Ferrari World Discussion Thread

[CPmillenia94]

Its funny how intamin designed their T-Bar, one of the best restraints ever designed, and are now designing such uncomfortable restraints. If they took the exact shape of the tbar padding and put that on all of their restraints then that would solve all their problems..

[Guy T. Koepp]

I know that all these ride designers often speak to each other. Is everything such a closely guarded secret that they refuse to not share anything, including ride safety restraints? Not that it matters, but IMHO it might behoove some of them to speak to Lagoon about their restraints? I know they engineer almost everything in house and are quite anal about safety as well as comfort. I've heard that they do consult on outside projects sometimes as well. I only ask, as I found the ones on both Wicked and Cannibal to be quite comfortable, even after 8 back to back rides. They feel very safe and keep you securely in your seat without any pain. I also like the feature that both have where after the ride comes to a complete stop on the break run, the restraint unclicks slightly to allow a bit of breathing room for the remainder of the roll into the station.

 

Just curious as I haven't ridden Skyrush yet, and all I ever hear is about how awesome the ride is, but how uncomfortable the restraints are. If this ride has the same ones, even with a slight mod then hopefully Intamin has solved their problem. It just seems to me that safety and comfort are industry wide concerns, and that the ones that do it well would benefit, and could profit by sharing their knowledge with everyone else.

 

Sorry if I went off on a tangent.

[TyRush]

The seats themselves are much wider on the wing trains than on the 2-across. That could explain the reason Intamin went with a different lap bar design on each of the two. Again since I do not work for Intamin I am stating my opinion. Having Hershey as the home park and riding Skyrush often, I never have had problems with the lap bar but as stated others do. If there was anything that could be changed to help I would think adjusting the hydraulic locking system to not continue to be pushed down once the ride has been dispatched. But then there are some people who do not have the lap bar flush against their legs.

 

 

^Skyrush also releases its lap bar slightly on the brake run which I always hear a sigh of relief from people. Honestly I think nothing is wrong with the design of the lap bars. When the negative G-force is that strong it is obviously going to cause some discomfort for someone and then the domino effect takes place once someone hears someone else say it hurts their legs...now the Intamin designers are terrible

[rcjp]

If there was anything that could be changed to help I would think adjusting the hydraulic locking system to not continue to be pushed down once the ride has been dispatched.

That is not the problem (at least it wasn't for me). Many intamins (that use hydraulic restraints) do this while not being uncomfortable during the ride (you might only notice it once it's over but nothing special). It really is the shape and how it holds you.

When the negative G-force is that strong it is obviously going to cause some discomfort for someone

I've heard this numerous times but I honestly don't agree. I'm pretty confident old intamin T bars or B&M's lap bars would be minimally comfortable even with skyrush's negative Gs. I've never heard people complaining about el toro's restraints and it too has some pretty strong air (although I haven't ridden it).

Its funny how intamin designed their T-Bar, one of the best restraints ever designed, and are now designing such uncomfortable restraints. If they took the exact shape of the tbar padding and put that on all of their restraints then that would solve all their problems..

It might not be that simple as those restraints are not connected to the back of the seat like OTSR and these new lap bars. Maybe the way they are lowered (and the different positions they can assume) force the design to be different.

As I previously said, although I can't see major differences we're not sure how they will ride yet and I'm positive Intamin knows what they are doing and are aware that skyrush's restrains might need a bit of rethinking.

All I can say is the ride looks pretty awesome.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Its funny how intamin designed their T-Bar, one of the best restraints ever designed, and are now designing such uncomfortable restraints. If they took the exact shape of the tbar padding and put that on all of their restraints then that would solve all their problems..

 

The way the new style restraints are lowered is completely different so the padding had to be redesigned

 

Look at us talking about how this is going to be uncomfortable before anyone has ridden it! How dumb do you think Intamin's engineers are to not modify the SkyRush restraint after SkyRush? A GP from Pennsylvania literally said "thigh crush" right after I asked him about Hershey Park! Intamin has never stopped improving their products and Flying Aces is going to be an incredibly intense and comfortable ride I'm sure.

 

And I'm pretty sure the restraints tighten because of the high G-force, not because of the hydraulic locking device.

[KingRCT3]

^ Well, I won't be so confident. It took B&M time to improve their wing coaster vest restraints, or the second, third, etc GIB doesn't work any better than the first one.

 

And I'm pretty sure the restraints tighten because of the high G-force, not because of the hydraulic locking device.

That's related. Sure it's the g forces that pushes the bar down, but it's up to the hydraulic device to prevent that.

 

I didn't know some ride released their lap-bars a tiny bit on the brake run. Definitely a interesting feature, I would love to hear more about it.

[TyRush]

And I'm pretty sure the restraints tighten because of the high G-force, not because of the hydraulic locking device.

Correct. So if you think about how hard it is to pull down the "rocket" train OTSR's, and consider how Skyrush's pull down very easily, there is minimal resistance from the hydraulics on Skyrush compared to those. So if there is a way to create more tension when it locks it *could* help. Now when you have 4.5G's pushing down I'm sure it's not as simple to fix as I hypothesize.

[CPmillenia94]

Honestly I think nothing is wrong with the design of the lap bars. When the negative G-force is that strong it is obviously going to cause some discomfort for someone and then the domino effect takes place once someone hears someone else say it hurts their legs...now the Intamin designers are terrible

 

Well to be honest, I think that half the reason why people find the airtime so intense on skyrush is because of the poor restraint design, since the forces themselves I found very comparable to el toro (which I have never had problems with).

