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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread


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Check out this amazing photo compliments of Dave Morgan!! 

I feel bad because this is all I post about lately but no... if a park has the ability to open and there's demand and they choose to stay closed then they're dumb. Period. Be creative and figure it ou

Did they happen to mention how heavy that train is?

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Jeez, give up on the B&M dream...I could see CP using Intamin's version of a Condor for their Star Flyer. Seeing as it's Cedar Point, they might have it so the seat tilt forwards like some of Intamin's 2nd Gen drop tower. I would ride it, yeah it might not be thrilling (unless the seats tilt lol), but it's just something else to do.

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I've said this before, I'll say it again. B&M is not going to be seen at CP until they can produce something that you can't ride anywhere else in the country. Look at CP's track record, always breaking down barriers and giving you unique coaster experiences. B&M doesn't exactly do that. CP never wants to have a coaster that when it's built, people say, "Oh, this is like Ride X at Park Y." That's all they could get right now with B&M.

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I've said this before, I'll say it again. B&M is not going to be seen at CP until they can produce something that you can't ride anywhere else in the country. Look at CP's track record, always breaking down barriers and giving you unique coaster experiences. B&M doesn't exactly do that. CP never wants to have a coaster that when it's built, people say, "Oh, this is like Ride X at Park Y." That's all they could get right now with B&M.

 

I woulden't say that is true.

 

Look at raptor. Batman was around for a few years before raptor was built. Same thing can be said about mantis. There were other B&M standups before mantis was built. Iron wolf for example.

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^But Raptor and Mantis both introduced completely new elements to their type of ride. Not only were they both the tallest, fastest, and longest of their kind, Raptor introduced the cobra roll to inverts, and Mantis introduced the inclined loop and dive loop to the stand up, as well as became the first stand up to have more than 2 inversions. They were still breaking down barriers and giving you something unique with those. What could they do with a dive machine? Make it taller? What could they do with a floorless that hasn't already been done?

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The same can be said for any type of coaster.

 

What else can they do to a wood coaster? What new kind of inversion can there be? Not just with B&M.

 

Batman has an inline twist.... The cobra roll was not new. Kumba at busch gaardens had that first.

http://www.rcdb.com/94.htm

 

I am not sure what inversion you are talking about on mantis, that was not around already.

 

Making something taller, does not make it better. I think the batman clones are more intense than raptor is, and I think alpengeist and montu ar loads better than raptor, but that's my personal preference. Look at nemesis at alton towers....

http://www.rcdb.com/776.htm?p=0

 

It's under 50 feet tall.Some people say it's one of the most intense inverted coasters out there.

 

Don't get me wrong, raptor is still one of my favorite rides at cedarpoint, but it was nowhere near groundbraking when it was built.Maybe a few feet taller than the last one built, but what does that really add to it?

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Hey guys, I'm going to Cedar Point for the first time in my life sometime next week when I'm on vacation in Ohio. Like anyone else on this website would, I plan to ride as many roller coasters as I can in a single day at the park and I need some advice. After reading information on some Cedar Point fansites, I've already figured out some of the more basic plans (i.e. arrive at the park early, don't ride Raptor first, you can't ride Jr. Gemini without a little kid, etc.) but there are still some things I need some advice on.

 

Everything I've seen has suggested that I ride either TTD, MF, Maverick, or Disaster Transport first, which of these would be the best ride at the beginning of the day, given the summertime crowds? Which coasters (besides the ones I just mentioned) should I expect long lines? Is it better to have lunch and dinner inside or outside of the park, considering price and how long the outside restaurants are from the park? Are there any notable rides closed right now or that will be closed next week? Which notable non-coasters would you suggest if I have extra time in the park? Are there any coasters worth riding more than one time? Are there any coasters not worth riding at all? Etc, etc.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance! I'll be sure to take many pictures of my own as a gift. On that note, are there any good places where I can sneak in a snapshot?

