Dorney Park and Wildwater Kingdom Discussion Thread

[Shockwave]

As much as I like Subway, and I do, this seems a bit tasteless. Getting rid of a large part of park heritage like this is a real shame.

[YoshiFan]

What makes it worse is that there is already a small Subway stand in the park. I hate how Cedar Fair seems to be taking anything old or "classic" out of the park whether it be buildings or rides.

Edited November 17, 2005 by YoshiFan

[DerekRx]

Way to go CF! They could have saved it and repaired it, but it would cost money, money that was probably set aside for another 700 trash cans at the park. So they knock it down for a Subway restaurant.....when they already have had a Subway stand there for years in the exact same spot, not to mention the Subway stand right over in Wildwater Kingdom. I'm sure in its place they'll put a memorial marker about the history of the building they knocked down, just like they did at Journey/Traver Circle Swing. Lame!

[Hercules]

Hell, not just a Subway in the park, there was a Subway in the building.

 

Most of it is gone now though. The wrecking ball crushed it. So sad

 

I'm not going to go into a long rant about this because some people already know my feelings on the matter, and I'm just so saddened about it that I just don't want to talk about it.

[QuakerOaties]

I'm really sick of this. I feel like Dorney used to be this cute historic park until Cedar Fair entered the scene. The park now feels serile and bare.

 

Mark "grrr..." Luskus

[Mind Eraser]

Did anyone even know this building existed before today? :shock:

[Meteornotes]

^I did, but I've been visiting this park since I was a kid. Dorney used to be a park we visited every year, but it's really just dropped off my list of parks I like, just like Knott's. Ah well...

 

dt

[Scaparri]

The Subway is the stinger. As if it isn't irritating enough to seem them tear down the thing, they are putting in a chain sandwich shop that is only going to charge twice as much as the same store down the street.

[SharkTums]

I'm not the biggest 'history' buff, so this decision doesn't bother me that much. I can see how some would find it disturbing though.

 

Oh well, let's hope they at least did it for the right reasons (insurance, codes, etc.)

[TheGreatOne]

Let's not forget what else Cedar Fair has done to this park:

 

Removed:

Journey to the Center of the Earth (was last remaining PTC Mill Chute)

Traver Circle Swing

Indoor PTC Cuddle Up

Lusse Auto Skooters (and replaced with modern crap)

Indy 500 Electric Car Race (also one of the last remaining)

Numerous park-specific facades and entries

The Parking entrance tower

 

Renovated:

Thunderhawk's station, razed the pre-lift tunnel, now just a concrete trench

 

I'm probably missing some others here.

 

References:

http://www.coasterquest.com/dorney.htm

http://www.ridezone.com/parks/pa/dorney/dorneygone1.htm

 

In conclusion, Cedar Fair likes to steal the souls from some of their parks. Bob Ott called it progress in the article, but I call bullsh*t. Bob's too nice of a guy to call it like it is. This is one of the main reasons I despise Cedar Fair.

 

P.S. Put some effing trees in that damn park! It's a concrete paradise

 

-Bryan "thinks Dorney could be and should be so much better" Wood

[YoshiFan]

They also removed the boats near the Zephyr in 2000 I think which I was very dissapointed to see gone because that was a ride I always used to go on when I was a kid.

 

Lusse Auto Skooters (and replaced with modern crap)

 

The new bumper cars are some of the worst I have ever been on. Only 11 cars (when I was there) and each car holds 1 person so capcity is horrible. Controlling the cars with the levers hurts your hands because they rattle so much and when you bump into another car, there is almost no impact. And I'm not sure how often they need to do it but they have to refuel the cars and they had to close the ride for 15 minutes to refuel them.

[Alexander Nagel]

They are refueled only once a day about 3pm.

 

As for the house, it sucks! First the Hotel back in 2001 (DURING Coaster Con! None the less). Progress is important but not if you can't see where you've come from.

 

I hate to love Dorney Park, i've grown up at that parks, rode my first woodie and looper there (in the same day...10 minutes apart!). Cedar Fair doesn't seem to GIVE a crap about anything historic, if it cost them too much money to do anything with it, then it's good bye....

[Hercules]

Did anyone even know this building existed before today? :shock:

 

No... I've only been to the park like 100 times in my life

[robbalvey]

^ I actually thought Kip's question was valid.

 

And Kip, to give you an honest answer. No. I never knew it existed.

 

But much like the Original Berry Stand where most people would walk right past and not know, those who DID notice it does kind of remove some of the charm.

 

But hey, I can see why they are taking it down. I'm sure it costs a lot more to have these old buildings remain.

 

And who wants a park with any charm or history anyway, right?

