MiABeta Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Literally rode it yesterday. I have bad amusement park luck. One time we were in Orlando and one monorail at Disney broke, we went to Universal and the day we were there Rip Ride Rockit was stuck/ broken down for 2 hours, the time before last i went to cedar point was when Iron Dragon's chain broke and the guy got his leg stuck in the gate. WTF. Anyway yesterday was a good day with a dusk ride on TTD and a night ride on GateKeeper. Oh also someone vomited slightly on Millennium force. Only covered five cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunaSled Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Oh also someone vomited slightly on Millennium force. Only covered five cars. Oh dear... I've seen plenty of after-ride vomit and even pre-ride but (luckily) I've never experienced an on-train hurl. Imagine being the puker, oh the embarrasment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koasterking48 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Edit: never mind Edited July 17, 2015 by Koasterking48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Apparently Rougarou has valleyedhttps://twitter.com/JoshuaGregory10/status/621807433468506112/photo/1 I bet it came to a stop in the mid course. It's almost scary how slowly it comes back to the station during morning block checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Peck Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Mantis/Rougouru was designed to come to a full stop on the mid-course block (if needed) and still be able to finish the circuit. My first thought was a locked wheel or something creating too much friction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Mantis/Rougouru was designed to come to a full stop on the mid-course block (if needed) and still be able to finish the circuit. Yes... you're right of course but if you watch Rougarou on a block check it crawls back to the station so slowly that you'd swear it was going to valley. I'd imagine even a minor issue with a wheel or something combined with a stop on the mid course would spell big problems. Here's a video of what I mean. The ride had previously valleyed and was being pulled up to the mid course. When it goes behind the trees you'll see that there's a point where it can't be going more than a few MPH (go to 1:43). Obviously every coaster goes slower than normal once it re-starts from a dead stop on the mid course but this ride really pushes it. Also, it seems to go even slower through that section with the new trains than it did with the old, most likely much heavier trains. [vimeo] [/vimeo] EDIT: And in that video you'll see they started the drop and then stopped it so they could push it and give it extra momentum because they knew it needed all the help it could get. It's actually pretty funny to watch. Edited July 17, 2015 by coasterbill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Mantis/Rougouru was designed to come to a full stop on the mid-course block (if needed) and still be able to finish the circuit. My first thought was a locked wheel or something creating too much friction. It may have been designed to come to a full stop on the mid-course if needed, and still be able to finish the circuit... But Mantis itself had valleyed before as well. Not with people on it, only during morning test runs... However, it still happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 At least they got some hangtime on that flat spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think the safest thing would be to add booster tires to the MCBR. Although a stop on the MCBR is uncommon, its better to have that backup so that situations like this do not become common. There is a good chance that there are a lot of tweaks being made to the wheels and trains still, as this is only the halfway point of its first season. The layout of the ride, or the new trains themselves may be putting a lot of stress on the wheels, and especially the bearings. Bearings reduce friction between the wheels and the axle (basically speaking). If they are starting to wear, the friction could be causing enough drag to slow the train down excessively. Cedar Fair and B&M are still probably working closely to ensure this conversion will work over a long range of time. For now I would expect a lot more tweaks made to the trains and wheels to reduce as much friction as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Peck Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think some of you may have misunderstood my post, or I wasn't clear enough. I was commenting on a post where someone mentioned to ease off on the midcourse brakes, and i was just stating how the ride could be stopped there and still make it back (unless there are unforeseen circumstances). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Whatever the problem is (if there is one), I'm sure B&M will work with CP or is working with CP to resolve the issue and it won't be a problem long term. It honestly kind of looks like a freak thing where all chips fell into place for the rollback to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnumFreak25 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Rides valley all the time, especially at Cedar Point. there was probably just a strong gust of wind at the wrong time. Combine that with colder temperatures it could cause this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrachenfireOP Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think everyone is forgetting the most obvious thing here: MANTIS was designed not to vally (although I guess it did during testing). There are new trains with a different center of mass on an old track. That's going to cause problems enough on its own. I doubt a blown wheel would cause this. However, maybe something dropped off a rider down onto the wheels? They have a guard, but that can only do so much. It only takes a little bit to lose an exponential amount of speed. Has a train ever vallied with people on it at CP before? Certainly can't be common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrillrider Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Last year mantis vallied in or near the same spot. I have a picture somewhere. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrachenfireOP Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ^ with people though, or during testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricUncleSam Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ^ with people though, or during testing? Mantis is seeking revenge for her early grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Hero Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ^ In all seriousness though, I think the new trains have something to do with it. It's an old track with new trains with a different heartline (if that even matters), so it may run/pace differently. However, in the off ride pov's it looked like it was hauling, much faster than as Mantis. Rides do valley sometimes at CP like Raptor for example so this isn't anything too major. At least at the point where it valleyed it would be a relatively easy evac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcurry11 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The center of mass would effect the pace more then the heartline. As it has been said, the new trains that were not completely designed for this track create some problems, and it was a definite possibility that something like this was going to happen sometime in the first year. I'm sure that CP will do anything possible from preventing this again, but sometimes accidents happen, what can you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 However, in the off ride pov's it looked like it was hauling, much faster than as Mantis. Between the lack of braking on the