DBru Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 But doesn't that only apply to clamp brakes, where the train actually makes contact with the device? If these brakes are electromagnetic, it means that the train is slowed by repulsion of magnetic poles, not friction...right? Therefore, if the power were to go out and no current was flowing through the brakes, there would be no forces existing between the brakes and the train to slow it down. I don't really understand all this technical stuff, though, so my theory could easily be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceospades1250 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 But doesn't that only apply to clamp brakes, where the train actually makes contact with the device? If these brakes are electromagnetic, it means that the train is slowed by repulsion of magnetic poles, not friction...right? Therefore, if the power were to go out and no current was flowing through the brakes, there would be no forces existing between the brakes and the train to slow it down. I don't really understand all this technical stuff, though, so my theory could easily be wrong. There are still permanent magnets there that will induce eddy currents in the brake fins, slowing the cars down. I believe that when the brakes are "off", they work like LIM motors to "push" the train along the brake run at a constant speed. This is what I gather from the Velocity Brakes website. It's a bit like how iSpeed and Maverick's motors double as safety brakes. When not being used to propel the car they act as brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 There are still permanent magnets there that will induce eddy currents in the brake fins, slowing the cars down. I believe that when the brakes are "off", they work like LIM motors to "push" the train along the brake run at a constant speed. This is what I gather from the Velocity Brakes website. It's a bit like how iSpeed and Maverick's motors double as safety brakes. When not being used to propel the car they act as brakes. That only works if permanent magnets are used as the rotor; not fins. When electromagnets are off, the don't do anything to copper fins. The only reason Maverick and iSpeed work that way is because they involve permanent magnets. And if they are permanent magnets, then they can't be energized to do anything. Magnets are magnets; the end. I can't really tell how those brakes work, but if they are permanent magnets, then I would guess they are retractable somehow...? And quite often, things like this are falsely advertised just to sound cool to the gp. Those in no way look like electromagnets; at least relative to other components on related systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Yea...Sound like they should've just used friction brakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalikoasterman510 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Basically what i'm thinking... Is that the default state of these brakes will always be to stop the train, that means that even if they were installed in the middle of the street with no power to them, it could still stop a train. Therefore, it needs power and a signal to tell the brakes to shut off however many it needs, depending on the speed of the train, to slow it down. Hope that cleared it! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ^That's usually how most brake calipers work, even friction. It just sounds confusing to us because it's not something we're accustomed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texcoaster Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 At Lone Star Coasterthon, one of the maintenance guys explained the brakes to us. They are magnets, but not electromagnets. The fins on the train never touch them and they are mounted in a static position. They never "clamp" or "close" they only provide magnetic resistance to slow the train as it passes through. He even had a brake and a fin that we could play with and try to pass the fin through. It was very difficult. Since they never clamp nor close, this is why I speculate that there will be at least one regular clamp brake at the end of the line of mag brakes that would be used in the event of an emergency where the train would need to be stopped completely. The same style brakes are used on Boardwalk Bullet. There is a regular clamp brake (two, actually) at the end of the line of mag brakes at the end of the ride. If the power goes out, the mag brakes aren't affected at all: they are just magnets. However, they won't stop the train, so the regular clamp brakes (which, as has been said, default to closed when the power is off) are there to keep the trains from colliding in the station. Assuming that the two systems are the same, the amount of braking isn't controlled by a setting on the control panel, but by how many brakes are on the brake run and how they are spaced. Bullet went through several patterns and even removed a brake at one point when the trains took too long to arrive in the station (it has since been replaced and the trains CRAWL back home now). The bad news is that parks are likely to err on the side of caution and opt for slightly more brake than is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) ^You are correct. The company (Velocity Magnetics) that Rocky Mountain is using for the MCBR and main brake sections has magnetic braking available that are variable. I hope this is the case cause all those brakes on the MCBR will bring the train to a crawl if they aren't variable. I guess we will have to wait until testing begins and a video surfaces. In this video you will see the manufacturer's variable brake in action. Dyna Brake Edited January 11, 2011 by DJeXeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It seems like in the picture of the mcbr (as low res as it is...) that those are the variable magnets, so they will probably be able to be controlled. I doubt the main brake is variable though; there's no point in having variable magnets at the end of a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 There would be a use for them @ Main Brake as well to clear that block faster which will be beneficial when they are running 3 trains. Once the train enters main brake it slows to an acceptable speed then released from main brake to station approach. This would need to be done in a reasonable amount of time so that the train that's cycling doesn't get setup in the MCBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonR Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Isn't it possible that the electric part of the "electro-magnet