 

--Robb

[pvcoasterguy]

This is exactly why I don't want Cedar Fair to get some of the Six Flags Parks. You know what would happen at Great America? First thing, Whizzer is going to yanked. Themes would deminish. All of the parts of the park from the old days? Gone.

 

At least Six Flags has some form of a heart.

[ParkTrips]

I'm not going to go into a long rant about this because some people already know my feelings on the matter, and I'm just so saddened about it that I just don't want to talk about it.

 

Do it, I love when you talk dirty Besides, with all of the praise that Cedar Fair gets I like when criticism is heard.

 

BTW dude get in touch with me, I got something today that you may like

 

- Joe, who feels for Jay

[Cameron]

Even if no-one explicitly notices each of these old buildings, their presence adds to the overall feel of the park. Taking one or even two away probably won't make such an impact, but remove it all and you're left with a cold and sterile environment.

 

Exactly what Snyder says he'll do to Six Flags.

 

Cameron.

[Hercules]

^ I actually thought Kip's question was valid.

 

And Kip, to give you an honest answer. No. I never knew it existed.

 

But much like the Original Berry Stand where most people would walk right past and not know, those who DID notice it does kind of remove some of the charm.

 

But hey, I can see why they are taking it down. I'm sure it costs a lot more to have these old buildings remain.

 

And who wants a park with any charm or history anyway, right?

 

--Robb

 

After that answer, I kind of realized that it was valid too. I understand where he was going with it. It's not like it is the most prominant building in the world or anything like that. It is not like it is something that is well known. I guess I just take something like that for granted since I have been going to the park since I was 3 (I don't remeber that first time, but I did get my head stuck in a fence that day to which a big black dude came over and got me out somehow 8) ). Anyway, I guess the whole reason that people that "didn't know about the building" are going nuts about this is simply because this is Cedar Fair wrecking another park and tearing out its soul. I guess that is what people have been saying all along. I guess the people out in California really know how this is. I suppose there is a slight amount of sympathy/empathy that would probably go along with it all in both directions. I now know how it felt for those who call Knott's their home park, and I assume that they now know the process that is at hand in Dorney.

 

As far as I am concerned, Dorney Park died the day that Cedar Fair took it over. It might not have been noticable at that point in time, but it became noticable in the years after with all of the changes that were made. Sure, some of the changes were for the better with some of the newer and bigger rides, but with those rides a piece of the park was crippled in effect. You could see the transformation of Dorney into Mini-Cedar Point in full force coming into the late 90's and early 2000's. Now, it is in full force and there is no stoping it.

 

I'm a child of the age of what I like to call "The Big 3" (Hercules, Thunderhawk and Laser). I'm a child of the age of a small parking lot, a small amount of trash cans and a Wildwater Kingdom whose name had not been whored out. Sure, things change. I know that. Being a business major I know that it is a cruel world out there. However, when something so close to your heart comes to what it has, it is just too hard to not stop and have to take a breath to prevent yourself from breaking down. That might sound a little extreme, but this place is and was like a second home to me and to see how a corporation can just manhandle it and treat it like its little ragdoll just makes me wonder about many aspects of life. I really miss the old days and I think they were a lot better. But, it is business after all.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am definately a Cedar Fair kind of guy. Yet, it is really tough to stick with them. I've become good friends with Joe (ParkTrips) since I have become an enthusiast (which this rant is for him, sorry if this is not dirty enough for you ) and I have just come to envy Six Flags over Georgia. It is like I am jealous of a Six Flags run park, which kind of scares me a little. I don't know if it shows my evolution as an enthusiast or what, but it just seems like something that I would love. I'm not even sure what that means to tell you the truth, but it just seems like that park has not had its guts ripped out and fed to the dogs. They hold true to their history, unlike Dorney. Dorney put up signs this year depicting some of the history of the park, and believe me, it was a pretty piss-poor effort. I was impressed when I saw them on opening day, but there were so few and there really weren't anything other than say the Flying Dutchman that were really all that significant. I

 

'm not even really sure where I am going with this, but it all comes down to not liking what Cedar Fair is doing. Is it because it is my home park? Yeah, probably. Is it because I am a product of the later portion of the old park? Yes. Am I a major fanboy? Not at all.

 

I am not a fanboy of the park by any means. I do love the park though. I will never stop loving the park. I will hate Cedar Fair for doing what they are doing. I go on the occasional rant here and there about Dorney and Cedar Fair on other sites and to other people. I don't know if it is getting old or what, but people do say that I just need to let it go sometimes. "Dorney this... Cedar Fair that... killing the park this..." It's kind of hard to have it go unnoticed now. I mean really. With Hercules going down (which the footers are still in the lake, which is almost like Cedar Fair wanted to kick Dorney in the balls or something) and now this, it is had to overlook. There were small, little things that added up to big change, but these things are just mega events that are rocking the Dorney world.

