BigBad Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I would assume it's because nobody cares if it's a wood or steel coaster except a few enthusiasts anyway and the steel track is much less expensive to maintain. I'm just making assumptions but I don't think the ROI would be any different and they just choose the cheaper option. Personally I would do the same thing. This makes a lot of sense, but then I have to wonder why there hasn't been an original hybrid (which I've wondered in the past, too), or why RMC has built any wood coasters at all. I think there is some element of parks wanting to have the biggest woodie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT325 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Cedar Point had a perfect classic coaster, with plenty of real air time, but they sorta... (for lack of a better, not as oft used term) "ruined" it with seat dividers, individual ratcheting lap bars and needless headrests. Yes, it is still popular, and runs well for a coaster that has all that gear added to it, but it's not what it used to be. Blue Streak sailed over those hills... now it fights the track the whole way with that extra weight (200 lbs per seat was the rumor when those ratchet bars were being added to a bunch of woodies in the early 90s). Just look at all the extra structure, most notably the triple extra mid-bents that are added to the majority of the ride (this will also soon happen on Thunderhawk at Dorney, seeing it just got new heavier ratchet bars trains). I worked on the Blue Streak and rode it nearly every day for 3 summers (91-93). It just isn't what it used to be. Sure, many CP fans still claim it's a great ride, but for those of us who grew up on it, I can promise you it's very different now. Of course, we can always hope that by some strange alignment in the universe (perhaps the same alignment that has Revolution at SFMM running with out shoulder bars - a feat that every know-it-all in the industry swore would never EVER happen) they one day could decide a true classic ride is important, and retrofit the ride to make it classic again. Of course, there would probably be a no single rider policy like the Kennywood Thunderbolt, which would be totally worth it in my book. Unfortunately, Cedar Fair seems all about getting rid of any sort of single position lap bars on their formerly classic rides. Recent rescinded classics include High Roller at Valleyfair and Thunderhawk at Dorney (which had seat dividers and head rests added years ago, and now runs with ratchet bars). Sure, they get a small break on insurance costs... but there are still a few parks holding on to their still classic woodies. Cedar Point has the resources to have pretty much whatever they want; it would be nice if they had a "one of everything" collection. Never say never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Yes, it is still popular, and runs well for a coaster that has all that gear added to it, but it's not what it used to be. Blue Streak sailed over those hills... now it fights the track the whole way with that extra weight (200 lbs per seat was the rumor when those ratchet bars were being added to a bunch of woodies in the early 90s). Just look at all the extra structure, most notably the triple extra mid-bents that are added to the majority of the ride (this will also soon happen on Thunderhawk at Dorney, seeing it just got new heavier ratchet bars trains). I highly doubt this will be an issue at Dorney. You have to remember that at Cedar Point, the 200 lbs is in addition to the rider in the seat. 200 lbs is probably about the average weight of an adult male so the weight from the restraints is really just replacing the weight that the train would have if it actually had riders in it which it won't because it's at f*cking Dorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT325 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I highly doubt this will be an issue at Dorney. You have to remember that at Cedar Point, the 200 lbs is in addition to the rider in the seat. 200 lbs is probably about the average weight of an adult male so the weight from the restraints is really just replacing the weight that the train would have if it actually had riders in it which it won't because it's at f*cking Dorney. The 200lb figure came from all the hardware on the sides and under the train for the ratcheting bars. I also believe the old volvo headrests (which I don't think PTC uses anymore; rather than being of help, they caused minor injuries) had a 40 lb core. Tom Rebbie from PTC told me a couple years ago they will build what ever the park wants. One problem parks have with buzz bars is that the solenoids in the locking unit burns out. The company that supplied PTC with those went out of business, but they purchased their entire remaining supply. There has to be a way to have buzz bars with out the solenoids, but that would cost on research and design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfelice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) (200 lbs per seat was the rumor when those ratchet bars were being added to a bunch of woodies in the early 90s) I have handled PTC train parts and assisted mechanics who do annual tear-downs and rebuilds of our PTC trains; one with single position lap bars, the other with ratchets. While there are certainly some extra beef to the ratchet mechanisms compared to the old buzz bars and single position lap bars, I can't for the life of me come up with an extra 200lbs per seat when comparing the two. A "modern" (hard to say that with a straight face) PTC train with six 4-seat cars is about 12,000 pounds. I doubt if it had single position lap bars, it would weigh 4,800 pounds less. However, with further accessories such as one model of headrests adding 40 pounds per seat, the combined transformation from single-position to the whole nine yards with dividers and headrests might have added on some decent dead weight. There are a variety of reasons to switch from single-position to ratchet bars. I see pros and cons to both when it comes to safety and ride experience. From a maintenance standpoint, the ratchets are much easier