The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[DBJ]

Mini-TPR. I attended last night, Oct. 15. Wow, crazy busy. Did the pre-scare dinner. I recommend that for anyone attending the Haunt on a busy night. The food is decent. But, what made it amazing this year, they started running Ghost Rider for pre-scare guests at 6pm! Huge treat. Able to get 3 rides in before dropping the rope at 6:30 for entry into rest of the park.

 

Noticed that general admission folks were actually let in at 6:40, not 7. So I would recommend doing an earlier seating at the boofet. One thing Knotts might look at is a refurb of that restaraunt. It is showing it's age rapidly.

 

Delirium was quite good, some good fresh ideas in that one. And along with Slaughterhouse, the one that felt the most like actual horror. Log flume, as noted above, is closed, so no Sleepy Hollow. Invasion Beneath is completely bland. The actual pre-show on the monitors is well done.Skipped Cornstalkers, Doll House, and the Latin one because of crazy lines, and having experienced those in years past. All in all, it's a solid collection of mazes, although i do feel there are several that need to be refreshed.

 

By Ghostrider, there is actually a decent animatronic of a werewolf on the way down to Lockdown, I recommend pausing to watch it.

 

Ed, as always, a good show. A tad imbalanced with the 2nd half of the show being heavy on the dancing, but hey, at least they are not rying to sing anymore. I like the concept of a psycho circus, would not mind seeing that expanded with them adding another circus act, along with Ed and the fire performance artist. Putz is quite funny. Hanging is also a highlight of the experience.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Yea Log Ride has been closed pretty much all weekend, which stinks, but maintenance is literally working around the clock to get it back up. I hope it at least some action this weekend...

[Wes]

Glad we opted not to go this weekend, the haunted up log ride is always a highlight.

[jazma]

Are you referring to Spurs, DBJ? That restaurant was renovated about two years ago.

[DBJ]

Referring to the main chicken restaraunt in the marketplace, Mrs. Knotts Chicken. For our seating, we were directed to that place, pre-scare sat in the back. To reach the bathrooms, you had to squeeze past a rolling cart between excess chairs and folded banquet table. The part where it's supposed to look vaguely like the outdoors with the concrete floors and white walls. Other folk were seated at Spurs. They really had quite the capacity crowd for the pre-scare boofet.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

I heard R. Kelly and Tupac playing in the midway music yesterday...Truly we'vew entered a new era of Knott's Berry Farm.

[G-Force!]

^That's not something I'd like to hear. At all.

[Jew]

+100000 points to Knotts if it was Trapped in the Closet.

[downunder]

Haunt was fun this year. I concur with earlier post that Pre-scare buffet is good value especially the earliest 5pm session. Last year I discovered by accident that you could get rides on Ghostrider before the rope drop and I took full advantage this year. I went on a a Wednesday, and I got a full half hour before the non-buffet rope drop.

 

The shows I went to were good this year: The Hanging was a lot of fun, Haunt FX was surprisingly good, and there's two big reasons to always attend Zamora's show. My observation was that the entire audience was lining up to meet Kitty Karloff after the show, and 2 guys were talking to Zamora - they were possibly from Buena Park men-only bar, grill, and S & M dungeon.

 

Sad to hear the flume was down, that is one of my favourite things at Haunt, even if it doesn't loan itself perfectly to a haunt overlay. Xcelerator was absolutely cranking until it broke down for the rest of the night. Invasion Beneath was lame, though I enjoy the mine ride itself.

 

I thought Dollhouse and Terror of London went backwards this year. Delirium & End Games were great additions, and Virus Z was great, though it didn't have one element that I thought was very effective last year in the open room towards the end. Cornstalkers was improved, and the rest were the same - Slaughterhouse was as lame as last year, and the year before.

Edited October 25, 2011 by downunder

[gdoggy1678]

^The log ride is now back open! Was a absolute blast last night.

[Jew]

Went to haunt tonight.

 

Couple of quick observations:

 

-I'm glad shaker cans are gone, but they have now been replaced with slider gloves. Most of the monsters just hit the walls for scares. I didn't see lots of over the top effort anywhere.

 

-I didn't think the Hanging was as great as people were hyping it to be, but I do think that when it was on, it was really on. The musical numbers were great, as was the 127 hours dude being stuck the whole show. But I was bummed they didn't have a real good Disney park joke like they usually do, nor did I like the Arnold maid segment.

 

-Virus Z was my favorite: good sets and talent that actually was trying.

 

-Terror of London gets my vote for worst maze. The layout of the Mystery Lodge mazes are always so long with not enough talent to fill it. Not only that, the talent inside seriously didn't try at all. Mostly just stood there and stared, or waved a prop in my face.

 

-Endgames looked great, but I felt like it couldn't make up its mind as to what the story really was. A saw rip off? A post-apocalyptic maze similar to Underground? The soundtrack gets you pumped up for a high energy maze, but then you don't really get that. Probably the nicest looking maze this year though.

 

-Delirium also looked great. Talent was doing good selling the drug trip/crazyness theme of the maze.

