Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[AndrewRnR]

I rode first train out on Millennium Force the other morning and it was running much faster with more airtime in late afternoon of the 80 degree day. If you want to be an uber nerd a quick way to tell how fast it is running is by timing it - depending on the weather ride time will vary upwards of 10 seconds. It usually averages around 60/61 seconds from top of lift to brakes, it sometimes starts out north of 65 seconds on a cold morning and will get down to 57 seconds as a warm day goes on.

 

It is a catch-22... you can usually grab a few rides on first thing during ERT but they won't be the best vs. waiting in line later in the day (Or just buy Fastlane!).

 

(And no I didn't time it regularly for the numbers... those were given at a CoasterMania Q&A back in the day).

 

Have any of you recent visitors to Cedar Point seen Gatekeeper statix models for sale? The webstore stopped selling them, and they aren't able to send me one from a gift shop inside the park, my only shot is someone picking one up for me. Please help if you can, I will tip well!

 

I looked this past weekend throughout the park and couldn't find them.

[B&MBoy1982]

I've always had good luck with airtime on Millennium Force (morning, midday and night on fairly hot days). I like to ride in the middle or towards the back. I've heard before about an unexpected ideal row in that area; may have been 5.1. While it's way too popular to be at all underrated, I think MF doesn't always get the credit it deserves.

 

I disagree, it gets more credit than it deserves. It's just okay IMO. It's voted in the top 5 steel every year. It's overrated. There are a lot better rides out there. I used to really love it, but times and rides change.

 

 

What is up with everyone and MF anyway?!

 

SKYRUSH is better!

 

Leviathan is Better!

 

They must have fallen and hit their heads.

 

I have only gotten airtime on MF a couple times, and in row 3 only.

 

On Leviathan and Skyrush, I got airtime on every single ride, no matter what seat I was in!

[coasternut]

^ Amen brother... Although, I'm not a big fan of SkyRush, but the airtime is definitely there.

[FeelTheFORCE]

All a matter of opinion. I think Leviathan is just as boring as every other cookie-cutter B&M I've been on.

[coasterlover420]

I believe what revolutionized MF in the first place are the reasons people still love it. 300 foot lift, wonderful 80* drop, huge sweeping turns, speed that never lets up, good consistent airtime, no laterals, positive G's that will make most gray out (emphasis on MOST, not all people experience it), tiny tiny lapbars, comfortable seats, great capacity, large layout, perfect opportunity for good on-ride photos, amazing view of the lake and the park, and smooth transitions.

 

The reason enthusiasts get a stick up their butt about it being so highly rated is that most if not all of these factors have been passed up in the past few years. We now have extreme negative g's, beyond vertical drops, crazy laterals, clamshell lapbars, extreme positive g's that make everybody black out, etc...but these kinds of things are not for everyone, whereas what MF has to offer is. You don't usually get GP who get off of MF disappointed unless they are kids who were scared. After riding other types of coasters, enthusiasts are basically looking for reasons they won't like a coaster, especially MF since it's now mostly known as boring. I would personally say the same thing about new gen B&M hypers, but that wouldn't mean I'd get off the ride saying "wow that was boring." I like to focus on the parts of a coaster I like, rather than the parts I don't. Even if 80% of a coaster was boring, and 20% exciting, I'd still love the coaster for the 20% exciting it is. I do prefer that the exciting part be at the end of the ride, which is exactly why I'd rate MF higher than Leviathan, even though I prefer the first 20 seconds of Leviathan over the first 20 seconds of MF. My point is that some people don't like MF because they like something very specific about riding coasters, whether it's laterals, quick transitions, negative g's, compact layout...you name it. MF puts together a whole package that would satisfy everyone, and I think that's what enthusiasts don't like. At least this is what I've observed.

