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Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

p. 550 - Hallowfest trip report!

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I know for a fact that marketing outside of the metro area is huge, but for WisDells and HW to both at the same time hit the STL market isnt just coincidence.... yes WisDaells is more of a tourist destination and has a bigger market, just like SDC, but they never have in the STL before, and now HW TOO!!?? They are absolutely doing so because they know SFSTL is having issues and they are taking advantage by basically saying "hey, for all you that are sick of SFSTL and its generics and lack of so much, COME CHECK US OUT INSTEAD!" As much as I do support my hometown park that Ive grown up with all my life, something needs to change and NOW! No, I DEFINITELY dont think this is an Astroworld situation, but SFSTL will begin to hurt.... trust me... this isnt just a hunch... theres some knowledge behind this. Sadly, I believe its too late to play catch up though. In the past 10 years, SFSTL really needed to focus on infrastructure... landscaping, paving pathways, MAJOR MAJOR upkeep, and the ridding of some of the stubborn management, but they didnt, they just kept polishing a turd. They had a chance during that timeframe to really turn the park around to put it back on the map, instead, they just sat injured and now they are being preyed on. To really put this into perspective and get the competitors from trying to invade our territory, the park would need to close end of September and not reopen until May, and during that 7 month shut down, invest a minimum of $30-$40 mil just in infrastructure and upkeep to make the place look at least somewhat new again... give it a look, and ambiance, then revisit how the park is run and go from there...

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I know for a fact that marketing outside of the metro area is huge, but for WisDells and HW to both at the same time hit the STL market isnt just coincidence.... yes WisDaells is more of a tourist destination and has a bigger market, just like SDC, but they never have in the STL before, and now HW TOO!!?? They are absolutely doing so because they know SFSTL is having issues and they are taking advantage by basically saying "hey, for all you that are sick of SFSTL and its generics and lack of so much, COME CHECK US OUT INSTEAD!" As much as I do support my hometown park that Ive grown up with all my life, something needs to change and NOW! No, I DEFINITELY dont think this is an Astroworld situation, but SFSTL will begin to hurt.... trust me... this isnt just a hunch... theres some knowledge behind this. Sadly, I believe its too late to play catch up though. In the past 10 years, SFSTL really needed to focus on infrastructure... landscaping, paving pathways, MAJOR MAJOR upkeep, and the ridding of some of the stubborn management, but they didnt, they just kept polishing a turd. They had a chance during that timeframe to really turn the park around to put it back on the map, instead, they just sat injured and now they are being preyed on. To really put this into perspective and get the competitors from trying to invade our territory, the park would need to close end of September and not reopen until May, and during that 7 month shut down, invest a minimum of $30-$40 mil just in infrastructure and upkeep to make the place look at least somewhat new again... give it a look, and ambiance, then revisit how the park is run and go from there...

 

I've said it before and I will say it again. Parks outside of the St. Louis area have no effect on SFSTL's attendence. Now if I were to open a park 10mins. down the road it would be a different story. There is no invasion into the STL market. Now if a company came and opened a park near the STL area then yes, that would indeed be a threat to SFSTL's attendence.

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Quick updates from today.

 

JLBFM will be down a bit longer than originally planned as the manufacturer is working through bugs in the system. No official date has been set.

 

If I remember correctly someone mentioned how Fireball need baskets like Freeze has. Well your prayer has been answered, baskets are now located across from each row. Drinks must still be placed in the holder at the exit. Also I rode Fireball for the first time. Must say that I love the hangtime. Thats really the only thing that stood out on the ride.

 

Rode Boss in the last row of yellow train and experienced something that I thought the ride had forgotten years ago how to do. Trimming in C-block. I'm not talking a light dragging of the brakes as the train first enters like it normally does (if it trims at all). I'm talking a hard trim (it was more like the trimming experienced on Ninja than typical Boss). Yellow was screaming through the first half of the ride (especially considering how chilly it was today) it was running so fast the the bunny hop after the double down that normally is just kind of there or give a little airtime was giving a little ejector. Purple was running slower and only needed a light trim (not bad considering its the slowest train out of the three). By far the best ride I have ever gotten out of Boss.

 

Modification are underway at Ninja to prepare for VR. The dock has been extended to create a place to hold the VR cabinet and modifications are being down to the queue.

