The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[andyuk200523]

 

Nothing is failsafe but in order for a braking system like that to totally fail, the main compressor would have to go down, every tank by every brake woulds have to lose pressure or there would have to be a leak at every set of brakes. All of that happening at the same time is near impossible, unless the pressure is released from all the tanks or the rubber balloons are cut, which again is near impossible since they are really thick rubber and are inside the brake, the brakes will still close. There is your failsafe.

 

I agree about magnetic brakes, besides slowing the train a lot more smoothly there is really nothing to fail on them, unless they retract and don't move back to a braking position. But these and even the fixed magnetic brakes are far better and never wear out or require adjustment for the most part. Maybe Zamperla felt, for whatever reason magnetic brakes would not be a good idea here, I don't know why, they seem to work just fine on Intamin launch coasters. I'm thinking with this accident either the brakes did not close at all due to a sensor or PLC malfunction, or they did close but for whatever reason did not close tightly enough to stop the train. From what I remember from the pic it looks like there are two pairs of brakes on the launch track, four total, even if only one or two of those closed it should have been enough to at least slow the train to a stop well before it got near the station. In that case its possible they were not in proper adjustment or very worn, who knows. I just wish they would hurry up and figure out what happened.

 

 

I am fairly certain I am correct here, but most (if not all) coaster use air pressure to keep the brakes open, Therefore if there was a total failure of the air systems on the ride all of the brakes would immediatly close and no accidents would occur.

 

I did always think however that after the train had past on launched coasters the brake fins came back up to prevent a roll-back?!

[G$ Kurt]

^ You would think that is how it would work but it is not so. The older arrow brakes use air pressure to stay closed. It is a very backwards system (as is a lot of things arrow did)

 

In the case of Pony Express, I don't know how its brakes work specifically, whether the air pressure is used to close or open the brakes, but all I do know is that this incident probably should have never happend. Something clearly went wrong and I wish Knotts the best of luck in getting it fixed. I'm glad this didn't end up worse than it did.

[Tmcdllr]

 

Nothing is failsafe but in order for a braking system like that to totally fail, the main compressor would have to go down, every tank by every brake woulds have to lose pressure or there would have to be a leak at every set of brakes. All of that happening at the same time is near impossible, unless the pressure is released from all the tanks or the rubber balloons are cut, which again is near impossible since they are really thick rubber and are inside the brake, the brakes will still close. There is your failsafe.

 

I agree about magnetic brakes, besides slowing the train a lot more smoothly there is really nothing to fail on them, unless they retract and don't move back to a braking position. But these and even the fixed magnetic brakes are far better and never wear out or require adjustment for the most part. Maybe Zamperla felt, for whatever reason magnetic brakes would not be a good idea here, I don't know why, they seem to work just fine on Intamin launch coasters. I'm thinking with this accident either the brakes did not close at all due to a sensor or PLC malfunction, or they did close but for whatever reason did not close tightly enough to stop the train. From what I remember from the pic it looks like there are two pairs of brakes on the launch track, four total, even if only one or two of those closed it should have been enough to at least slow the train to a stop well before it got near the station. In that case its possible they were not in proper adjustment or very worn, who knows. I just wish they would hurry up and figure out what happened.

 

 

I am fairly certain I am correct here, but most (if not all) coaster use air pressure to keep the brakes open, Therefore if there was a total failure of the air systems on the ride all of the brakes would immediatly close and no accidents would occur.

 

I did always think however that after the train had past on launched coasters the brake fins came back up to prevent a roll-back?!

 

Okay, let's say that is true. What do you think closes the brakes? I'll give you a hint, it's not springs. The pinch brakes use air to close and springs to open. See here's the thing. Each brake and it's reserve tank are their own entity. It would be impossible for the complete air system to totally and completely fail. Let's say there was a failure of the main line. The brakes all still close because of the air pressure built up in the reserve tanks, that CLOSES them. Let's say the main line and one of the sets of brakes also are damaged, causing a massive air leak at that brake. Doesn't matter, all of the other brakes can still close under pressure simply because they each have a reserve tank that always has pressure built up in it.

