coasterbill Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The fact that they have a lot of coasters doesn't address any of the points I made. Also... Another factor to consider is that the companies that built Goliath and X2 are no longer in business. So when those lift chains broke, they had to find someone who could custom manufacture replacements and this resulted in extended down times. It's a completely difference scenario than if a lift chain went down on Batman or Green Lantern. On my last visit to CP, TTD and Maverick both broke down multiple times each day. However, I don't see people complaining about how terrible CP's maintenance staff are or how cheap the park is. Dragster and Maverick are Dragster and Maverick. Of course they broke down during the course of the day... it's kind of their thing. We're not talking about periodic breakdowns throughout the day, we're talking about breakdowns that cause the rides to be down for months at a time. Also, the ride manufacturer doesn't matter at all. Giovannola and Arrow most likely never made the chains to begin with and I'd imagine they're all pretty standard. Generally they're contracted out to companies like this, or this, or this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbatboy Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I honestly think corporate (which is run by bean counters vs Cedar Fair which is run by a former chief executive for Disney) just squeeze every dime they can out of this park. The park prints money without them putting in much effort. Put in a new ride every two years, paint the ground near the entrance and VOILA! They like seeing those huge returns from MM, so as long as they can get away with giving MM meager maintenance budgets and still get 3 million guests through the gate a year, they're content with that. Though Six Flags is known for being lackadaisical chain-wide, I think they put more effort into the other parks because they have to. MM is the only park in the chain that's exclusively a NON-family park. Ratchet teenagers don't necessarily care about dirty pathways, un-kept bathrooms, etc; They want big thrills, and MM has them...not to mention the 2nd largest metropolitan area in the U.S. which to draw guests from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garet Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I think the point is that SFMM is a unique park that is in a one of a kind situation, and it's easy to forget that. Aside from Cedar Point (which does have an off season), name another year round park with as many coasters. Nagashima Spa Land has 13 and a few nice flats. I know it's not 19, but I would much rather go there year-round and wait for coasters running with great efficiency and capacity than be frustrated at SFMM trying to get 19. But then again I'd pick most Japan parks over going anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cj1990 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I still am not seeing having an off season as being an excuse at all. For example, ther parks order back up parts and have them on hand just in case a chain motor breaks. SFMM doesn't get any passes because as they are year round, they should be proactive about ride maintenance, not reactive. In my eyes, they are being cheap, bottom line. And that's inexcusable when they are such a destination for people. Both locals and tourists alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I would guess that if you went through the warehouses of every major theme park---none keep every part they need in stock. That would cost an insane amount of money and take up an insane amount of space. What seems to be the difference between SFMM and other parks is how quickly parts not in stock get ordered when they fail. Hard to know what the reason for that actually is. Could be their vendor, could be them being cheap, could be designing an upgrade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelwee Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Wood Coaster Developments Ltd. posted pictures on their Facebook page this morning of the Apocalypse retrack. They just started this week. Day 2 California, Removed all running steel and track sections cut ready to be lifted off. Over 400ft of new laminates to be replaced. Amuse has really got to go for it on this one! The Hammer Bro's and WCD Ltd are doing their thing, making the ride more enjoyable for the patrons. Life is still a rollercoaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 They just started this week. So wait, it's been closed for 3 months and they just started track work this week? If I'm understanding that correctly then this seems like a budget cut in disguise (at least up until this point). Then again, they're not the only park guilty of that type of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 If the ride sucked, I honestly don't blame them for closing it until it's ready---working out details on who is responsible (I'm assuming SFMM's first move was to blame GCI and ask them to do the work under warranty) and finding a vendor to do it after that does take some time. But I also don't doubt SFMM shopped for the cheapest bidder---which means the ride will suck again a few months after being re-tracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Genuine question: What is the root cause of wooden track riding so rough after a while? Is it that the track loses its rigidity so there is more 'play' in the track so to speak? Or is it that starts to give a little between bents? I get that overall the wood just starts to break down, it's wood. But how is it breaking down that causes Apocinator to go from good to bad so fast? (Besides them using the wrong type of wood for the climate it's in) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbatboy Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Didnt someone post a while ago that rides like Apocalypse and Ghostrider got rough quickly because the structures were built to withstand seismic activity, so the track takes a bigger beating because of it?? But then again, Colossus was never as rough as Apocalypse and neither was Psyclone IIRC. Though they were both built before the '94 Northridge earthquake so possibly codes got stricter. The whole saga of Apocalypse is weird, from it being constructed in the same exact spot as the beleaguered Psyclone, to turning a pukey white color, to being the roughest POS in the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Monte Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Genuine question: What is the root cause of wooden track riding so rough after a while? Is it that the track loses its rigidity so there is more 'play' in the track so to speak? Or is it that starts to give a little between bents? I get that overall the wood just starts to break down, it's wood. But how is it breaking down that causes Apocinator to go from good to bad so fast? (Besides them using the wrong type of wood for the climate it's in) I think it's all of the above, creating the perfect storm. On the Ghostrider tour, we were told the structure wasn't given enough play to breath due to earthquake overbuild, and therefore the trains wreaked havoc over a very stiff structure. Add to the mix very hot, dry and sunny conditions, and I'm not really all that surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur_Seaton Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 If the ride sucked, I honestly don't blame them for closing it until it's ready---working out details on who is responsible Yeah, I was thinking that there may have been a bidding