[tororific]

Yup, I agree with the above. MF is for the general public, more than the enthusiast. It remains so highly rate (overrated?) partly because it was the first giga and because it is located in a very high profile park. I went to CP with a bunch of non-enthusiasts last week, and for all them, MF was the "BEST" ride at the park, whereas i would generally take Magnum or Maverick or even Raptor or Blue Streak in the rain over MF.

 

But I started to see MF through their eyes and had some great rides on it. I have come around to appreciate it more.

[yankeeman311]

I find Millennium Force to be completely overrated. When I was at CP, I got off Maverick and the guy next to me said he thought that was the best ride in the park. I loved it but was surprised at the time to hear someone liked it better than MF. But when I got off MF, I completely understood why. MF has a lack of airtime that it needs in order to be an elite ride IMO. Speed by itself doesn't make a ride enjoyable unless it's launched for me. I've ridden only 72 coasters but MF barely makes my top 25 overall when Maverick and Magnum are in my top 5. Having ridden Skyrush, El Toro, Manta, Storm Runner, Phoenix, etc. I can really say the best thing about MF is the view. Even the drop was disapponting. It can be a ride you have fun on but it's not a ride I find great or incredible.

 

At Hershey I got a joke going that Skyrush is what MF wishes it was .

[singemfrc]

I'm going to be at the park for the first time this weekend and am flying out Monday morning. Does anyone have a highway that should be avoided or sought during Monday morning rush hour? I was planning on taking the turnpike from Sandusky back to CLE...just don't want to get stuck in bumper to bumper all the way there and miss my flight.

[Mr Clutch]

Cedar Point Friday the 13th HallowWeekend ALL Coaster Club Event! Link: https://www.cedarpoint.com/online-fun/zhs-vip-night

 

Get in the park at 4:00pm to ride Millennium Force and GateKeeper plus exclusive SCARE time at the NEW Zombie High School

but you must pre register!

 

Below copied from the CP site:

 

SCHOOL'S BACK IN SESSION - AND YOU'RE LATE FOR DETENTION!

 

 

You are cordially invited to get a sneak peek of the NEW Zombie High School haunted house in September - on Friday the 13th!

 

Join us for an evening of food, rides, scares and screams!

 

 

 

 

CLASS SCHEDULE

 

4-5 PM: Exclusive ride time on Millennium Force and GateKeeper

 

5-6 PM: Enjoy Early Entry rides

 

6-8 PM: The lunch lady serves you at Midway Market

 

7-8 PM: Exclusive SCARE time at the NEW Zombie High School

 

8-MID: Enjoy Friday the 13th at HalloWeekends

 

 

 

CLASS NOTES

 

 

 

Event is open to Cedar Point's invited guests and individuals that belong to a valid coaster club.

Non-coaster-club invitees are welcome to bring 1 guest.

All coaster club members attending this event MUST have a valid coaster club membership and must present their card upon entry.

Coaster Club Members: Although the form allows the selection of 1 or 2 guests, you must register INDIVIDUALLY.

Zombie High School is not recommended for young children.

Limited ride availability on Friday nights during HalloWeekends.

 

RSVP

 

Please fill out the information below. Once the info is filled out, check in is at Guest Services, located at the right side of the main entrance to Cedar Point. No further action is necessary.

[haydn12]

I cannot understand the comments such lack of airtime. I've ridden MF a couple hundred times in almost every seat and have had airtime every single time!

 

I prefer coasters that deliver speed, airtime and don't beat the crap out of you or give a headache. That's why I like MF over coasters such as Maverick. I can ride MF a dozen times in a row without problems. Maverick I can do once and then it's time to move on to something else.

 

Jim

[ernierocker]

I cannot understand the comments such lack of airtime.

 

It's simple. Compared to other coasters like Phoenix, El Toro and even Outlaw Run, Millennium Force is lacking in airtime. The most airtime on the ride for me is on the little bunny hop next to the station. The two main "airtime" hills are more floater airtime and not anywhere near ejector.