 

And, I have to point this out again because it is so painfully obvious... Why do you hear the loud hiss of air escaping the brake when it opens but NOT when it closes? The loud hiss is the compressed air being released to allow the springs to open the brakes. You do not hear this when they close because the air is being forced into the brake to close it.

[Tmcdllr]

State investigates cause of Knott's Berry Farm coaster accident

 

State investigators have conducted an initial investigation of a roller coaster accident at Knott's Berry Farm that injured 10 riders, theme park officials said.

 

All the injured riders were released from the hospital Friday, the day after the Pony Express horseback-style launch coaster failed to make it up an incline and rolled back into the loading station, slamming into another train waiting to depart, said Jennifer Blazey, spokeswoman for the Buena Park theme park.

 

Ride manufacturer Zamperla, which is based in Italy, released a statement saying it would fully cooperate with the ongoing accident investigation by the California Division of Occupational Safety and Health (DOSH).

 

A Zamperla representative will visit Knott’s to investigate whether any "programming problems" led to the accident, Blazey said.

 

Next week, DOSH investigators will look at the mechanics of the ride, attempt to isolate the malfunction, review the ride’s maintenance records and interview ride operators, said Dean Fryer, spokesman for the DOSH amusement ride unit.

 

Investigators will be looking at whether the Pony Express track featured an anti-rollback mechanism or a zone protection system designed to keep trains running on the same track separated, Fryer said.

 

The relatively mild coaster, designed for the 'tween set, reaches a height of 44 feet and a speed of 38 miles per hour over an undulating, figure-eight course. Riders straddle the saddle-like coaster seat like a horseback rider. An automated restraint system presses against the rider’s lower back, providing little support for the shoulders and neck.

 

The ride will remain closed until the state investigation is completed, Blazey said, adding that the train waiting in the station was damaged in the accident.

 

In September 2009, a cable snapped on the hydraulically launched Xcelerator coaster at Knott's, spraying debris that injured two riders. A state investigation blamed the Xcelerator accident on both Knott's and the ride manufacturer, Switzerland-based Intamin AG.

 

Los Angeles Times

 

Programming problems, interesting. Programming problems that led to the zone protection system failing?... could be.

[saxman47]

And, I have to point this out again because it is so painfully obvious... Why do you hear the loud hiss of air escaping the brake when it opens but NOT when it closes? The loud hiss is the compressed air being released to allow the springs to open the brakes. You do not hear this when they close because the air is being forced into the brake to close it.

 

I don't know if you're talking about Pony Express specifically, but this is NOT the case with B&M's. They hiss when they close, not when they open.

[Tmcdllr]

B&M brakes are double acting, they use air to open and close, they hiss both ways. It may not be as loud because of adjustments, etc but they do.

[Tmcdllr]

^ You would think that is how it would work but it is not so. The older arrow brakes use air pressure to stay closed. It is a very backwards system (as is a lot of things arrow did)

 

In the case of Pony Express, I don't know how its brakes work specifically, whether the air pressure is used to close or open the brakes, but all I do know is that this incident probably should have never happend. Something clearly went wrong and I wish Knotts the best of luck in getting it fixed. I'm glad this didn't end up worse than it did.

 

Yes and those brakes are probably the most copied design out there. Vekoma, Zamperla, and others have copied this same design with slight differences, but they all operate the same...air close spring open.

[Sir Clinksalot]

On a lighter note ... check out the video I put together for AHAB this year:

[chadster]

just when I thought lawyers had hit an all time low, I come across the website below, now this is sad and pathetic, possibly even more sad and pathetic than whoring out a kiddie coaster.

 

Blood Sucking Lawyer Link

Edited October 15, 2010 by chadster

[PAL]

^ I don't know. There's sad and pathetic, and then there's sad and pathetic.

[Tmcdllr]

Asinine.

[snoflake15]

After this accident maybe thought should be given to changing the ride's name to 'Pony Hunt'.