 

The one ride whose line will definitely take the most time is TTD, so you should probably go there first. 18 seat trains...yeah. Millennium Force when it's most crowded usually takes around 45 - 50 minutes (depending on how fast the crew is going that day); Maverick is about an hour wait with full queues (once again, depending on how fast the crew is going that day). Magnum, Gemini, Cedar Creek Mine Ride, Blue Streak, and Corkscrew are usually walk-on's (during a weekday). Disaster Transport even with full queues spilling out to Space Spiral will only take around 20 minutes, so don't worry about waiting for that ride. We (on the DT crew) make the line move as fast as possible. Another one you could go to first would be Wicked Twister. Right at 10, usually til about 10:15, the line doesn't exist. On a Sunday in July my dad and I walked slowly to WT first and got to walk right on to the front. Throughout the day, though, Twister's line can get pretty insane. Another ride whose line goes pretty quick is Raptor. I wouldn't suggest going in the morning unless you're one of the crazy people who run there as fast as you can right when the park opens. Raptor is open for ERT, but the line never accumulates before 10. Right at 10, the line grows to about an hour, but later in the day it will drop to around 30 minutes (half full queues). Some others like Iron Dragon, Wildcat, Woodstock Express, Mean Streak, Mantis, etc, are kind of unpredictable, so you just have to press your luck. For the last ride of the day I would suggest Millennium Force just because the view is amazing and the first drop at night is unbeatable!

 

We were there on a Wednesday (the 21st) and Wicked Twister was a 4 train wait. DT was like 10 minutes and Raptor was about 30. However, like everyone has said, the waits seem to be incredible random. Good luck!

 

Forgot to mention this was at like 6-7 pm!

Edited by Jakizle
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Look at raptor. Batman was around for a few years before raptor was built. Same thing can be said about mantis. There were other B&M standups before mantis was built. Iron wolf for example.

When Raptor and Mantis were built they were massive for there kind. Raptor is insanely massive compared to Batman and the other B&M inverts at the time. I do agree with you when you say Batman is more intense than Raptor (overall I like Raptor slightly better) but it was all about appearance in the coaster race. Mantis was even more massive to the all ready existing Stand-Up coasters. As much as I would like another B&M at CP, there's not much they could do right now.

What else can they do to a wood coaster? What new kind of inversion can there be? Not just with B&M.

Why do you think CP hasn't built a new wooden coaster since 1991? There's not much new to do with them. You kind of just shot down your own argument .

 

 

Also Raptor had the first Inverted Cobra Roll.

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Look at raptor. Batman was around for a few years before raptor was built. Same thing can be said about mantis. There were other B&M standups before mantis was built. Iron wolf for example.

 

Montu is a larger ride than raptor is.It is longer, and there is one more inversion than raptor. Again, just because a ride is taller, it does not make it better.

 

I am not saying that raptor is a bad ride...because it's not. I am saying that just because there is a version of a ride already built, it does not mean that cedarpoint will not build there own version of it just because someone else already has one. If that was the case, corkscrew, mantis, maverick, gemini, wicked twister, raptor, disaster transport, mean streak, wildcat, blue streak, iron dragon, millennium force, mine ride, woodstock express, jr gemini, would never had been built. The only exception that you can make was with dragster.

 

Cedarpoint was just taking a ride that already exsists, and making it a little taller. And that takes me back to my point of just because it is taller, it does not mean it's better.

 

Just because cedarpoint has not built a new wood coaster, means nothing. They have built them at other cedarfair parks in the past few years. Besides that, up untill recently, was there really a need/ want for another wooden coaster at cedarpoint? I am not even sure they NEED another wooden coaster. I think it's more of a wishlist item for coaster geeks(like me).

 

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^ You're missing the point. No one is arguing that Raptor is better because it's bigger, that is all a matter of opinion (CPMaverick was just saying he personally like it better). What is being argued is the fact that Raptor and Mantis broke new ground when they were built, because there was nothing else like them (or at least as large as them) in the world at the time, which is arguably true.

 

 

Regarding a Dive Machine, I think if CP ever does get one, it would have to be 250'-300' tall, and I'm not sure if B&M would push those kind of limits...at least not right now. For all we know Cedar Point could have approached B&M sometime in the past about a monster coaster, but B&M could have declined...who knows.

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Look at raptor. Batman was around for a few years before raptor was built. Same thing can be said about mantis. There were other B&M standups before mantis was built. Iron wolf for example.

