when they did it again on Sunday, I just couldn't believe it and had to say something. And the thing is, I really enjoyed the park...It's really friggin' awesome. My only problem was with closing the rides down early...I've just never seen that before. I get it, it's just a Holiday World thing and I'll have to get over it if I ever visit there again...Which I will of course.

This practice is actually very common among family-owned parks.They close the lines early out of respect for employees' time. Also, some states' labor laws place restrictions on the number of consecutive hours minors can work, so actually sending employees home at closing time (or 30 minutes after, more likely) can ease the scheduling process, especially late in the season, when most college students are back in school. That being said, as Holiday World continues to move into "big park" territory, they may want to consider adjusting this policy, as people have come to expect being able to step in line one minute until park closing at the chain parks.

[marth555]

I love Holiday World but there late rides policy seems to leave a bad impression as the guest exits the park

[The Geek Mojo]

Splashin' Safari always closes at least an hour, sometimes 2 hours before the rest of the park. Over this past weekend Splashin' Safari closing time was 6 PM every day and the rest of the park closed at 7 PM. My favorite time to be at Holiday World is in the evening, so I am always sad at the beginning and end of the season when they have shortened hours.

 

They do give a warning not to wait until the last minute to get in line, but I can still understand being disappointed if they closed everything down way early. I was there Sunday, but left about an hour and a half before the park closed so I didn't see things getting shut down early.

 

I have never had trouble with them closing lines too early. Normally I try to go on the least busy days so I am not sure about the super busy days. Normally most lines are open until the last minute or just close 10 or 15 minutes early so that everyone already in line can ride and they can still shut down the ride as close to closing time as possible.

 

Yeah, Splashin' Safari closes at 6, but Mammoth shut down at 5pm and Wildebeest closed at 5:15pm. And they do post signs but do not give a specific time when the lines will be shut down. And then they come over the intercom stating that the rest of the park stays open to 7pm and to "enjoy their rides" but when you get to their other rides, they all have an employee and sign saying "NO RIDE FOR YOU" jk. I understand employees want to go home...But just do the public a favor and state your closing the rides down an hour early when you enter the park or just shut the park down and hour early and keep the lines open that way first time visitors like me aren't sent away with a bad impression of the park. But all of this is just my opinion and just an idea. I don't expect anybody to do what I suggest...They own the park so they're in charge of their own policy and I understand that.

[iheartHW]

I am sorry. That is very disappointing, especially since you traveled so far. I am glad you had a good time other than that. I think writing the Holiday World is a good idea. They are very good about listening to suggestions. They don't have to change their policy of closing lines to be able to shut down the rides at a certain time, but changes could be made to make sure the visitors have a better understanding. They do have a warning to not wait until the last minute, but maybe it could be a little more specific if closing lines up to an hour early is common. I know Holiday World goes above and beyond to make visitors happy and I know they wouldn't want people to leave upset over a misunderstanding about what time the lines close.

[Quetzal]

Holiday World is large enough where they should have the queues open until the end of the day. If Six Flags can do it, HW can do it. If scheduling is an issue, then make the employees' hours end at a later time, further from closing.

[DBru]

This policy has always frustrated me, as well. Few things ruin the end of your day at a park more than running to your favorite coaster, only to discover the line has been closed off 15 minutes prior to closing time. This is especially frustrating after my experience working at Cedar Point, where we wait until AFTER the park has officially closed to chain off the lines so that every guest can end their day with one last awesome ride.

 

I would much rather have the park close at 6:30pm and close the lines at 6:30pm than have the park close at 7pm and close the lines at 6:45pm.

[Midgetman82]

Holiday World is the only park I've been to that has this policy, but I believe that Kentucky Kingdom does as well. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong; I haven't been to KK myself.

Kentucky Kingdom does it. It mostly depends on the length of line, but some rides close 15 minutes, 30 minutes, or an hour prior to the park closing. I'm pretty certain it's for the exact reason adamico2 said:

 

They close the lines early out of respect for employees' time. Also, some states' labor laws place restrictions on the number of consecutive hours minors can work, so actually sending employees home at closing time (or 30 minutes after, more likely) can ease the scheduling process, especially late in the season, when most college students are back in school...

