Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[cfc]

^^I don't think it would be a "slap in the face," but it might be a good way to improve Gravity Group coasters and keep them in operation. They can deliver amazing rides, but long-term maintenance has always been an issue.

[GrapesLie]

Maybe they could work with GG for their own version of of a iron rail or topper track system.

[Koasterking48]

At this point, if I were on Holiday World's management, I would say sever those ties if it means the Voyage will be better. I would want the amazing product I was delivered 8 years ago to still deliver present day. After seeing how badly Hades 360 turned out, HW intelligently backed out of the Timberliners after 3 years of testing noticing that they were not delivered the promised results of making the ride smoother. The Voyage is probably a monster to maintain since it was built traditionally while Outlaw Run has topper track and T-Express + El Toro are rocking the pre-fab. I'm pretty sure Holiday World has RMC as an option to restore former glory, but we are probably a few years away from that.

[gerstlaueringvar]

If Holiday World ever got topper track on Voyage, that would just be a giant slap in the face to Gravity Group. It would help return it to its former glory, but I can't imagine GG would be too happy. Seems like all of Gravity Group's coasters don't age very well.

But that's the market, isn't it?

[traincrossin]

Maybe they could work with GG for their own version of of a iron rail or topper track system.

Hopefully that would work better than the Timberliner trains, I just don't know how much money they're willing to spend for another Gravity Group test project.

[Woodie Warrior]

I'd say Holiday World is most likely looking into Topper Track. I mean, with the whole Timberliner disaster I'm guessing they have decided to see if any other companies have better ways to make The Voyage smoother.

[Wes]

I'd say Holiday World is most likely looking into Topper Track. I mean, with the whole Timberliner disaster I'm guessing they have decided to see if any other companies have better ways to make The Voyage smoother.

 

You'd say or you hope? Two different things.

[Woodie Warrior]

I'd say Holiday World is most likely looking into Topper Track. I mean, with the whole Timberliner disaster I'm guessing they have decided to see if any other companies have better ways to make The Voyage smoother.

 

You'd say or you hope? Two different things.

 

Well at this point I'm guessing they are looking into solutions to make Voyage smoother. I don't know if it is just wishful thinking but the cost of maintenance has to be adding up to the point where they are realizing they need a long-term solution for the ride.

[COASTER FREAK 11]

I'd say Holiday World is most likely looking into Topper Track. I mean, with the whole Timberliner disaster I'm guessing they have decided to see if any other companies have better ways to make The Voyage smoother.

 

You'd say or you hope? Two different things.

 

I'll say, I hope. Even though this was my statement. Lol

[ZeroGravity55]

I would hate to be one of the guys that has to go out and re-track the ride every off-season. It has feel like they're putting in all of that work, just for the ride to tear it all up 2 months into the operating season. Topper track seems to be like the only solution, but I think the sampling of the product is too little right now for HW to make definitive decision to go on with it. I think they wanna see more results. Yeah, Outlaw Run is great right now, but it could be rough in a few years. That seems highly unlikely, but you just don't know. It makes sense to sit back and wait, before they make a decision. They don't wanna make another decision that puts them in another money pit like Timberliners did. If it doesn't go right this time, they could lose the ride for an entire season. It wouldn't be as simple as just running the old trains until the new ones are ready. You can't put the old track back on, because the new one isn't delivering.

[ZeroGravity55]

Double post!

 

Work on the Mayflower as begun! According to the Holiblog, work started some time last week.

www.holidayworld.com/holiblog/2014/02/07/round-thing-mayflower/

 

 

[ajfelice]

I would hate to be one of the guys that has to go out and re-track the ride every off-season. It has feel like they're putting in all of that work, just for the ride to tear it all up 2 months into the operating season.

 

Working maintenance for any park on any ride is an ongoing cycle of rebuild, disassemble, and rebuild again. Flat rides and roller coasters are not set a set it and forget it kind of deal. Maintenance workers are well aware of this cycle, and understand what it takes to keep rides running safely. I'm sure with a coaster as expansive as The Voyage that carpenters and maintenance staff are more than occupied working on different areas of the coaster that need attention, and I'm sure they almost all enjoy what they do. There is about a five year window most new wooden coasters have after construction, outside that window regular re-tracking and adjustments become much more common as the years progress. Simply put, wood coaster track work is a fact of life.