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Just something I've found interesting... Silverdollar City has always run commercials and ads in the STL area, but suddenly there has been Holiday World commercials running along with Wisconsin Dells commercials.... but Ive seen very very few Sis Flags commercials. With SFSTL not having the best reputation among locals and some enthusiasts over the past decade and then even more so lately, this makes me wonder what this means for the future. These commercials are reaching millions of people, with half of who have never known or heard of these destinations. If this continues the next year or so and SFTSL doesn't really step up their game, do not be surprised to see a dramatic drop in attendance the next few years... less attendance, less income, less income means less upgrades and new goodies, less new goodies and upgrades means even less attendance, and so on and so on.. yes, SFSTL is my home park, yes I am a veteraned employee, yes I sometimes question what the hell SFSTL is doing and thinking, but for the first time, Im actually worried and think if something major doesnt happen soon, what that could mean for SFSTL overall...

 

just something to think about.....

I live in the Springfield metro area, and I don't think I've seen a SDC commercial at all around here. When last we went to Kansas City, we saw two within an hour of watching television. Maybe parks just don't advertise as heavily to the local audience, since they're already aware of the park?

 

Really? We get KY3 up here in JC and there's a SDC commercial during the 10pm news almost every night.

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I know for a fact that marketing outside of the metro area is huge, but for WisDells and HW to both at the same time hit the STL market isnt just coincidence.... yes WisDaells is more of a tourist destination and has a bigger market, just like SDC, but they never have in the STL before, and now HW TOO!!?? They are absolutely doing so because they know SFSTL is having issues and they are taking advantage by basically saying "hey, for all you that are sick of SFSTL and its generics and lack of so much, COME CHECK US OUT INSTEAD!" As much as I do support my hometown park that Ive grown up with all my life, something needs to change and NOW! No, I DEFINITELY dont think this is an Astroworld situation, but SFSTL will begin to hurt.... trust me... this isnt just a hunch... theres some knowledge behind this. Sadly, I believe its too late to play catch up though. In the past 10 years, SFSTL really needed to focus on infrastructure... landscaping, paving pathways, MAJOR MAJOR upkeep, and the ridding of some of the stubborn management, but they didnt, they just kept polishing a turd. They had a chance during that timeframe to really turn the park around to put it back on the map, instead, they just sat injured and now they are being preyed on. To really put this into perspective and get the competitors from trying to invade our territory, the park would need to close end of September and not reopen until May, and during that 7 month shut down, invest a minimum of $30-$40 mil just in infrastructure and upkeep to make the place look at least somewhat new again... give it a look, and ambiance, then revisit how the park is run and go from there...

 

I've said it before and I will say it again. Parks outside of the St. Louis area have no effect on SFSTL's attendence. Now if I were to open a park 10mins. down the road it would be a different story. There is no invasion into the STL market. Now if a company came and opened a park near the STL area then yes, that would indeed be a threat to SFSTL's attendence.

 

I always value your opinions and agree a lot with what you say on here, and Im not trying to argue with you, but they absolutely do. They didnt used to maybe 10 years ago, but they definitely do now, trust me tey do, surveyys dont lie. Not to mention the amount of people who from this area now are not onlu going to HW, but getting season passes there. Now this next part is my opinion, but I truly believe you can see this yourself when walking around the park.... take a look at the type of clientele that walks around SFSTL, its getting trashier and rougher looking all the time, and thats because people that have more money to spend are going elsewhere.

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Just something I've found interesting... Silverdollar City has always run commercials and ads in the STL area, but suddenly there has been Holiday World commercials running along with Wisconsin Dells commercials.... but Ive seen very very few Sis Flags commercials. With SFSTL not having the best reputation among locals and some enthusiasts over the past decade and then even more so lately, this makes me wonder what this means for the future. These commercials are reaching millions of people, with half of who have never known or heard of these destinations. If this continues the next year or so and SFTSL doesn't really step up their game, do not be surprised to see a dramatic drop in attendance the next few years... less attendance, less income, less income means less upgrades and new goodies, less new goodies and upgrades means even less attendance, and so on and so on.. yes, SFSTL is my home park, yes I am a veteraned employee, yes I sometimes question what the hell SFSTL is doing and thinking, but for the first time, Im actually worried and think if something major doesnt happen soon, what that could mean for SFSTL overall...

 

just something to think about.....

I live in the Springfield metro area, and I don't think I've seen a SDC commercial at all around here. When last we went to Kansas City, we saw two within an hour of watching television. Maybe parks just don't advertise as heavily to the local audience, since they're already aware of the park?