 

Dorney Park 1884-1992

 

[YoshiFan]

Excellent post. It's amazing how it only took a few years for the park to totally change because of a change in ownership. The park now just seems to lack character and feels like "just another park" rather than the old Dorney which was special.

[zburns999]

I wish I was able to visit the "old" Dorney. I've had some fun trips to Dorney, but nothing great. I really miss Hercules too!

[MagnumForce]

Looks like a very ubiquitous building too me. Just because it's old doesn't make it historic.

 

Cedar Fair did what they did to the park and obviously it worked. It is a business and they are making loads of money off the place, only behind CP and KNott's in the profit category.

 

CF recreated the park in it's image and I really don't see anythign wrong with that.

 

Talon is great, I think Hydra is great, Steel Force was amazing last time I rode it. The park is immaculate, well run, and definitely has brand identity.

 

Now if CF were to go to CP and tear down the Coliseum or the lobby of the Breakers then I would be up in arms. But too me this building seemed to have little if any intrinsic value other then just being "old."

 

Was this park ever like Knoebel's or Kennywood even in the "Good old days"?

 

If it were I don't see how it ever could have lasted against the likes of GADV in today's world.

[DerekRx]

I don't remember too much about Dorney from my childhood, but I know I was there a few times between the age of 6 and 15. It really did have a lot of charm, not as much as Knoebels, but with older rides like Journey to the Center of the Earth, the Circle Swing, Meteorite, Bucket O Blood, the bumper cars, and the actual creek being a creek complete with little motor boats, etc it was a really nice park. Not to mention there were tons of trees. Sure, you had to walk thru the parking lot to get to Wildwater Kingdom, and I remember as a kid it was pretty rough in the hot sun of July. Then again, its also scorching hot while walking thru the treeless blinding brightness of the whitest concrete walkways possible.

 

While Dorney never could really pull in the crowds like Great Adventure, Wildwater Kingdom was their big seller. With Hurricane Harbor coming in though, and Dorney struggling back in the 1990s, I'd imagine they probably wouldn't be around any more. Still, you'd think a company like CF would try to preserve as much tradition as possible instead of coating everything in cement, placing trash cans every 10 feet, and knocking down old buildings for "progress". Blackpool, Europa, and even SF have no problem saving an older ride or even making the new rides interact with existing structures, why can't CF?

[TheGreatOne]

^ Exactly.

 

Knoebel's almost always preserves buildings that are outdated, and they probably don't have half of the budget that Dorney has. Heck, that park has been hit by floods time and time again and they keep the buildings in pretty good shape. Are they the nicest buildings? No. Are the modern and up to date? Not close. But they are a piece of that unique and "homey" atmosphere that gives you a warm feeling even on a cold fall evening. Dorney Park, even though it is clean and has fun rides, has an empty and cold feeling even on a bright and shiny day. Most CF parks feel this way to me, save Frontier Trail at Cedar Point. Bare, open areas with an ordinary buildings don't have soul. I'd love to see what some of the older locals in Allentown have to say about the park now. Modern, thrilling rides are great, but they shouldn't come at the expense of the soul of the park. Dorney had so many unique attractions...if they would have kept just one or two of them, it would change the atmosphere of the park immensely.

 

 

Little things really do matter, and sadly, too many parks missed that memo a long time ago.

 

-Bryan "who despite his disgust for CF, is still going to Dorney in '06 to have a fun time with friends when he moves back to Ohio and like to speak about himself in third person and use complex way too long run-on sentences without punctuation" Wood

[Real]

All I need to say is:

 

Anthony "VERY quickly losing faith in CF" Harrison

[Hercules]

Looks like a very ubiquitous building too me. Just because it's old doesn't make it historic.

 

Cedar Fair did what they did to the park and obviously it worked. It is a business and they are making loads of money off the place, only behind CP and KNott's in the profit category.

 

CF recreated the park in it's image and I really don't see anythign wrong with that.

 

Talon is great, I think Hydra is great, Steel Force was amazing last time I rode it. The park is immaculate, well run, and definitely has brand identity.

 

Now if CF were to go to CP and tear down the Coliseum or the lobby of the Breakers then I would be up in arms. But too me this building seemed to have little if any intrinsic value other then just being "old."

 

Was this park ever like Knoebel's or Kennywood even in the "Good old days"?

 

If it were I don't see how it ever could have lasted against the likes of GADV in today's world.

 

The building might not seem like much, but it is what started it all. I would say that it is the heart and soul of Dorney. The next thing you know, they will take out the trout too. If they do that, that would be the day.