[SFOGdude25]

The Voyage is a strange ride that I have quite a love affair with. It's probably my favorite coaster in terms of design: a nice long ride that starts as a traditional out-and-back and slowly transforms into an all-out twister by the end, so when it comes to traditional woodies, Voyage has the best of everything packed into one crazy ride.

Then I ride it, and I can get a great sense of the original intent of the ride getting thrown around every turn and over every hill, but the ride is just so vigorous and crazy that it can often translate into a very rough ride that leaves me feeling like I just got out of a fist fight. Every time I hit the brake run, I think "That was fun, right? all the elements are there and they were awesome, but the ride was so rough, which normally isn't good, but somehow I gotta do this again."

I have a theory.

The caveat of the design is that by its very nature, it will never be a "smooth" ride. Even since its opening year, the ride has been rough, but it's NOT because of jackhammering, excess shuffling, poor maintenance etc. (aka "normal" reasons for being rough). It's because the elements themselves are taken at such a fast pace, that every transition throws you around in your seat so much to the point that most people translate it as being a really rough ride, and of course, over time, the trains started to tear the track up like normal which worked against the ride. This is why Voyage has been a love-it-or-hate-it ride since the very beginning of its time. From this point onward, whether an enthusiast likes it or not all depends on what they like in a ride.

I have always loved the feeling of speed and being out of control, so I still really like Voyage, but in its current state, the roughness is just a little too much for me to handle.

 

NOTE: This theory is all based on the traditional wood track. With topper track, it would be a different story. As Outlaw Run shows so proudly, you can have an out of control feeling ride that is also smooth (or so I've heard. Haven't ridden it yet).

 

My two cents.

[A.J.]

I still think that the Voyage is so rough because it's a steel-supported wooden coaster. Hasn't this been a recurring theme for those massive steel-supported Gravity Group wooden coasters like Hades? Ravine Flyer II is a fantastic ride but it definitely has its rough moments.

[Dr. M]

Why are people so convinced Holiday World wants to make the Voyage smoother? Isn't it still extremely popular? Isn't it possible they're fine with it the way it is? Just asking. Like I said before, it's been a longtime dream of mine to get to ride it, but that is to ride it as the pinnacle of TRADITIONAL wooden coaster design, not modern topper track design. I could honestly care less how rough it is. We'll see if that remains true after I ride it, of course.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Dr. M

[Koasterking48]

Why are people so convinced Holiday World wants to make the Voyage smoother? Isn't it still extremely popular? Isn't it possible they're fine with it the way it is? Just asking.

Considering they invested three years into trains that were supposed to help the ride be smoother (but ended up not for Hades), they definitely weren't fine with the ride getting as rough as it is.

[coreysaysyo]

If you ask me, I think they ought to keep the PTC trains, and just get a track refurb/retrack from RMC. I know if would be expensive, but it would be worth it. Plus it would just be a retrack, Not the Texas giant/rattler kind

[coasterfreak101]

I still think that the Voyage is so rough because it's a steel-supported wooden coaster. Hasn't this been a recurring theme for those massive steel-supported Gravity Group wooden coasters like Hades? Ravine Flyer II is a fantastic ride but it definitely has its rough moments.

 

It's just a theme of Gravity Group coasters (and old GCIs) that have or still use heavy PTCs that don't articulate. That's why Timberliners and Millennium Flyers exist, to be lighter and to handle curves without incessantly shuffling to find the center, tearing up the track in the process. The Voyage never stood a chance so long as it ran a single year with those PTCs on that layout.

[ajfelice]

It's just a theme of Gravity Group coasters (and old GCIs) that have or still use heavy PTCs that don't articulate.

 

PTC trains on the Gravity Group coasters articulate. The difference is that PTC trains articulate on the front axle of each car only. The newer articulating PTC trains, while not as perfect as some other newer designs, are much less abusive to the track than the trailer cars of the past. Also, for comparison's sake, Millennium Flyers are very close to PTCs in terms of weight.