 

Really? We get KY3 up here in JC and there's a SDC commercial during the 10pm news almost every night.

Interesting. That's not one of the programmes I watch. Good that they are advertising at least. They're about to get much stiffer competition in Branson than they've had to deal with recently.

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I know for a fact that marketing outside of the metro area is huge, but for WisDells and HW to both at the same time hit the STL market isnt just coincidence.... yes WisDaells is more of a tourist destination and has a bigger market, just like SDC, but they never have in the STL before, and now HW TOO!!?? They are absolutely doing so because they know SFSTL is having issues and they are taking advantage by basically saying "hey, for all you that are sick of SFSTL and its generics and lack of so much, COME CHECK US OUT INSTEAD!" As much as I do support my hometown park that Ive grown up with all my life, something needs to change and NOW! No, I DEFINITELY dont think this is an Astroworld situation, but SFSTL will begin to hurt.... trust me... this isnt just a hunch... theres some knowledge behind this. Sadly, I believe its too late to play catch up though. In the past 10 years, SFSTL really needed to focus on infrastructure... landscaping, paving pathways, MAJOR MAJOR upkeep, and the ridding of some of the stubborn management, but they didnt, they just kept polishing a turd. They had a chance during that timeframe to really turn the park around to put it back on the map, instead, they just sat injured and now they are being preyed on. To really put this into perspective and get the competitors from trying to invade our territory, the park would need to close end of September and not reopen until May, and during that 7 month shut down, invest a minimum of $30-$40 mil just in infrastructure and upkeep to make the place look at least somewhat new again... give it a look, and ambiance, then revisit how the park is run and go from there...

 

I've said it before and I will say it again. Parks outside of the St. Louis area have no effect on SFSTL's attendence. Now if I were to open a park 10mins. down the road it would be a different story. There is no invasion into the STL market. Now if a company came and opened a park near the STL area then yes, that would indeed be a threat to SFSTL's attendence.

 

I always value your opinions and agree a lot with what you say on here, and Im not trying to argue with you, but they absolutely do. They didnt used to maybe 10 years ago, but they definitely do now, trust me tey do, surveyys dont lie. Not to mention the amount of people who from this area now are not onlu going to HW, but getting season passes there. Now this next part is my opinion, but I truly believe you can see this yourself when walking around the park.... take a look at the type of clientele that walks around SFSTL, its getting trashier and rougher looking all the time, and thats because people that have more money to spend are going elsewhere.

 

My family didn't bother to renew our season passes this year for the first time in 20 years. That's at least 4 regulars that didn't renew and I know we weren't the only ones. We might visit once this year - but we'll be perfectly fine not going at all. Nothing has changed to warrant a visit.

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JLBFM will be down a bit longer than originally planned as the manufacturer is working through bugs in the system. No official date has been set.

 

 

Can you give us an estimate on when it will reopen?

 

Unfortunately I can not. If I find out more information I will be sure to pass it along.

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I know for a fact that marketing outside of the metro area is huge, but for WisDells and HW to both at the same time hit the STL market isnt just coincidence.... yes WisDaells is more of a tourist destination and has a bigger market, just like SDC, but they never have in the STL before, and now HW TOO!!?? They are absolutely doing so because they know SFSTL is having issues and they are taking advantage by basically saying "hey, for all you that are sick of SFSTL and its generics and lack of so much, COME CHECK US OUT INSTEAD!" As much as I do support my hometown park that Ive grown up with all my life, something needs to change and NOW! No, I DEFINITELY dont think this is an Astroworld situation, but SFSTL will begin to hurt.... trust me... this isnt just a hunch... theres some knowledge behind this. Sadly, I believe its too late to play catch up though. In the past 10 years, SFSTL really needed to focus on infrastructure... landscaping, paving pathways, MAJOR MAJOR upkeep, and the ridding of some of the stubborn management, but they didnt, they just kept polishing a turd. They had a chance during that timeframe to really turn the park around to put it back on the map, instead, they just sat injured and now they are being preyed on. To really put this into perspective and get the competitors from trying to invade our territory, the park would need to close end of September and not reopen until May, and during that 7 month shut down, invest a minimum of $30-$40 mil just in infrastructure and upkeep to make the place look at least somewhat new again... give it a look, and ambiance, then revisit how the park is run and go from there...