to maintain. On a side note, buzz bars, despite having that iconic sound and nostalgic feeling, are also a mechanical annoyance. Edited January 4, 2017 by ajfelice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Dollywood just dumped a boatload of money into a new wood coaster, they could have easily built a big B&M steel coaster with that budget At this point, I wonder if they wish they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philrad71 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 ^ Not going to lie. . . At first I thought you were talking about the tunnel on Magnum. My first thought was "Weird. . . Why would they need to get rid of that??" . . . Then I saw the actually tunnel that you were referring too. I thought the same at first too (removing the Magnum tunnel). Forgive my stupidity, but I'm still trying to visualize that pedestrian tunnel gone - even with the photo. If I am looking at this correctly, instead of the tunnel going under the Breakers access road, guests will now need to walk across the access road via pedestrian path. Does that mean a potential stop light for the access road? If so, could or would this create a potential bottleneck & safety issue for traffic and guests at certain times of the day? Or is the resort guest entrance being moved somewhere else due to the water park expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 If I am looking at this correctly, instead of the tunnel going under the Breakers access road, guests will now need to walk across the access road via pedestrian path. Does that mean a potential stop light for the access road? If so, could or would this create a potential bottleneck & safety issue for traffic and guests at certain times of the day? I was thinking the same thing. *If* we are looking at it correctly (which we might not be) it seems strange to make it where guest must walk across the road instead of under it. . . It seems like it would cause congestion and such. . . Either way, I know Cedar Point knows what they are doing. . . It's just strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philrad71 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 ^ It would be cool if they could do a Breakers entrance somewhere down around the Magnum queue, Lighthouse Point entrance near _____ Streak/Gemini and a Soak City entrance to the park where the tunnel used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossed Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Dollywood just dumped a boatload of money into a new wood coaster, they could have easily built a big B&M steel coaster with that budget At this point, I wonder if they wish they had. After year one, I'd think so. That picture from Phoenix blows me away. Fortunately it wasn't like that when I visit earlier this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT325 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (200 lbs per seat was the rumor when those ratchet bars were being added to a bunch of woodies in the early 90s) I have handled PTC train parts and assisted mechanics who do annual tear-downs and rebuilds of our PTC trains; one with single position lap bars, the other with ratchets. While there are certainly some extra beef to the ratchet mechanisms compared to the old buzz bars and single position lap bars, I can't for the life of me come up with an extra 200lbs per seat when comparing the two. A "modern" (hard to say that with a straight face) PTC train with six 4-seat cars is about 12,000 pounds. I doubt if it had single position lap bars, it would weigh 4,800 pounds less. However, with further accessories such as one model of headrests adding 40 pounds per seat, the combined transformation from single-position to the whole nine yards with dividers and headrests might have added on some decent dead weight. There are a variety of reasons to switch from single-position to ratchet bars. I see pros and cons to both when it comes to safety and ride experience. From a maintenance standpoint, the ratchets are much easier to maintain. On a side note, buzz bars, despite having that iconic sound and nostalgic feeling, are also a mechanical annoyance. Thank you for your insight! When working on Blue Streak, the most common issues were the solenoids burning out, and lap bars getting stuck down. A pen or proper "lap bar key" could fix that, but it was an annoyance. I think a perfect set up for comfort and safety would be the standard buzz bar, with sides/back that are an inch or 2 higher. The ratchet bars can be a liability if not down far enough... Return of the buzz bar! I wish anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I just think I should mention that my post's entire purpose was to make a Dorney attendance joke, and the well thought out and insightful responses it generated were completely undeserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT325 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I just think I should mention that my post's entire purpose was to make a Dorney attendance joke, and the well thought out and insightful responses it generated were completely undeserved. I take it from the implied joke ... that Dorney is not very crowded? Dang, should've kept their Schwarzkopf The last time I was there, it was so a friend could grab "credits." We were in and out in an hour. I did, however, LOVE Laser when it was there. Demon Drop is fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms555 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 This may sound strange but as far as seat dividers go,i actually like that coasters have them. Hear me out please. See lets say you are in a odd numbered group and you end up sitting alone,then some single rider comes along and sits next to you,without the dividers it would be awkward to keep smashing up against a total stranger. I seen old photos of old fashioned coaster cars that had TINY 2-people bench seats! I often wondered if you got stuck with someone you didnt know how awkward would that be! Most people of course dont think about this type of stuff but as someone with social anxiety I often do....Of course though for the most part I ignore my social anxiety when it comes to amusement parks because its not worth missing out on fun because of it. But yes i do really appreciate seat dividers for that "just in case" reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 . . .it would be awkward to keep smashing up against a total stranger. . . You've never been clubbing have you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms555 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 ^Sorry can't say that I have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 ^Sorry can't say that I have.... Be glad! (It's really not all that great!