[pixelated85]

The Voyage is a strange ride that I have quite a love affair with. It's probably my favorite coaster in terms of design: a nice long ride that starts as a traditional out-and-back and slowly transforms into an all-out twister by the end, so when it comes to traditional woodies, Voyage has the best of everything packed into one crazy ride.

Then I ride it, and I can get a great sense of the original intent of the ride getting thrown around every turn and over every hill, but the ride is just so vigorous and crazy that it can often translate into a very rough ride that leaves me feeling like I just got out of a fist fight. Every time I hit the brake run, I think "That was fun, right? all the elements are there and they were awesome, but the ride was so rough, which normally isn't good, but somehow I gotta do this again."

I have a theory.

The caveat of the design is that by its very nature, it will never be a "smooth" ride. Even since its opening year, the ride has been rough, but it's NOT because of jackhammering, excess shuffling, poor maintenance etc. (aka "normal" reasons for being rough). It's because the elements themselves are taken at such a fast pace, that every transition throws you around in your seat so much to the point that most people translate it as being a really rough ride, and of course, over time, the trains started to tear the track up like normal which worked against the ride. This is why Voyage has been a love-it-or-hate-it ride since the very beginning of its time. From this point onward, whether an enthusiast likes it or not all depends on what they like in a ride.

I have always loved the feeling of speed and being out of control, so I still really like Voyage, but in its current state, the roughness is just a little too much for me to handle.

 

NOTE: This theory is all based on the traditional wood track. With topper track, it would be a different story. As Outlaw Run shows so proudly, you can have an out of control feeling ride that is also smooth (or so I've heard. Haven't ridden it yet).

 

My two cents.

 

I share a lot of the same sentiments about this ride. If I rode it for the first time now, I don't know that it would sit so prettily, perched at the top of my favorites list. The airtime is still there (and it's not going anywhere, that's for sure) but the roughness can be too much for more than 2 or 3 rides in a row. But when I think back to the rides I had in its opening year, I get all twinkly eyed and nostalgic. Single-handedly the best coaster rides I've ever had. The speed and airtime were nothing I had ever encountered before, at least not to the extent that they're thrown at you on the Voyage. I didn't think it was possible to have that much air in one ride, or to see it come screaming into the brakes at such an insane speed. I miss those days. I would be all for a topper track makeover if it meant keeping these great traits but restoring an ounce of smoothness to the ride.

[ZeroGravity55]

We're also talking about one of the longest and tallest traditional wooden tracked coasters out there. Most traditional tracked woodies don't carry the kind of forces the Voyage does. I my opinion, The Voyage's main problem is the PTC's. They have the traditional style of bouncing through turns, and they carry a lot of weight. For the Voyage run the way we all would want it to run, RMC is literally the only solution. It's going to take a complete topper track re-haul with RMC trains for the Voyage to be perfect.

[Moose]

I still think the track structure (different from the steel structure) want designed properly and is not strong enough to handle the forces and destroys itself after a very short time. This is why the park needs to retrack so much of the ride every year.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Just contact RMC to find a long term solution. Going back to GG or other traditional wooden coaster manufacturers is just looking for more trouble. Timberliners won't help even though Mt. Olympus is also responsible for Hades360 turning into a death machine. If a coaster is built with top quality, no matter how little care the park gives, it won't turn bad too soon.

 

I really think RMC's work can teach GG some lesson.

[cfc]

Just contact RMC to find a long term solution. Going back to GG or other traditional wooden coaster manufacturers is just looking for more trouble. Timberliners won't help even though Mt. Olympus is also responsible for Hades360 turning into a death machine. If a coaster is built with top quality, no matter how little care the park gives, it won't turn bad too soon.

 

I really think RMC's work can teach GG some lesson.

 

I think Holiday World gave up on the Timberliners for Voyage some time ago.

Edited February 14, 2014 by cfc

[arby]

Every time I hit the brake run, I think "That was fun, right?

 

That pretty much sums up my thoughts about the ride. I also agree with the rest of your comments. While it is one of my favorite wooden coasters for its concept, It's not in the top of my rankings go because of the roughness I experienced. I rode it 3 times the last day of the season in 2011 and it was rough. I do know that HW does everything it can to keep up with this massive coaster so I'm curious to see what they may try in the future.