 

Since the restraints are positioned so far forward on the thighs, and the bottom of the seats are not very long under your thighs compared to other floor-free coasters like B&Ms, You are not only receiving the weight of your body on the restraint, but also a weird leverage between the bottom of the seat and your restraint. This sensation is not apparent with RMC coasters, or older intamin restraints, where the bar falls very close to your stomach, and therefore almost all of the negative accelerations on your body are transferred straight into a force against the lap bar, rather than that force as well as a torque between the seat bottom and the edge of the restraint.

 

This is essentially the same issue that magnums lapbars have, and even Bizarro at sfne, except there are no floors to keep your thighs at the same level up against the lapbars, which for me personally makes it feel even worse.

 

Also, it looks like the new seats curve around the legs on the sides a bit further than skyrush, so hopefully that will help with the lats in some way. That was another problem with the design of these seats, is the lack of lateral support.. Anyways, its too early to know for sure how much better these restraints are until there are better pictures.

[neil009]

Look at us talking about how this is going to be uncomfortable before anyone has ridden it! How dumb do you think Intamin's engineers are to not modify the SkyRush restraint after SkyRush? A GP from Pennsylvania literally said "thigh crush" right after I asked him about Hershey Park! Intamin has never stopped improving their products and Flying Aces is going to be an incredibly intense and comfortable ride I'm sure.

 

 

Most people are just talking about Skyrush, which is a ride that's already open. Hopefully you're right and Flying Aces will be better. Why don't you explain exactly what you're seeing in that picture that makes you so sure they've made improvements?

 

Also, it looks like the new seats curve around the legs on the sides a bit further than skyrush, so hopefully that will help with the lats in some way. That was another problem with the design of these seats, is the lack of lateral support.. Anyways, its too early to know for sure how much better these restraints are until there are better pictures.

 

If anything, this is the only thing that looks like it *might* be different, but from the angle of the photo it's really hard to tell. It makes sense for that to change since it seems like an easy and cheap thing to do, you're not changing how the bar is attached to the train, all you're doing is swapping out a single piece for one that's shaped slightly different. If that is the only change, I would love for that to fix all the problems however... I'm a little doubtful. I seriously think they need to go back to the drawing board.

 

EDIT Sorry I thought you were talking about the bar, not the seat. You're right, the seat also looks different. But I'm willing to say now the bar looks like it curves more, which is what I thought you were referring to.

 

 

[gerstlaueringvar]

That's related. Sure it's the g forces that pushes the bar down, but it's up to the hydraulic device to prevent that.

I wouldn't want to make the caps so tight that even 5G's can't pull it down. Plus it's a lot of effort for guests to pull the "heavy" ones down, operators will need to help the guests which cuts down the capacity. Not to mention "heavy" lap bars also move slower than "lighter" lap bars that leads to lower capacity too. Double-acting cylinders can help but those are way more expensive, heavier and take up a lot of extra space.

 

Look at us talking about how this is going to be uncomfortable before anyone has ridden it! How dumb do you think Intamin's engineers are to not modify the SkyRush restraint after SkyRush? A GP from Pennsylvania literally said "thigh crush" right after I asked him about Hershey Park! Intamin has never stopped improving their products and Flying Aces is going to be an incredibly intense and comfortable ride I'm sure.

 

 

Most people are just talking about Skyrush, which is a ride that's already open. Hopefully you're right and Flying Aces will be better. Why don't you explain exactly what you're seeing in that picture that makes you so sure they've made improvements?

The part at the bottom that contacts with your lap is more flattened, bigger surface=lower pressure. The sides of the lap bar are more curved so the lap bar provides extra lateral support. And the seats are also slightly modified for lateral support. From what I see on the photos, the lap bar's position is more likely to land on your lap further back than SkyRush's.

[A.J.]

Honestly, I would skip all the technical mumbo-jumbo and just say that they look bulkier.

[Kinematics]

Honestly, I would skip all the technical mumbo-jumbo and just say that they look bulkier.

 

I study Mechanical Engineering and my eyebrows thought they were a train on I305.

[KingRCT3]

The only differences I see is that the edge of bar has a more pronunced curve on Flying Aces than on Skyrush (red line), and that the inside hole had a curve on Flying Aces while it's flat on Skyrush (green line).

 

 

I don't see any difference on the seat itself, though.

[RyanTPM]

^Thanks for showing that angle, much easier to see the changes now.

[DirkFunk]

That was some spirited discourse right there. Never have small changes to a lapbar pad meant so much.

[jray21]

^LOL! Yes! And never use Thunderbolt as an example of how a restraint should be! That ride, those restraints, everything about it make it one of the worst coasters on the planet.

 

Pretty much the only important thing I got out of the whole discussion.

[boldikus]

Whaddup with a POV of this thing? Dyin' over here.

[coasterkid124]

^

[MagicAngel94]

There is a new piece for the boomerang coaster inside the dome. Where the free Fall tower was. There is also a White crane

[RyanTPM]

^Great, that should be for the spike

[dubaidave]

I drove past flying aces today. Sadly to wasn't testing but is did take a few pics and found some bi plane wings. Not sure what is happening with them .

 

Enjoy

 

[jedimaster1227]

^^^That support for the spike looks interesting... So will it be outside of the building then, and if so where will it exit the sealed building to get out there? Not being as familiar with the layout of the park beyond pictures, it is hard to figure our where the track would go to move towards that position.

[KingRCT3]

^ It'll go through the glass panel, they still have to cut a hole in it.

 

Dubaidave, thanks for the pictures! The lift is seriously gorgeous.

[RyanTPM]

I'm guessing those theming pieces are for inside, either in or near the station

[jedimaster1227]

^^Thank you for that clarification--I wasn't sure how much latitude the designers have when it comes to puncturing the seal of the building given the outside conditions aren't always those you want to have an open window to inside... It will be interesting to see how this building exit works for this reason!