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT325 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I would put "wanting seat dividers on coasters so you don't have contact with a stranger" up there with people not knowing how to say "excuse me," "pardon me" (why do so many say a quick and nervous "sorry"). It's wonderful to squish a friend on a classic coaster (Kennywood Thunderbolt). So we need seat dividers on all coasters (don't we have enough seat dividers???) so the stray single paired up with a stranger doesn't have to come into contact with them?? Times have changed. Geez, I'm going to sound silly and old here... Years ago, if someone was single and saw you alone, it was like "hey, are you alone!? mind if I ride with you?!" In recent years, I've rode with single riders (who were told to sit with me) that would barely make eye contact with me let alone acknowledge me. People will walk 2 inches behind you at a Six Flags, but don't have (what used to be) very common and practical manners. Ok, getting off high horse. I know I know... Nina Kleppe likes this (that I'm getting off my high horse). (Ok, one more. Seat dividers have made people not like laterals and think that the Holiday World Legend's curves should be banked more. We only have a few remaining coasters without seat dividers, I will get out and enjoy them while I can!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImNotOneOfYou Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I remember way back in some day when I sat with another single rider and we turned the train into a party! Last train of the night for Twister at Knoebels was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I dunno I think its pretty awkward if yall think its awkward to sit next to a stranger on a coaster. Its happened to me a good amount and I always try to at least say hi and make some friendly small talk. I've even made a few really good friends with this way. So you're about to do something for the sole purpose of fun and it happens to be with someone you don't know who is also doing this thing for the sole purpose of fun and you're going to ignore them the whole time? Lamesauce with a side of awkward and a dash of weirdo.* Say hi, ask them if they've ridden the ride before, have they been to the park before, tell them how much of a geek you are... Trust me it makes life more fun. *I know... its like the recipe for coaster enthusiasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBobs Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'm a self admittedly shy and introverted person. If i'm a single rider and I get paired up w a stranger I at least say hi. And I honestly have no problems asking strangers if I can ride with them. Amusement parks seem to be my comfort zone and I come out of my shell. However, put me in a bar or other social type situation and I revert back into my shy, introverted self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytterbiumanalyst Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I dunno I think its pretty awkward if yall think its awkward to sit next to a stranger on a coaster. Its happened to me a good amount and I always try to at least say hi and make some friendly small talk. I've even made a few really good friends with this way. So you're about to do something for the sole purpose of fun and it happens to be with someone you don't know who is also doing this thing for the sole purpose of fun and you're going to ignore them the whole time? Lamesauce with a side of awkward and a dash of weirdo.* Say hi, ask them if they've ridden the ride before, have they been to the park before, tell them how much of a geek you are... Trust me it makes life more fun. *I know... its like the recipe for coaster enthusiasts. This is generally what I do when I have to ride a coaster solo. Fortunately, my son is now over 48", so that happen less often than it used to. But on one occasion I was at Worlds of Fun riding Prowler (my son was not tall enough at this point), and I queued for the back row. A coaster enthusiast asked if he could join me, and of course I said yes. Makes the queue shorter for everybody. So I chatted with this guy for a minute, and he revealed to me that he's an ACE member and also enjoys furry parties.... Yeah.... So on that occasion, I think just riding a coaster in silence with a stranger would have been less awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 ^ Haha! That's great. But even then, you had something to laugh/talk about, and made a memory you still remember today. I said that as we watched that rideop clean up puke at Batman the other day while we all tried to guess what the guy had eaten - we're making memories! Lol For real tho sitting next to someone you don't know in silence on a rollercoaster of all things is just about the most awkward thing ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytterbiumanalyst Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Exactly. I don't think I'm ever going to forget that guy. More often, it's a positive experience. Back in 2013, I met an Australian doctor going to a medical conference in Spokane, Washington, who took a minor detour to Branson to ride Outlaw Run. Only 2,000 miles out of the way! In his shoes, though, I totally would have done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I take it from the implied joke ... that Dorney is not very crowded? "Not very crowded" is an understatement. The water park is the only reason that place still exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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