[Hilltopper39]

^The first drop is pretty nice, but otherwise yeah I've always felt MF left a little to be desired in the airtime department (and in the exciting department).

[therick311]

I went to CP in July and rode MF multiple times during the morning, afternoon and night. Every ride I took delivered good airtime on the drop, and all 3 airtime hills. However, after reading this thread, it looks like I may have had the perfect conditions for this coaster. It was hot and humid the entire week we were there, and all of our rides were near the front of the train.

 

That being said, is MF an airtime machine? No. Does it try to throw you clear across the park? No. But the airtime was there. My reaction on the brakes of my first ride was "Millenium Forceless my ass!"

[2012jarrett]

I went to CP in July and rode MF multiple times during the morning, afternoon and night. Every ride I took delivered good airtime on the drop, and all 3 airtime hills. However, after reading this thread, it looks like I may have had the perfect conditions for this coaster. It was hot and humid the entire week we were there, and all of our rides were near the front of the train.

 

That being said, is MF an airtime machine? No. Does it try to throw you clear across the park? No. But the airtime was there. My reaction on the brakes of my first ride was "Millenium Forceless my A$$!"

This.

 

I rode it twice in 2011 on a humid day when it rained as in 2013 at night. It was a forceful airtime machine in 2013, but MAN it was running better in 2011. 73 credits and it's my number one.

 

I'll admit, however, that my taste in coasters differs vastly from other enthusiasts. The biggest factor in how I rate rides is whether or not it's fun. I'm going to BGT this November and fully expect Cheetah Hunt to take my number two spot from Maverick. Millennium has just the right balance of fun and scary (I don't care how many times I ride, the station and the lift never fail to freak me out!) to be the perfect coaster in my book. Scary enough to notice but not enough to ruin your fun.

 

Plus, that airtime hop towards the end in the back. <3

[coasterbill]

So we went to Cedar Point over Labor Day weekend and had a great time. Here's my TR.

 

We left right from my office in New York on Thursday night and got there around 1:00 in the morning. We spent 3 days at the park and got there for early entry each day and stayed until the park closed. The forecast was questionable but every day turned out to be gorgeous with very few clouds in the sky by mid afternoon. This was my first trip since 2006 and my girlfriend's first trip ever. We had an unbelievable time, and though we were prepared to buy Fastlane Plus we didn't need to. Lines were short on Friday, and on Saturday and Sunday they weren't a problem if you started at the back of the park and worked your way forward (Raptor and Gatekeeper had full queues in the morning but got down to about 30 minutes later on).

 

I'm not going to bore you with details on every ride, but here are a few key points. I'll start with the good things... and then get to the one negative (also known as the rain policy).

 

Millennium Force: This has been my favorite coaster since I first rode it in 2001 (I've now been on 197 coasters total, not that I'm a nerd or anything lol) but after hearing the negative reviews from coaster enthusiasts and seeing how Bizarro at SFNE has deteriorated and become extremely rattly I had my concerns. I was actually ready to declare El Toro my new favorite coaster but wanted to give Millennium Force one more ride first to make sure and I'm so glad I did.

 

The first day we were there we rode this coaster in the front first thing in the morning and at night in the same seat. It was an amazing experience. The view from the top is breathtaking, and the speed never lets up. One thing this coaster has over i305 is that it's close proximity to trees, tunnels and buildings enhances the sensation of speed, and speed is really what this ride is all about.

 

The second and third day we were at the park we made this the last ride of the night and sat in the back of the train. I know it seems to be a widely accepted fact that this coaster has no airtime but this really isn't the case at all. You have great airtime all the way down the first drop (we're not talking El Toro here… but it's still significant) and on the hills exiting the first tunnel and entering the second tunnel you get ejector airtime (again… we're not talking El Toro here but it's great airtime). I also loved the last over banked turn and the over banked turn on the island in the back seat because of the way you get pulled through the second half of the turns at such high speeds. Like I said before… the relentless speed is why I love this ride.