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Great, thanks for confirming. Seems like the sort of policy that would work well for local parks, since most guests would be familiar with the rule. Holiday World is getting bigger than a local park though. I knew about the policy prior to going, thanks to this forum, but it's not extremely well advertised except for the two LIM slides (where you have to walk past a sign right at the queue entrance).

[HWFan]

Doesn't Six Flags still have the same policy? (Close rides early so riders are off the rides by X time) It's been awhile since I thought about it.

 

 

I have been to SFOG, SFGAdv, SFGAm, SFSL, SFOT, and SFFT and none of them have never shut rides down early when I was there...Hell, sometimes they'll be late shutting the lines down. Six Flags and Cedar Fair are really great about leaving the lines open until closing time.

SFSL has always left the lines open until the park closes. However, this year there is a sign outside JLBM that says the line closed an hour before the park. This started after one Saturday where the line was over two hours long when the park closed, which postponed a lot of the maintenance/washdown schedule by 2.5-3 hours. However, they have been since keeping the line open as long as possible in an attempt to keep it at 60 minutes or less at closing time, which means that the line only has to close 15min early or less on most days. It makes sense in extreme cases, but I did always find it a bit odd when HW would close a ride an hour early that didn't have much of a wait at all. Either way, if you just read the signs and plan ahead, it has never been a big deal for me.

 

Also, in terms of the minor labor laws, I doubt that plays a factor. While I am only versed in the laws of Missouri, unless Indiana is drastically different, this shouldn't really be an issue with ride operators, as 14-15 year olds (the age range that has the strict regulations) aren't allowed to operate rides anyway.

[SFOGdude25]

This is really random, but I had a dream last night where I watched Voyage replace all its track with RMC I-Box track that was two-tone red and yellow for some reason, and the layout stayed exactly the same. Anyways I was flipping with joy and excitement when I saw what was going on, then I woke up sad that it wasn't real.

 

But really though, Voyage (same layout) with RMC topper track would seriously be the best ride ever.

[adamico2]

^^My experience with labor laws was in New York. If anyone under 18 had a work day longer than 8.5 hours, he would require (2) half hour, unpaid breaks. Also, no one, of any age, could work for 6 consecutive hours without a half hour unpaid break. This would cause staffing issues at Seabreeze, late in the season. A few years ago the park started closing the entire water park an hour early, once colleges were back in session. In the mid-west, I'm sure the labor laws are a bit less ridiculous.

[SFOG1991]

Doesn't Six Flags still have the same policy? (Close rides early so riders are off the rides by X time) It's been awhile since I thought about it.

 

 

I have been to SFOG, SFGAdv, SFGAm, SFSL, SFOT, and SFFT and none of them have never shut rides down early when I was there...Hell, sometimes they'll be late shutting the lines down. Six Flags and Cedar Fair are really great about leaving the lines open until closing time.

When I was at SFOT they proved their terrible ability to handle lines and closing times quite well. They closed the queue for New Texas Giant early, but then additionally an employee came up and cut the line at around the point of being half an hour deep and told everyone behind that point they had to leave. It was unbelievable. I have never seen anything like it.

 

I really hope that isn't normal at SFOT

[ajfelice]

The line closing policy debate is a double-edged sword in my opinion. I have experience working in two parks in which one closed lines (supposedly) 8 minutes after the posted closing time, and the other closes lines based on length.

 

The argument for keeping the lines open is obviously guest satisfaction. People get to ride an extra ride or two, and the chances for the evening to end in unexpected disappointment are essentially eliminated. For park workers, they normally dread this time. Myself, an enthusiast, personally couldn't wait to see the end of the line make it into the station as I knew I was already going to only get 5 hours of sleep at best between two shifts over 12 hours. On the slower nights when the line was at walk-on this policy is not a big deal, on a busy Saturday night when the line is an hour at closing, that is a huge deal when you had to be at work again in less than 8 hours. However, there was no doubt that the riders near the end of the night were easily the most enthusiastic and happy group of the day.

 

Closing Lines early works well for smaller parks on tighter budgets and with tighter staff. For example, my current place of employment has maintenance employees who arrive at 6am and must be at the park until all rides are done operating at 10:00pm. Should we hire more maintenance? Possibly. In this smaller park, at 10:00pm when the rides are closing, I and most other managers will be well into the 13th hour of work for the day. Most of the managers work 5 days at 13+ hours, with the sixth day being 8 hours. Hiring more staff would reduce the hour counts, but is the cost of doing this worth it for a smaller park? This isn't even factoring in other operating costs such as utility and other personnel needed in the park after closing besides Ride Operators and Maintenance. For smaller parks compared to the larger Cedar Fair and Six Flags parks, a policy of closing lines early can make a lot of sense. These parks are saving a lot in not only monetary capital but preserving the intangible aspects of human capital.