 

Montu is a larger ride than raptor is.It is longer, and there is one more inversion than raptor. Again, just because a ride is taller, it does not make it better.

 

I am not saying that raptor is a bad ride...because it's not. I am saying that just because there is a version of a ride already built, it does not mean that cedarpoint will not build there own version of it just because someone else already has one. If that was the case, corkscrew, mantis, maverick, gemini, wicked twister, raptor, disaster transport, mean streak, wildcat, blue streak, iron dragon, millennium force, mine ride, woodstock express, jr gemini, would never had been built. The only exception that you can make was with dragster.

 

Cedarpoint was just taking a ride that already exsists, and making it a little taller. And that takes me back to my point of just because it is taller, it does not mean it's better.

 

Raptor's older than Montu. Corkscrew was one of the first looping coasters, Mantis was much larger than anything before it, along with having twice as many inversions. Gemini was the tallest coaster when it opened (edging out Colossus at SFMM, which opened the same year by a claimed 6", I believe), Wicked Twister was/is the tallest and only impulse with double twisting spikes, Raptor was bigger/had more inversions than anything before it. Mean Streak was the biggest and baddest wooden coaster, Millennium Force was by far the tallest/fastest.

 

These coasters may not be much now, but when they opened, they were all groundbreaking coasters.

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Exactly...Like I said, they were not the first of there type of coasters...just a little taller, and taller does not mean better. I am in no way saying that the rides were no good, I am just showing that they were not the first type of that type of coaster built.

 

Corkscrew was not the first of it's type of coaster. They just made it a little longer or taller with technology and elements that were already around.

 

When I think of groundbraking, I think of something that has never been done before. Like when x was built at magic mountain. That was a new type of coaster.

 

The only groundbraking coaster at cedarpoint, is dragster.

 

Cedarpoint has for the most part, been smart about not going with a new ride type. The exception being dragster and shoot the rapids to a point.

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If you think about it every coaster that CP currently has, with the exception of Cedar Creek Mine Ride and Iron Dragon (although it is now the longest suspended coaster), was some type of ground-breaking coaster:

TTD: First 400 foot coaster

MF: First 300 foot coaster

Magnum: First 200 foot coaster

Gemini: Tallest and fastest coaster and still one of the biggest racing coasters

Wicked Twister: Tallest, fastest and only double twisting suspended impulse coaster

Maverick: One of the steepest coaster drops and a new type of low to the ground coaster

Corkscrew: First coaster with 3 inversions and almost the first modern coaster with a vertical loop

Diasater Transport:Still is the fastest bobsled coaster

Raptor: Tallest, fastest, longest inverted coaster

Mantis: Tallest, fastest, longest stand-up coaster

Mean Streak: Tallest, fastest wooden coaster

Blue Streak: Unofficially one of the fastest and craziest coasters

Wildcat: Didn't break any records but is very popular

 

CP's coasters are all ground braking wether you want to think it or not. It's not like CP just went and took a clone and made it a few feet higher (coughKingdaKacough). Today some of these rides may not be all that great or popular but back when they opened, they were pure craziness. A coaster doesn't have to be the first of it's kind to be ground breaking.

 

As for my ranking of Inverted coasters, it's Montu, Talon, Raptor, Batman, Alpengeist, Great Bear.

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Exactly...

 

They took technolagy that was already out there, and just made it bigger.

 

Imo, making something that already exists, taller/ bigger is not groundbraking. It's more like pushing the envelope.

 

Groundbreaking...

The term groundbreaking, when used as an adjective, may mean being or making something that has never been done or seen or made before; "stylistically innovative works".

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Considering the definition of "innovate" is "to introduce something new; make changes in anything established," I'd classify Cedar Point as considerably groundbreaking (at least at the time those rides were built).

 

The original debate was whether B&M has anything in their arsenal that you can't ride or experience anywhere else (at the time of construction), and would considerably add to Cedar Point's coaster collection. And in my opinion, excluding unbuilt concepts, I'd say no...at least not right this very second.

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built)

 

The original debate was whether B&M has anything in their arsenal that you can't ride or experience anywhere else (at the time of construction), and would considerably add to Cedar Point's coaster collection. And in my opinion, excluding unbuilt concepts, I'd say no...at least not right this very second.