[susie zueck]

Do you think Haunt will be crowded tonight, October 29th

[Jew]

Yes, very much so. Last Saturday before Halloween is typically one of the busiest nights.

[WFChris]

I can tell you based on what I am seeing from my work in Downtown LA, tonight is basically Halloween. I would expect crowds EVERYWHERE.

[Gigalyte]

Well Someone named Monty1998 over at Westcoaster has posted that the clearing that was thought to be for Knotts new coaster, now has building foundations. I wonder could this be maybe for new offices or something? building foundations doesn't sound like the makings of a Giga imo. I wonder if it's foolish of me to still have an ounce of hope that there is still something on the horizon for Knotts 2012

[coasterfreak101]

^Are we talking about the same clearing over near Ghostrider that basically nobody believed was for the new coaster, but instead though that it would be for a building of some sort?

[disney4me2001]

I heard R. Kelly and Tupac playing in the midway music yesterday...Truly we'vew entered a new era of Knott's Berry Farm.

 

I was at Knott's last week and noticed the music had changed. Personally I don't like it- I liked how the music fit the themed areas...my favorite loop was the 50s/60s loop that played in the Boardwalk area! Maybe this is temporary? If not, oh well...I go to Knott's for the rides, not so much the atmosphere haha!

[Intarider]

Talking about the possible giga, there are some clues that a B&M is in the works and not an Intamin as rumored before.

 

B&M hat gemäss Insider-Quellen bereits den zweiten Giga Coaster für die Cedar Fair Gruppe in Arbeit. Dieser soll in Knott's Berry Farm bei Los Angeles eröffnen. Der ebenfalls über 90 Meter hohe Lifthügel sowie die rund eine Meile lange Bahn sollen quer durch und über den Park und sogar über die Backstage Bereiche führen.

 

what would translate into

 

According to insiders, a second B&M Giga coaster for Cedar Fair is in the works. It shall open in Knott's Berry Farm near Los Angeles. The over 300 feet high lift hill as well as the track which will be about a mile long will lead around and over the park and even over the backstage areas.

http://coastersandmore.de/rides/achterbahnneuheiten2012/achterbahnneuheiten2012.shtml

 

That's very interesting news, however I'm a bit surprised that CF will go with B&M again. In my eyes, a B&M has only disadvantages for KBF: It's most likely more expensive, more spread out and most important it will probably fail at being the best coaster on the east coast. I mean, it might not even have real airtime after all. And while more Gigas always is a good thing, I just wish CF would go with Intamin...

 

Now the big question is: Where will the third B&M Giga of the deal go?

[asimowalk]

^ B&Ms are more reliable, and Knott's loves that of course, and I'm sure there may be other internal reasons to favor B&M. I think that saying it will 'fail' in a region is pretty harsh considering that the first giga hasn't even opened yet but it's still guaranteed to be a quality coaster.

[susie zueck]

A B&M coaster would probably cost more and wouldn't give as much of a thrill as an Intamin coaster would. I don't see why knotts would go with B&M because they have about 3 rides that are Intamin and 1 that is B&M. It seems that they would most likely go with an Intamin since Intamin has more credit with Knotts.

[chadster]

Knotts has said publicly that they like their B&M because of reliability and has the least amount of downtime in their park. Looking at that and all the trouble that Xcel has brought them, not to mention the redesign on I305, and you might have the keys to why they might go with B&M over Intamin.

 

For me, personally, the Intamins, except for MF, with higher speeds, shake and rattle much more than one would think they should. Ka and I305(in its opening year) instantly come to mind.

 

Capacity wise, I-305 will do 32 per train, and B&M can do 32 per train. I think MF is one of the few Intamins that will do 36 per train. Another option to consider, with Intamin you have a cable lift(which no doubt can get you their quick), B&M a chain lift. So, in theory, with B&M you could send the next train as soon as the lift is clear. With Intamin, you have to wait for the cable to come back and lock-in meaning your chances of having two trains on course at a time are slim even provided the Intamin had any block sections on course. (And since I know someone will say it, yes as noted the cable lift is faster going up, but whats not to say B&M won't come out with a new motor/gearing to get the train up faster than they have in the past, and if so, if you could send a train say 10 seconds faster over another model, how will that factor into RPH, could it increase or stay the same, I'm banking on an increase) Clam shell restraint checking is also quick and dirty compared to the Intamin needing to check belts and making sure the restraint clears.

 

If they use the clamshell restraints, you'll get airtime. I've been out of my seat for 10+ seconds at a time on Diamondback, and got a couple of pops on Goliath at La Ronde(it sucks anyway). Intameidator at Carrowinds is the exception to my airtime experiences with the clamshell, the ride was kinda meh.

 

With all that being said, there are quite a few scenarios the parks go through when deciding on a new ride. We just have to keep in mind they are not building a $15million dollar ride for enthusiasts to enjoy, but something their core market will want to come back and ride over and over, note: Cheetah Hunt. Whatever they decide, it will be better than Pony Express so we shouldn't complain

[hydra]

^Are we talking about the same clearing over near Ghostrider that basically nobody believed was for the new coaster, but instead though that it would be for a building of some sort?