[PAL]

^Why would anyone want to hunt ponies?

[SharkTums]

In fact, I hate anyone that ever had a pony when they were growing up.

[Chrisrad]

Went to Knott's yesterday for an hour or so.. (I was in the area). I got a few rides on Silver Bullet and Ghostrider, and managed to take a few pictures.

 

Pony Express has 2 trains in the maintenance area, with one covered up. On both trains, everything looked in-tact.. no signs of any foul horseplay.. On the train that was covered, the wrought iron 'gate' on the back was slightly bent.. but it might have just been the angle..

 

The covered train is on the right.. in-person, the black metal piece looked as if it was bent back..

 

Behind the fence on the left, a maintenance worker was working on the train..

 

Here are pony's brakes on the launch..

 

Excelerator was running well.. dispatches every few minutes..

 

 

 

 

Despite some newer pieces of wood on Ghostrider, it didn't feel any different.. that ride is simply brutal, even in the front row. Riding Colossus 5 times, including backwards twice, it pales in comparison.. Ghostrider has the tendency to rearrange my organs.. I feel for the people who were behind me on one ride.. they were so large that two employees had to pull on the seat belt buckle to make it long enough to fit around their waists..

[haydn12]

I rode Ghostrider a few times last, twice in the front seat and another time in the back. I thought it was giving pretty smooth rides for a woodie. We were getting good air time in the front seat. I've ridden other wood coasters in other parts of the country that were either just slow or brutally painful. Ghostrider just gave good fast rides which is why it's still one of our favorites.

 

Jim

[adamico2]

Asinine.

 

I give her face a five but her asinine!

[fatdaddy]

^^I agree, Ghostrider has been pretty good lately. Not smooth, but not brutal as it can be. I actually rode it a few times in a row last time, and normally I'm out after one ride.

[Skycoastin Steve]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. GhostRider was not that bad the several times I rode it during West Coast Bash. Then again, it had just come off its rehab not that long before the Bash, but I thought it was an excellent coaster. I've ridden MUCH rougher and MUCH worse coasters than that. I even took a couple laps in the back car (both rows) and despite a couple rough patches, didn't think it was bad. Rampage was probably rougher in the back seat, and we all know how much I love that ride.

[xsk8erboi73x]

I was at Halloween Haunt last night. We got on one ride which was Ghostrider, back seat silver train. All I have to say about it is that it wasn't as rough as the last time I rode it (this was before it had it's new pieces of wood)... definitely tolerable, had a fun ride. I went through most of the mazes.. I was really impressed with the new mazes Viruz Z and Fallout Shelter. I don't normally get scared but I got a good scare from those mazes.

 

Oh and Pony Express is back open... if anyone cares..

[Sidra]

Yeah was at Knotts today and Pointless Express is open again. Rode it with the kiddo. One of the ride ops told Cody that they used pieces from both trains to make one working one. The other train was still covered up, but missing the front car. The train that is running has a dent in the back.

 

Ghostrider was great in the morning, rough in the late afternoon. But was so smooth in the morning, almost felt like Collosus.

[Calicoasters]

Pony Express has indeed reopened!

 

After the accident they took the unaffected halves from each train to make the train that is currently operating on the ride.

 

The front car affected in the accident is missing from the storage track

 

I would share more pictures of Pony Express, but I'm positive nobody cares.

 

Moving on to a more interesting subject, Xcelerator's "Red Train" appears to be almost ready for operation!

 

The shell is now a darker shade of red and features a more Patriotic flare too!

 

Here you can see the darker red shell with patriotic flames!

 

This patriotic flare continues through the entire train.

[Tmcdllr]

Aren't they still investigating the accident?

[Calicoasters]

^The answer to that question is no.

 

They wouldn't be operating this ride if they didn't know the cause/solution to the ride's malfunction. I am still pretty shocked that this thing reopened so quickly, If only things would have gone so smooth last year with Xcelerator.

[Tmcdllr]

Well if you only run one train they cant hit each other...lol