 

I've said it before and I will say it again. Parks outside of the St. Louis area have no effect on SFSTL's attendence. Now if I were to open a park 10mins. down the road it would be a different story. There is no invasion into the STL market. Now if a company came and opened a park near the STL area then yes, that would indeed be a threat to SFSTL's attendence.

 

I always value your opinions and agree a lot with what you say on here, and Im not trying to argue with you, but they absolutely do. They didnt used to maybe 10 years ago, but they definitely do now, trust me tey do, surveyys dont lie. Not to mention the amount of people who from this area now are not onlu going to HW, but getting season passes there. Now this next part is my opinion, but I truly believe you can see this yourself when walking around the park.... take a look at the type of clientele that walks around SFSTL, its getting trashier and rougher looking all the time, and thats because people that have more money to spend are going elsewhere.

 

Look at the STL region. It seems to be getting worse every year. In a regional park the actions and attitudes of clientele refelect back upon the region the park serves.

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Is this park worth visiting if you live about 4 hours away?

 

Depends, what are you looking for in a park? I can tell you yes and someone else can tell you no, but it ultimately comes down to personal taste. I've heard people that normally vist parks like Six Flags Great America say that they like SFSTL mostly because they consider it smaller and more charming. Others prefer Six Flags Great America's larger selection of rides.

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I didn't find the park's "charm/atmosphere" any different than other Six Flags parks. It was probably my least favorite based on almost all categories: food service, rides, atmosphere, friendliness. SFOT, SFFT, SFOG have a cleaner atmosphere and have better ride offerings, imo.

 

SF StL is a solid park worth the drive if you've never beer but I'd go to St.Louis for the bbq, not the theme park.

Edited by PKI Jizzman
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I know for a fact that marketing outside of the metro area is huge, but for WisDells and HW to both at the same time hit the STL market isnt just coincidence.... yes WisDaells is more of a tourist destination and has a bigger market, just like SDC, but they never have in the STL before, and now HW TOO!!?? They are absolutely doing so because they know SFSTL is having issues and they are taking advantage by basically saying "hey, for all you that are sick of SFSTL and its generics and lack of so much, COME CHECK US OUT INSTEAD!" As much as I do support my hometown park that Ive grown up with all my life, something needs to change and NOW! No, I DEFINITELY dont think this is an Astroworld situation, but SFSTL will begin to hurt.... trust me... this isnt just a hunch... theres some knowledge behind this. Sadly, I believe its too late to play catch up though. In the past 10 years, SFSTL really needed to focus on infrastructure... landscaping, paving pathways, MAJOR MAJOR upkeep, and the ridding of some of the stubborn management, but they didnt, they just kept polishing a turd. They had a chance during that timeframe to really turn the park around to put it back on the map, instead, they just sat injured and now they are being preyed on. To really put this into perspective and get the competitors from trying to invade our territory, the park would need to close end of September and not reopen until May, and during that 7 month shut down, invest a minimum of $30-$40 mil just in infrastructure and upkeep to make the place look at least somewhat new again... give it a look, and ambiance, then revisit how the park is run and go from there...

 

I've said it before and I will say it again. Parks outside of the St. Louis area have no effect on SFSTL's attendence. Now if I were to open a park 10mins. down the road it would be a different story. There is no invasion into the STL market. Now if a company came and opened a park near the STL area then yes, that would indeed be a threat to SFSTL's attendence.

 

I always value your opinions and agree a lot with what you say on here, and Im not trying to argue with you, but they absolutely do. They didnt used to maybe 10 years ago, but they definitely do now, trust me tey do, surveyys dont lie. Not to mention the amount of people who from this area now are not onlu going to HW, but getting season passes there. Now this next part is my opinion, but I truly believe you can see this yourself when walking around the park.... take a look at the type of clientele that walks around SFSTL, its getting trashier and rougher looking all the time, and thats because people that have more money to spend are going elsewhere.

 

Look at the STL region. It seems to be getting worse every year. In a regional park the actions and attitudes of clientele refelect back upon the region the park serves.

 

What Im saying is the amount of trash clientele hasn't risen, but becasue of our cheap prices they keep coming out and the everyday "valued" guests are sick out it and are coming less and less, thus raising the percentage of trash vs no trash...

 

You mark my word, unless drastic for the better changes start happening immediately, SFSTL will be in the same boat it was 10 years ago...