war or something going on, but there's little point in keeping it open in the state its in. But how is it breaking down that causes Apocinator to go from good to bad so fast? (Besides them using the wrong type of wood for the climate it's in) I've no idea, but even when running smooth, it's always been an aggressive ride. It hammers its way through the course and has some pretty powerful laterals on it. I've always assumed that the ride has been actively tearing itself up from the get-go because of the design, but that something happened in the last couple of years where SFMM just could no keep up with the required maintenance anymore — hence the swift decline. The whole saga of Apocalypse is weird, from it being constructed in the same exact spot as the beleaguered Psyclone, to turning a pukey white color, to being the roughest POS in the park. I never found Psyclone to be that rough overall — it was more sluggish than anything. But yeah, Apocalypse is way worse that Psyclone ever was now. Which is a shame as it's got one of the best first drops in the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark549 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Add to the mix very hot, dry and sunny conditions, and I'm not really all that surprised. That is my guess. Extreme drought made it happen faster. Drought is probably what caused the tree to fall into the Ninja track, too. Glad to see the rain in California, although out of balance the other way. I wonder if there's a better stain that would help the wood hold up better in the summer heat? Or maybe RMC could fix it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shut It Down Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hey coasterbill how bout stop all the negativity? For real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hey coasterbill how bout stop all the negativity? For real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cj1990 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hey coasterbill how bout stop all the negativity? For real He isn't being negative. He's literally been stating the facts lol. That's just how bad it is. Why are people in such denial to see it? The real people to blame are the ones that refuse to admit it to themselves lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hey coasterbill how bout stop all the negativity? For real Tell me why I'm wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT325 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Genuine question: What is the root cause of wooden track riding so rough after a while? The super-dry climate hurts the wooden structure and track. If it is not replaced and maintained closely, the ride gets rough. Is it that the track loses its rigidity so there is more 'play' in the track so to speak? Or is it that starts to give a little between bents When the track dries out, it gets brittle. It cracks easier; it loses flex. Track begins to warp and presto! Rough ride. But then again, Colossus was never as rough as Apocalypse and neither was Psyclone IIRC. Though they were both built before the '94 Northridge earthquake so possibly codes got stricter. A big factor with Colossus was it's steel I-beam track. This was added in the late 80s or early 90s. It was the opposite of RMCs more modern "topper track." The bottom 6 layers of wood were replaced with a steel I-beam; the top 2 layers were still wood, topped with the standard wooden coaster steel running plate. Another thing with Colossus - that was heavily treated wood, and had coats of paint over it to protect it from the sun. But the saving grace was those steel I-beam tracks. American Eagle at SF Great America has the same I-beam tracks from 1/3rd of the way down the first drop to the top of the helix. Before those (mostly) steel tracks were added, the old wooden track was nearly unbearable (late 80s.) When Texas Giant was new in 1990, it opened with those steel I-beam tracks but only on the pull-out of the very first drop. Six Flags engineers had learned it was better to go with "hybrid track" for the fastest parts of their monster wooden coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Yes I'm sure the dry climate of Southern California doesn't help the ride at all. Although to combat that, there's actually a sprinkler system on the ride that waters it every night during the summer when it's hot and dry out. That's actually why the wood has turned white; the combination of the water and then fire retardant getting blasted in the sun turns the wood white. I guess I find it interesting that the ride is so bad now. Granted I haven't ridden it in a few years, but it's kind of sad considering it's now the only wooden coaster in the park and it's now an unenjoyable ride. I'll have to ride it myself again one of these days just to see how bad it's gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasBaby Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Yes I'm sure the dry climate of Southern California doesn't help the ride at all. Although to combat that, there's actually a sprinkler system on the ride that waters it every night during the summer when it's hot and dry out. That's actually why the wood has turned white; the combination of the water and then fire retardant getting blasted in the sun turns the wood white. I guess I find it interesting that the ride is so bad now. Granted I haven't ridden it in a few years, but it's kind of sad considering it's now the only wooden coaster in the park and it's now an unenjoyable ride. I'll have to ride it myself again one of these days just to see how bad it's gotten. Honestly, I rode it several times last year and didn't think it was too rough. It certainly wasn't as bad as the pre-rehab Ghostrider. I am glad to see it getting some re-tracking though as it has a fun layout and it's just a relentless ride from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philrad71 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 It doesn't seem like that long ago when we did the bash out there and we were all given a tour of the site where Terminator/Apocalypse was rising. At the conclusion, they gave us all a piece of wood used to build it...think that they might want it back now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Monte Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Nice to see them doing some work on this "should be" awesome little wooden coaster. When running well, it's the hidden gem of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyMammoth24 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 How was the experience on Apocalypse during it's debut year? Did it provide any airtime at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonskinny12 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Nice to see them doing some work on this "should be" awesome little wooden coaster. When running well, it's the hidden gem of the park. I could not agree more with this. Anybody going to the park this weekend? I'm curious what the current status is of Tatsu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Nice to see them doing some work on this "should be" awesome little wooden coaster. When running well, it's the hidden gem of the park. I could not agree more with this. Anybody going to the park this weekend? I'm curious what the current status is of Tatsu. They have had a crane on site all week doing the re-installation of the chain and motor. It should hopefully be up tomorrow but I have no confirmation on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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