 

On a personal note, when I close lines early I attempt to make it as fair as possible. I will not calculate a 23 minute line to close at 9:37. The line will close at 9:45. It does give a perception of wanting to run out of the door if at the stroke of ten each major ride is literally sending out the final train, or has already sent it. While closing lines early might disappoint a very select few, it is saving the park a lot in the long run.

[ZeroGravity55]

I think some of us forget how small Holiday World is when we think of it as just a single park. When we think of Holiday World and Splashin' Safari as one, it becomes this park that can compete with regional sized parks. The problem is that they're not one park together, they're two separate parks that have different operating schedules. It just so happens that you get two parks for one price (even though I know that the cost of both parks is worked into the admission price for HW). When you think about it, HW only has 4 main attractions. 2 of which pull major lines consistently, which is Thunderbird and The Voyage. SS only has two (which I think that an argument could be made for Zoombabwe as well) and you guessed it, they are Wildebeest and Mammoth. Wildebeest and Mammoth consistently pull the longest lines from open until close. If they left the queues open from open to close when the park is moderately busy to extremely busy, they would still have a 45 min to hour and half wait time at close. Thunderbird is the same story and so is The Voyage if the park is busy. I see a lot of people talking about how this doesn't happen at Six Flags/Cedar Fair. Well, when you have 8-10 roller coasters to disperse the crowds amongst, it becomes easier to keep all the rides queues open until close. Of course, I haven't even brought up the fact that the park seems to have had some capacity issues this year. I don't see this policy changing for awhile, at least until they add more capacity and are able to offset some of the long line issues they have.

[Garet]

Ride queues should remain open until park closing. It's horrible guest service to close the lines early because the "line is long."

 

I understand what you mean for smaller parks but for some of the bigger ones I respectfully disagree. Maybe i've spent too long in Asia where the crowds can be huge but I don't think for some of the biggest parks it is "horrible guest service" but more a necessary evil sadly especially when they already have 11-12 hour opening times. Tokyo Disneysea, on one of my trips still had 3-4 hour lines after Fantasmic and they wouldn't let people into the lines after the fireworks. I didn't see it as a bad thing, disappointing for me, yes, but understandable that they have to close it an hour or two earlier than the park because the "line is long." Surely in that case it's necessary to ensure smooth operations, I mean they leave the quieter rides open. If all these people exit stupidly late and can't get buses/subways it would cause a bit of a problem.

 

Kind of curious which people would like better: if a busy park such as TokyoSea is used to running 8-10 but gets 3-4 hour lines, is it better to advertise opening hours as 8-8 and keep lines open until 8pm but close everything at 8pm and let people filter out once they've joined their final queue/watched the fireworks or advertise as 8-10 like normal with the bigger rides having to shut down earlier than the park due to lines but let people grab souvenirs, some food or get as many of the quieter rides as they can etc?

 

Besides I've seen far stranger policies in Asia, Everland last season would only open 1 ride in each area for the morning and keep another closed and then rotate in the afternoon. Sometimes the top scan literally opened for 10-12 and then the top spin would run 1-10. Everland even now gives each ride different opening hours for every single ride in the park which can be different depending on when you visit, with them posted on the app/entrance of the ride.

[Comeagain?]

Whats strange is from my experience working at a small park, even though there are attractions that pull hour long lines all day, it'll end up being a walk on right before the water park closes. The coasters are often between a 5-15 minute wait at closing. Shorter on a late close. Almost all of our ops get clocked out by about 20-30 mins after closing, even on some of our busiest days. He exceptions being the balance rides that take forever to unload.

[Midgetman82]

They closed the queue for New Texas Giant early, but then additionally an employee came up and cut the line at around the point of being half an hour deep and told everyone behind that point they had to leave.

Something like that would be completely uncalled for. What I've seen are staffers standing at the entrance waiting until a certain time/moment when they can rope off the entrance and place the sign out front notifying the ride closed early... but never come into the line and force people to turn around.