 

Millennium Force is still my favorite coaster, it's a front seat ride during the day and a back seat ride at night.

 

GateKeeper: I was nervous about this coaster because I've heard everything from "painful" to "boring" from enthusiasts but this is a great ride.

 

I think it's important that I say that every time we rode it we rode it in the front (though we did switch sides) so it's very possible that that's why we didn't have any issues with it. This coaster is a ton of fun, the keyholes are really cool and the pretzel is great. I did find the bar on the inside seats a little annoying as I kept banging into it but in the outside seats this coaster is exceptional. You really do get a sensation of flight and I think it's one of the best coasters at Cedar Point. We found this coaster to be very smooth, but again we only rode in the front seat. This is now my girlfriend's favorite coaster (she's ridden Phoenix, i305, Bizarro at SFNE, El Toro and Millennium Force, I don't get it but I don't have to I guess, lol).

 

Raptor: I think every enthusiast has at least one coaster that they can't get enough of that everyone else completely overlooks. For me, this coaster is Raptor.

 

I love old school inverts, and this coaster has the great intensity that the newer B&M coasters lack. This coaster can be a little bumpy, but just like Gatekeeper we only ride it in the front and the only issues at all are in the cobra roll and on the last turn and they're very minimal. Every inversion on this coaster is taken at a high speed and is very compact which makes for a very intense ride. I haven't ridden Montu or Nemesis which i've heard are the cream of the crop, but out of the inverts I've ridden (Afterburn, a few Batman clones, Talon, Great Bear, Silver Bullet , Aplengeist and a few others I'm forgetting) Raptor is my favorite.

 

Maverick: When we walked up to this ride I didn't know what to think, because despite the overwhelmingly positive reports it doesn't look like much. After riding it, I think this is my second favorite coaster at the park (right after Millennium Force). I held onto the restraints so they didn't really bother me at all and was reminded a lot of i305 with the insanely quick lateral transitions. This coaster also has some great airtime and that awesome launch mid-way through. Maverick has a little bit of everything, and it completely blew it away.

 

Operations: One thing I've always loved about Cedar Point is the ride ops. They make riding the coasters an event, and walk around with wireless headsets trying to get the people on the ride and in line excited about the coaster they're about to ride and encouraging them to yell and scream. I don't think other parks do this nearly enough, and it's great to see such charismatic ride ops. They're also very quick on all of the coasters (except for Mantis which probably has more to do with the trains than the operators) and rarely stack trains.

 

Rain Policy: Cedar Point's rain policy is completely asinine. From what I can tell, this is how it works

 

If someone in the state of Ohio briefly thinks about rain, Iron Dragon closes.

 

If there is actually a drop of rain anywhere in the park every single ride closes except for the car rides, the covered flat rides, a few random flat rides, the sky ride, the train and any coaster made by B&M. At one point it rained pretty hard (only for about 5 minutes) and Gatekeeper, Raptor and Mantis never closed.

 

And the best part is that if it drizzles, Snake River Falls closes. There was actually a point where Dragster was sending full trains of riders and Snake River falls was closed due to weather conditions (we asked the person out front to make sure it wasn't mechanical). Why you would ever close a ride that gets you this incredibly soaked because of rain I'll never understand. Does anyone have any insight into why this ridiculous policy exists on Snake River Falls? The whole point of the ride is that it creates tidal wave of water that soaks the boats, everyone in them, everyone on the bridge and everything nearby… yet one drop of rain causes it to close.

 

Luckily the periods of rain were brief, and the weekend was mostly sunny, but this policy is completely stupid, and a lot of guests were getting upset. I would understand it on Dragster and maybe even Millennium Force but that's about it. They take it to an unreasonable extreme.

 

--------

 

Overall we had a great time. We stayed at a Super 8 about 10 minutes away for 50 bucks a night on Labor Day weekend, so with a Platinum Pass you can have a great mini vacation for just a few hundred dollars.