brakes" are just the fact that the permanent magnet brakes can be turned off/on by moving the positions of the poles? Not in that they're magnets powered by electricity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKI Jizzman Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 This is looking great. But more importantly....shorter lines for ShockWave <3 Friggin' amazing ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekoma Fan Boy Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Intamin has had good success with magnetic brakes, and outside of their cable, haven't had any failures that I know of. Back in 2001 two trains on SFNE's Bizarro (S:ROS at the time) collided in the station. http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/sros.html That page is a bit dated, but has some good info as to what happened. A punctured air hose left the calipers "open" due to lack of pressure. I would just like to point out that this was a problem with the calipers moving into position and not with the magnets themselves. The older style Intamin magnetic brakes had two magnets mounted on to a roughly "L" shaped bracket, and would swing into position under pneumatic power to interact with the brake fins located on the side of the car, and away when the train had slowed down to a safe speed and braking force was no longer required. Air pressure lines to 12 of the swinging brake brackets developed a leak, and thus they failed to swing into position to slow the train. Source: http://www.rideofsteel.com/news.php?id=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Farmer Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) /\ Yeah, I mentioned it was lack of air pressure in the hose. For the system the 3 ROS coasters use, the hose is an integral part in ensuring they function. Magnetic brakes aren't going to fail if they're in the position they ought to be. In this case they weren't. Dave writes in the link I provided earlier that MF has fixed brakes to trim the train down, and only the block brake has the moving calipers (with a reinforced air hose to boot). That makes it sound like they improved the design, but both coasters were built the same year... Edited January 12, 2011 by Ed Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekoma Fan Boy Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^Whoops! How did I miss that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 How did I miss that? All that Vekoma may have slowed down you cognative reflexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Isn't it possible that the electric part of the "electro-magnet brakes" are just the fact that the permanent magnet brakes can be turned off/on by moving the positions of the poles? Not in that they're magnets powered by electricity? Well, every aspect of roller coasters is controlled by electricity; why not just call it an electro-coaster!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^Why not just call it an aquatrax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walibi owner Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 brakes on goliath, no moving parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekoma Fan Boy Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^But those are the final brakes, there is almost no need for there to be moving parts there. (I honestly don't understand why S:RoS had moving brakes, it seems counter-intuitive.) However, on an MCBR, where the train has to pass through at a much higher speed than in a brake run, it would make sense that the brakes can be disengaged to keep from slowing the train to a crawl, and they would probably be sprung, or in some other way made to default to the "closed" (for lack of a better term) position as a fail safe for something such as loss of power or air pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jray21 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I hope someone has a new update photo soon, all this talk of brakes and magnets is making my head hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonR Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 This is looking great. But more importantly....shorter lines for ShockWave <3 Friggin' amazing ride. They can't get much shorter than they typically are. Just about everytime I visited the park last season it was a walk-on. I hope someone has a new update photo soon, all this talk of brakes and magnets is making my head hurt Photo updates are going to be hard to come by, as the park is closed for the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonR Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 /\ Yeah, I mentioned it was lack of air pressure in the hose. For the system the 3 ROS coasters use, the hose is an integral part in ensuring they function. Magnetic brakes aren't going to fail if they're in the position they ought to be. In this case they weren't. Dave writes in the link I provided earlier that MF has fixed brakes to trim the train down, and only the block brake has the moving calipers (with a reinforced air hose to boot). That makes it sound like they improved the design, but both coasters were built the same year... Ultimately the best improved design, that you see everywhere now, is that the brake run is drastically angled so that gravity can overcome the magnetic brake's force. So you can have fixed, fail-safe brakes without a kicker tire or some other propulsion device, and without moving brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 No matter HOW many trains run, STILL if the staff is horsing around and dragging, you still are going to have 2 trains in the station. A lot of coasters have 3 trains to start but they only end up running 2. You are supposed to HUSTLE and it is no excuse to NOT have a train unloaded and almost loading by the time the prior train gets to the TOP of the lift. I know it can be done because I worked at sf in the 70's and we did it with seat belts, bars AND belts on the bars. And you can honestly say your crew never ran a little behind or got delayed by guests and stacked a train or two? It's inevitable, regardless of how much you "hustle." It depends on who's working there. I was a ride op in college and some knuckleheads just don't care, so they won't hustle at all. If people like us (enthusiast) always ran rides and worked in the parks they'd be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkyle Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 ^ I hate working with people who just don't care. It makes the entire crew look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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