 

That can almost be said for most of the coaster companies out there today. With the exception of a few coasters over seas, what has not been done?

 

If it were me running the park, I would put in a ride like x2 or a dive machine. Something that people in that neck of the woods don't see. The general public does not pay attention to things like this.

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My point being, B&M may only be willing to build a coaster so tall or make it go so fast, no matter what park it goes in. Companies like Intamin are willing to work with Cedar Point to push the limits and cater to their needs, where B&M might not be.

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Groundbreaking...

The term groundbreaking, when used as an adjective, may mean being or making something that has never been done or seen or made before; "stylistically innovative works".

200, 300, 400 feet had never done before, therefore it is groundbreaking.

 

If it were me running the park, I would put in a ride like x2 or a dive machine. Something that people in that neck of the woods don't see. The general public does not pay attention to things like this.

I 100% agree with you. No one around here has any idea what a dive machine is and very few know what X2 is. Considering the U.S. has one 4th dimension, CP would be a great park to build a new, smooth, and better one.

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You guys are missing a point here: it's always about budget with Cedar Fair. Intamin usually bids cheaper than the average B&M coaster. Just look at the cost of both Intimidators for price comparisons. B&M's are known for their reliability (if they can keep their gearboxes in check), but an Intamin ride can push boundaries with a cheaper price tag. A balanced park would have both, if you ask me.

 

So even if CP's new ride turns out to be from someone other than Intamin, keep in mind that, for coasters anyway, they usually beat out the prices of many other manufacturers. (Also likely the reason Hersheypark has two Intamins and one B&M. If the new ride's an Intamin, you'll know why.)

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If you don't consider any of those other rides groundbreaking, then why exactly do you consider Dragster groundbreaking? It just took existing technology and made it taller/faster...

 

Because dragster was a totaly new type of coaster never before built, as where all the other coasters at cedarpoint have been built elsewhere before....just not as big.

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If you don't consider any of those other rides groundbreaking, then why exactly do you consider Dragster groundbreaking? It just took existing technology and made it taller/faster...

Because dragster was a totaly new type of coaster never before built, as where all the other coasters at cedarpoint have been built elsewhere before....just not as big.

You just contradicted yourself. Xcelerator, a hydraulically launched Intamin coaster, opened in 2002 at 205 feet tall. Top Thrill Dragster, also a hydraulically launched Intamin coaster, opened in 2003 at 420 feet tall. The only difference is a stronger launch motor, dissimilar layout, and it's more than two times taller.

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Been a long time lurker but I had to register to tell Thrillrider that I understand his side of the discussion. Having grown up going to CP for most of my life, except for the last couple of years, I have to agree that CP hasn't exactly been in the forefront of doing groundbreaking rides. They have always been the ones to have someone else do the work and then they just improve on it by making it a little different.

 

I don't consider breaking height records as being groundbreaking since these records are/were being broken all the time. The only rides they have installed were groundbreaking only for minor reasons, not because the ride experience was new or unique.

 

Magnum was the first to top 200 feet but overall Magnum is basically taking the concept of a traditional out and back coaster and supersizing it.

 

Millennium Force, to me, was just taking the concept of Magnum and supersizing it to 310 feet. The only real groundbreaking feature was the cable lift hill, other than that it's still basically a traditional out and back freeform coaster.

 

Wicked Twister is not groundbreaking. That honor goes to the impulse that was an hour and a half east of the park at what was Six Flags Ohio/Worlds of Adventure. So they added a second twisted spike, big deal, but Superman had the stronger launch and actually went almost all the way to the top of the spikes, unlike Wicked Twister.

 

Raptor was not groundbreaking. Batman at SFGAm was. It has the same inversions except for the then-new cobra roll, which would have eventually been made for the inverted coaster anyway.

 

Dragster, isn't exactly groundbreaking. For hydraulic launches I would think Xcellerator would be the likely candidate.

 

Personally, I'd love to have a 4th Dimension but I know that will never happen however I wouldn't be surprised if CF took a closer look at X-Raptor at Gardaland once that ride opens.

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