 

All of their coasters are enjoyable except for Mantis, Corkscrew and Mean Streak and they have some great flats to balance them out (our favorite was Maxair which was closed all day Saturday and Sunday for some reason). The park as a whole is beautiful, they have the best location of any park I've ever been to. One day we did go to TGI Fridays at Hotel Breakers for dinner and got to sit outside and watch the sunset on the lake with Windseeker and the Ferris Wheel putting on a light show a few hundred yards away and I couldn't help but marvel at the great location the park has. I think this is going to be a Labor Day tradition from now on.

[rcjp]

^Nice report! I totally agree about raptor, I love it! My favourite invert and I found it to be very smooth (apart from the cobra roll and that last turn, as you mentioned). I also liked my first ride on gatekeeper a lot (2nd row) and, overall, it's really fun. It's just that I got a few nasty vibrations closer to the back.

It also rained a bit while I was there and it was pretty much like you said, all B&Ms were running and we kept in that area around gatekeeper, maxair,... I found a bit curious that one of the excuses they gave us for closing some coasters in the rain were the brakes (that supposedly don't work as well) and then all B&Ms were running and they rely exclusively on friction brakes which, unlike magnetic ones, may get affected when it rains, except for gatekeeper which has two magnetic ones but it's still mostly friction. This is why I like B&M so much, they're reliable and operate in several environments.

[Double0Kevin]

They must have changed their rain policy. I've been on MF in pouring down rain. The only time I've seen them have mass shut downs is when there is lightning. As for Iron Dragon, that thing slips like crazy when the brakes get wet so I believe the fear is that it would run into another train in the station possibly.

[rcjp]

^ Yeah I believe I saw MF operating when it was raining. As for Iron Dragon I don't know, wasn't in that area. Wasn't it magnum that once collided with another train?

[AndrewRnR]

The rain policy was drastically changed (to be much more conservative) following a small accident with Magnum back in 2007 (on the day Maverick opened). Before that rides ran in light/medium rain (save for lightening) but since the accident was chalked up to rain the park instantly began not running rides at all in the rain or reducing down to one train operation. I was there on Sunday and a light drizzle caused Millennium Force to shut down instantly.

 

The difference between Iron Dragon and a B&M - really any Arrow vs a B&M is that Arrow's brakes are spring open/pressure close vs B&M which are spring close/pressure open. Since Arrow brake's are set to open without force the park must see that as more of an issue in the rain. (Also why, for example, you will see on Magnum the cars chained up at night - so that if the air pressure is lost the train doesn't roll down the track).

[2012jarrett]

I've seen then shut Maverick down in the rain. It was drizzling lightly and they shut it down while we were queuing. And later it started raining while we were on the ride and it was SICK!!! Now wind, on the other hand, I know causes trouble.

 

Though I am curious as to whether or not they operate Millennium in the rain, since I've seen posts saying they both do and don't here. It has magnetic brakes; those aren't affected by rain are they? This should include Maverick too, it has magnetic brakes and I've seen it go down in a drizzle. Why?

 

I know it isn't adding much to the conversation and I bet nobody cares, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Cedar Point's online store is having a sale on Coasterdynamix Statix. I was looking for one of those GateKeeper trains mentioned a page or two back and while I didn't find it, I did find that they're selling Maverick, Dragster, and Millennium train models for 14.99. I just bought a blue Milennium train that I never bought before since it was overpriced, but now it's a steal. Again, I don't expect four pages about this but I know we've talked about those models here before and I found it worth mentioning.

[coasterlover420]

Why does Millennium shut down in rain? Drive tires.