first drop and the minimal mid course braking the ride really does haul through the course. Unless something went wrong with the train I don't think this ride would ever valley unless it stopped in the mid course, which I'm sure it did. Edit: Also, hats off to Fox 8 in Cleveland for having some journalistic integrity with their headline... Cedar Point’s Rougarou roller coaster stops, riders exit safely If this were Charlotte, we'd be hearing about how riders were stranded helplessly all while flying helicopters over the park during test runs... then making a news story about the ride sending empty trains, and then making another story when riders were "stranded" a few feet outside the station for like 10 minutes and then when reporting how "another ride" (the kiddy coaster) was stuck while only showing b roll of Intimidator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Hero Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ^Kudos to them for not making it a clickbait headliner like "Rougarou coaster at Cedar Point strands riders helplessly for hours" or something like that. Also that hypothetical situation would also apply if this were in England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellynn4 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If this were Charlotte, we'd be hearing about how riders were stranded helplessly all while flying helicopters over the park during test runs... then making a news story about the ride sending empty trains, and then making another story when riders were "stranded" a few feet outside the station for like 10 minutes and then when reporting how "another ride" (the kiddy coaster) was stuck while only showing b roll of Intimidator. Or the United Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricUncleSam Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Mantis/Rougouru was designed to come to a full stop on the mid-course block (if needed) and still be able to finish the circuit. Yes... you're right of course but if you watch Rougarou on a block check it crawls back to the station so slowly that you'd swear it was going to valley. I'd imagine even a minor issue with a wheel or something combined with a stop on the mid course would spell big problems. Here's a video of what I mean. The ride had previously valleyed and was being pulled up to the mid course. When it goes behind the trees you'll see that there's a point where it can't be going more than a few MPH (go to 1:43). Obviously every coaster goes slower than normal once it re-starts from a dead stop on the mid course but this ride really pushes it. Also, it seems to go even slower through that section with the new trains than it did with the old, most likely much heavier trains. [vimeo] [/vimeo] EDIT: And in that video you'll see they started the drop and then stopped it so they could push it and give it extra momentum because they knew it needed all the help it could get. It's actually pretty funny to watch. It wont play for some reason. Is it on YouTube somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I don't believe so, I think it's only on Vimeo. So anyway, I was thinking about this and can I ask a ridiculously nerdy question that would all be speculation anyway? So one train valleyed and the other stopped on the lift and they were walked down. I'm assuming that stop was probably done manually by an alert ride operator pressing E-Stop, correct? I would think that it couldn't have possibly been a block stop because the block ahead of the lift was clear... so in theory the ride would have dropped off the lift and stopped in the mid course right? If this was the case based on having absolutely no knowledge of Cedar Point's procedures or how to operate a coaster, I guess the (very sound) logic would have been either... 1) It's probably much easier to have people walk down the lift than down the spiral staircase on the mid course. 2) You can never be too careful and even though they block check every day and it passes every day an extra block is always a good thing. What do you guys think? I'm just thinking out loud with no real knowledge of anything surrounding the situation, but it would seem to me that if a ride op noticed the valleyed train and e-stopped the coaster then they should be commended for their heads up decision making (even though I'm sure even if they didn't notice everything would have still been fine). Then again maybe I'm wrong and for some reason the ride did detect a problem and stop the lift... I don't know, and because I'm a nerd I'm curious. lol Edited July 17, 2015 by coasterbill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ^ It depends on how the PLC was programmed. The computer could have very well stopped the coaster is it did not detect a train in the brake run within a certain time frame. The panel is set to how many trains are being run at the time, and the computer has to detect where all three are in a time frame in a block. The best way to tell would be to see a picture of where on the lift the train stopped. The computer would have stopped it at a set point (middle or top), as an operator would likely stop it at a different point, or as soon as they noticed that the train did valley. Edit: Seeing that the train stopped on the lift at the top, in the position that it did, the computer could very well have shut down the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrachenfireOP Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ^ and ^^ B&Ms have an "over travel speed" and "under travel speed" alarm fault. It's a very simple fault. Going from end of block X to start of block Y should take Z seconds. If it takes more than a certain number of seconds over Z, it is going too slow. If it is more than a few seconds under Z, it is too fast. These do not e-stop the ride, because in most cases, the problem can be fixed by adjusting trim breaks, and an over/under travel alarm does not mean a catastrophic failure in it's own right. Most slow trains can still clear the circuit, and most fast trains can still be stopped by normal braking. It does however set off the master alarm and read a fault code on the display system, so the operator knew as a few seconds after the train failed to clear it's block in time, if they didn't already notice the vally. What likely happened is the alarm went off for an over travel. The operator probably pushed a ride stop or lift stop until figuring out what caused it (ride stops and lift stops are very easy to reset. E-stops are not). Then, after seeing the train had vallied, they likely hit the e-stop for safety. Another possibility is that a platform worker saw the train vally and hit an e-stop near their panel. Also, to the people thinking the lighter trains are the reason it goes faster, they are not. Heavier trains go faster, that's just physics (which is why they loaded the stuck train up with people before re-sending in the above video, and why I said a train valleying with people is more rare). It's all about that potential energy baby! In fact, the reason Alpengeist has a zero car on it is because the original trains were too light to guarantee a safe circuit during block testing, so they added the zero car after the fact. That zero car weighs 1500lbs! The reason Rougarou is faster than Mantis under normal operation is because they aren't using the trim brakes on the drop, and are barely using them on the block brakes (MCBR). With trims off, the Mantis trains would likely move faster on weight alone. Of course, there's another component to it: Stand up trains pick up more wind-resistance, which has a big effect on speed too. Long story short, it's shocking to see a floorless coaster valley, but I guess if winds cause this at CP from time to time, it's not super shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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