 

Beautiful.

 

My thoughts are possibly moving some of the office space that is in the back stage area to a new consolidated building. Which in turn may free up some space in the back for future expansion. They certainly need it. Anyone have any photos of this "building foundation"?

[COASTER FREAK 11]

^This is exactly what everyone was thinking. To see a building going there is not a surprise, anyone who thought otherwise didn't understand how cramped that area really is (to try and install a coaster station there.)

 

I would rather have Intimin only for the fact they tend to design better rides in tight spaces, where B&M lately doesn't seem up to that challenge anymore. They will just build over everything.

[hydra]

Right on. Im still skeptical about a giga (or even a hyper). I dont see it. :-/

[Intarider]

Knotts has said publicly that they like their B&M because of reliability and has the least amount of downtime in their park. Looking at that and all the trouble that Xcel has brought them, not to mention the redesign on I305, and you might have the keys to why they might go with B&M over Intamin.

This might be the case, however you have to keep in mind that Xclererator is a launched coaster and has a much more difficult technology than Silver Bullet. The Intamin Megas/ Gigas seem to be quite reliable as long as the evil Intamin cable doesn't snap.

 

For me, personally, the Intamins, except for MF, with higher speeds, shake and rattle much more than one would think they should. Ka and I305(in its opening year) instantly come to mind.

 

I haven't ridden KK or i305, but I can tell what you mean from my rides on Expedition GeForce. This might depend on personal preferences, but I think a good coaster ride should have a little rattle in it to increase the sensation of speed. Most B&Ms I have ridden are so smooth that you hardly feel the speed of the train, especially on the inside seats. And I'm not sure as I haven't ridden it, but wasn't i305 described as being glass smooth? I mean, you also have to keep in mind that i305 probably has the craziest turns on a coaster ever, while MF and most B&Ms are more spread out, with wide and gentle transitions which could be the reason for the smoothness.

 

Capacity wise, I-305 will do 32 per train, and B&M can do 32 per train. I think MF is one of the few Intamins that will do 36 per train. Another option to consider, with Intamin you have a cable lift(which no doubt can get you their quick), B&M a chain lift. So, in theory, with B&M you could send the next train as soon as the lift is clear. With Intamin, you have to wait for the cable to come back and lock-in meaning your chances of having two trains on course at a time are slim even provided the Intamin had any block sections on course. (And since I know someone will say it, yes as noted the cable lift is faster going up, but whats not to say B&M won't come out with a new motor/gearing to get the train up faster than they have in the past, and if so, if you could send a train say 10 seconds faster over another model, how will that factor into RPH, could it increase or stay the same, I'm banking on an increase) Clam shell restraint checking is also quick and dirty compared to the Intamin needing to check belts and making sure the restraint clears.

This might indeed be a reason to go with B&M. Their capacity is really good, but I don't think it has something to do with the lift system. If Intamin can send a 32 passenger train up a 305 feet lift hill in about 20 seconds, the lift should be able to do this the other way round, and I see no way how a train could be loaded in 20 seconds However, one interesting point is that on most B&Ms, the lift seems to be a proper block while on most Intamins, it isn't... I mean, on B&Ms, the duration of the lift is usually as long as the coaster part until the block brake while on Intamins, the lift is much shorter than the ride. For example, on MF there is one train on the course (lift + track) and two in the stations. On Leviathan there will most likely be one train in the station, one on the lift and one on the track. A bit complicated, I know

 

If they use the clamshell restraints, you'll get airtime. I've been out of my seat for 10+ seconds at a time on Diamondback, and got a couple of pops on Goliath at La Ronde(it sucks anyway). Intameidator at Carrowinds is the exception to my airtime experiences with the clamshell, the ride was kinda meh.

I have no doubt that you can feel airtime on a B&M hyper, but in my opinion it's a bit too floaty (at least at Silver Star) I'm a huge fan of ejector airtime like on EGF, Colossos of most likely on Bizarro or El Toro. And I've heard many people complain about California not having any "real" airtime what might be true judging by the coasters on the east coast. So I think an Intamin with strong ejector airtime could be an unique selling point in the area. A B&M Giga might look "just like a bigger version of Colossus" in the GPs' eyes (however, it would most likely not have the intense helices and twisty sections).

(Yes, it's true, I have an intensity fetish )

 

With all that being said, there are quite a few scenarios the parks go through when deciding on a new ride. We just have to keep in mind they are not building a $15million dollar ride for enthusiasts to enjoy, but something their core market will want to come back and ride over and over, note: Cheetah Hunt. Whatever they decide, it will be better than Pony Express so we shouldn't complain

QFT.

 

After all, I might sound a bit too negative in this post. I'll be happy about a Giga no matter which company builds it. I mean, it's not even sure yet if it will be built, but I have a stong feeling that there is something in the works.