 

All Arrow and B&M coasters have a forceful friction brake to stop trains, but Millennium is stopped completely with the drive tires. The way it's designed, the magnetic brakes stay open even when the block is considered closed, so the train will slip right over the drive tires because the bottom of the trains consists of nothing but diamond-plated steel, which is pretty slick even when it's not wet. Also, when the train in Waiting begins to move into Unload, it will slip (so basically it won't move), and the train flying up the lift will stop. Typically going down to 2 or 1 train operation will bypass this problem, but sometimes storms last so quickly that capacity will actually be better just waiting for the storm to pass. Transferring trains on and off takes forever.

 

This goes for Maverick and Dragster too.

[2012jarrett]

Why does Millennium shut down in rain? Drive tires.

 

All Arrow and B&M coasters have a forceful friction brake to stop trains, but Millennium is stopped completely with the drive tires. The way it's designed, the magnetic brakes stay open even when the block is considered closed, so the train will slip right over the drive tires because the bottom of the trains consists of nothing but diamond-plated steel, which is pretty slick even when it's not wet. Also, when the train in Waiting begins to move into Unload, it will slip (so basically it won't move), and the train flying up the lift will stop. Typically going down to 2 or 1 train operation will bypass this problem, but sometimes storms last so quickly that capacity will actually be better just waiting for the storm to pass. Transferring trains on and off takes forever.

 

This goes for Maverick and Dragster too.

Just so I'm sure I understand, the train goes over and rolls the drive tire, which triggers the magnetic brakes to clamp over the train? Sorry if I sound stupid, I'm just a tad confused.

[CoasterLine]

Why does Millennium shut down in rain? Drive tires.

 

All Arrow and B&M coasters have a forceful friction brake to stop trains, but Millennium is stopped completely with the drive tires. The way it's designed, the magnetic brakes stay open even when the block is considered closed, so the train will slip right over the drive tires because the bottom of the trains consists of nothing but diamond-plated steel, which is pretty slick even when it's not wet. Also, when the train in Waiting begins to move into Unload, it will slip (so basically it won't move), and the train flying up the lift will stop. Typically going down to 2 or 1 train operation will bypass this problem, but sometimes storms last so quickly that capacity will actually be better just waiting for the storm to pass. Transferring trains on and off takes forever.

 

This goes for Maverick and Dragster too.

 

You're wrong about how MF is slowed and stopped at the end of the ride. There are two sets of brakes on MF, both fixed position magnetic brakes (the first set of brakes before the slight right turn), and then a second set of release magnetic brakes (which acts as the "holding" brake right behind the unload station).

 

There are no drive tires until the one single drive tire right behind the unloading station, which moves the train from holding to unload. The reason for the closure during rain, you are correct in that drive tires are the issue, as the train will slip on the drive tires (behind the unload and between unload and load). However, the trains are completely slowed and stopped by the magnetic brakes.

[coasterlover420]

^&^^I operated the ride all summer, I know this is how it works. Yes there are 2 sets of brakes, one which function as the main brakes and are fixed. The retracting brakes in the waiting block only function to slow the train down, not to stop it. The train is stopped by the one set of drive tires in the waiting block, and when the train is parked, the brakes remain down away from the train. This video proves my point. Watch from 3:00 and you will see the brakes retract just before the drive tires park the train.

 

As you can tell by this video at 2:13, the brakes don't go back up until the block is completely clear.

 

The reason this happens is so that the train is stopped in the same position in the block every single time, but when the tires are wet, the train slips past that specific point and causes the ride to error. The only instance in which the brakes remain closed is when the ride is in manual mode.

Edited September 6, 2013 by coasterlover420

[imagineerz]

However, the trains are completely slowed and stopped by the magnetic brakes.

 

But magnetic braking force is directly proportional to the velocity of the vehicle (change in flux), so it's impossible for a train to be stopped by a magnetic brake unless the fins are made out of steel (steel is directly attracted to magnets), but the attraction to the magnets would be so strong that they would break off of the train, so manufacturers use copper plates instead to create an eddy current brake.

 

The point is, you can't use magnetic brakes to stop a train if you then want to get it moving again, so you have to use a drive tire as the block brake.