Edited by parkjunkie
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take a look at the type of clientele that walks around SFSTL, its getting trashier and rougher looking all the time, and thats because people that have more money to spend are going elsewhere.

 

Sounds more like a general reflection of humanity as a whole...

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SF StL is a solid park worth the drive if you've never beer but I'd go to St.Louis for the bbq, not the theme park.

 

When did we become known for our famous BBQ? I know KC is, but I have never heard that reference about this city. We have a few decent places and that's about it.

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SF StL is a solid park worth the drive if you've never beer but I'd go to St.Louis for the bbq, not the theme park.

 

When did we become known for our famous BBQ? I know KC is, but I have never heard that reference about this city. We have a few decent places and that's about it.

Salt + Smoke, Sugarfire, Pappy's, Roper's, Smokehouse, Shaved Duck, Adam's, Andre's, Smoking Barrels...

 

We have quite a few. Most of this pretty recent. We weren't known for it 15 years ago - but we have a pretty darn good BBQ scene now.

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Just wanted to address one thing parkjunkie included in the rant regarding "HW and WI Dells choosing to both advertise in STL now isn't a coincidence."

 

While I can't speak for The Dells, in terms of HW....YES. IT. IS.

 

I know for a fact that as far back as 2012, HW wasn't advertising in STL yet because they felt that they needed to grow more as a park and really work on their capacity & infrastructure. It had nothing to do with SFSL. Actually, there were an insane amount of "Visit Indiana" commercials and billboards (there was a huge one with the mammoth on it on I-55 in south city). The Visit Indiana commercials usually featured HW very prominently.

 

Anyway, that's all I have time for tonight. Good night TPR forum. Sleep tight, don't let the paranoia bite.

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Just wanted to address one thing parkjunkie included in the rant regarding "HW and WI Dells choosing to both advertise in STL now isn't a coincidence."

 

While I can't speak for The Dells, in terms of HW....YES. IT. IS.

 

I know for a fact that as far back as 2012, HW wasn't advertising in STL yet because they felt that they needed to grow more as a park and really work on their capacity & infrastructure. It had nothing to do with SFSL. Actually, there were an insane amount of "Visit Indiana" commercials and billboards (there was a huge one with the mammoth on it on I-55 in south city). The Visit Indiana commercials usually featured HW very prominently.

 

Anyway, that's all I have time for tonight. Good night TPR forum. Sleep tight, don't let the paranoia bite.

 

Sorry I have to call BS on this. A company would not spend money on advertising in an area if they didn't feel for some reason that area wasn't currently being satisfied by its local provider. They are expecting customers to come from. The Stl area or they wouldn't spend money on billboards and TV. Are all the customers they pull in coming DIRECTLY from SFSTL customers? I'm sure they are not, but as previously stated, would you really want to draw from SFSTL's current customer base.

 

Can you tell us for a fact that SFSTL management wouldn't love to have the customers that are going to SDC, HW, Or the Dells??

 

I see this the same as college sports recruiting, you need to lock up your borders. A.K.A. Bring in 99.9% of the local population and be considered #1 in your market. I haven't bought season passes this year and at this point am more likely to visit HW this year than SFSTL, due to the upgrades at HW and lack of improvements at SFSTL.

 

I hope this all makes sense as I'm still excited over a Blues win. LGB!!

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Personally, I still don't know why SFSTL can't make a large capital investment on a major new attraction (read: coaster). If SFOT can invest money in a ride like NTAG, and SFFT can invest in IRAT, both of which are huge successes, then I don't see why SFSTL can't do something similar. If an RMC Boss conversion is out of the question, then at least let RMC build something for you. An Outlaw Run type coaster would be an awesome addition to the park. SF corp just can't see it's way clear to give this park something special?

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SF StL is a solid park worth the drive if you've never beer but I'd go to St.Louis for the bbq, not the theme park.

 

When did we become known for our famous BBQ? I know KC is, but I have never heard that reference about this city. We have a few decent places and that's about it.

Salt + Smoke, Sugarfire, Pappy's, Roper's, Smokehouse, Shaved Duck, Adam's, Andre's, Smoking Barrels...

 

We have quite a few. Most of this pretty recent. We weren't known for it 15 years ago - but we have a pretty darn good BBQ scene now.

 

Absolutely, brother. Bogart's Smokehouse was stellar and had the best ribs ever!

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