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Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK, KK) Discussion Thread


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They could replace Chang with a floorless. I kind of saw the closure comming when they announced Chang's removal. It doesn't make sense to me to remove the biggest coaster at the park for a water park expansion. I am still posititve it has a high chance of re-openeing. They are not stopping with the fight.

 

I also think Chang could be replaced with a B&M hyper, if that would fit.

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Raptor plans scrapped.    

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3. Concerns that the proposal would jeopardize possible future uses of the Kentucky Kingdom property.

 

Translation: 50 year lease=no casino.

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^ That explains a lot. If the casino were to be built, it would be cool if they had the casino and a theme park (like Buffalo Bills) or at least a water park since they are in demand at this time and an indoor water park and casino sounds pretty good to me.

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If the casino were to be built, it would be cool if they had the casino and a theme park .

 

There will not be a casino AND a theme park.

 

Would it be feasible to have a Casino and a waterpark? Maybe a waterpark possibly as part of the hotel? I mean as is the way that property is situated with the road down the middle, assuming they keep the road as is, building a hotel and casino on one side and keeping the water park on the other side might now be a bad idea. I could see a standalone water park being more profitable than a full theme park anyways.

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Well, someone should present this idea to the fairboard, imo. I don't think they know of this combination, and having an indoor water park in kentucky would be pretty cool. Just my thoughts though. It would also work out during fall and Winter when Holiday World shuts down their world class water park.

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The Casino waterpark combo seems to be pretty successful across the border. Fallsview Water Park appears to be doing pretty well, and it is built on top of the Parking Garage for the Casino I believe.

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I don't think the fair board wants anything to do with the theme park/water park business anymore. The last few news articles that have been posted make it very clear what their true agenda is. I'm sure if someone looked into it, you would find donations from a hopeful casino developer to people involved with this process. I'm also sure just a few months after Ed Hart's proposal is rejected again, a deal with a casino developer will be announced...

 

To be fair, I also think Ed Hart has ulterior motives. Something doesn't seem right about his persistence to reopen the park given how horrible his landlords (the fair board) are.

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I don't think the fair board wants anything to do with the theme park/water park business anymore. The last few news articles that have been posted make it very clear what their true agenda is. I'm sure if someone looked into it, you would find donations from a hopeful casino developer to people involved with this process. I'm also sure just a few months after Ed Hart's proposal is rejected again, a deal with a casino developer will be announced...

 

 

It sure is looking like that especially know that Beshear is working on getting Williams out of his way once and for all. It won't be long before casinoss are legal here in Kentucky. I just think its funny that the State doesn't want to be on the hook for 30 million or take any chances of any kind of debt. Helllooooo, the park in the first year its open is going to make way more than 30 million.

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^^ How do you figure?

 

Sure, maybe gross income tops 30 million if they have an unbelievably stellar first season. So ok $30 mil, but then you have to start taking away your overhead, labor costs, electric and water bills, insurance costs ect.

 

Besides, Louisville isn't exactly the biggest market. 42nd in the U.S. to be exact. Im not saying that the greater Louisville area couldn't support a park, these things just take time and some reasonable expectations.

 

Anytime a new park opens (most hospitality businesses really), it should be expected to not receive a profit for at least the first three, more likely five years of operation. This is even more so true for parks that have closed. The chances of a shuttered park reopening are always slim. The chance that that reopened park succeeds is even slimmer.

 

That being said, it really is a shame the fair board and Mr. Hart can't seem to reach an agreement. Anytime a park sits like this is a real disappointment.

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^^ How do you figure?

 

Sure, maybe gross income tops 30 million if they have an unbelievably stellar first season. So ok $30 mil, but then you have to start taking away your overhead, labor costs, electric and water bills, insurance costs ect.

 

Besides, Louisville isn't exactly the biggest market. 42nd in the U.S. to be exact. Im not saying that the greater Louisville area couldn't support a park, these things just take time and some reasonable expectations.

 

Anytime a new park opens (most hospitality businesses really), it should be expected to not receive a profit for at least the first three, more likely five years of operation. This is even more so true for parks that have closed. The chances of a shuttered park reopening are always slim. The chance that that reopened park succeeds is even slimmer.

 

That being said, it really is a shame the fair board and Mr. Hart can't seem to reach an agreement. Anytime a park sits like this is a real disappointment.

 

I totally agree and I might have slightly over-estimated in my sarcasm but I just can't believe the State thinks that even if they backed a loan or had rides used to back the loan that they would never see that money again. The State just doesn't want to accept that over a few years they would get that back and probably eventually double or triple that over the course of whatever kind of lease is agreed upon, but unfortunately I have to side with the general consensus here that this park is never going to see the light of day again. The State has made it pretty clear they don't want to work with Hart anymore.

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If the over-heads thought bringing a park back to this property would be profitable, it would've reopened already.

 

They don't, so it hasn't.

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^Well they did have a deal with the Koch family in place, so obviously someone thought a theme park was a good idea. I just don't think they want a theme park operated by Ed Hart. I also still think they have a deal in place for a casino just waiting to be pushed through when Ed Hart's RFP isn't approved.

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It just doesn't seem like it's anywhere close to an ideal location for a casino, right across from the airport. Most casinos want a bit of a resort feel to them, at least that's what I see in my neck of the woods with the Indian casinos of Oklahoma seemingly trying to go upscale instead of the metal buildings off of interstate exits.

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^The entire south end of Las Vegas Strip is right next to the airport. They'll make it work if that is the direction they want to go.

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It just doesn't seem like it's anywhere close to an ideal location for a casino, right across from the airport. Most casinos want a bit of a resort feel to them, at least that's what I see in my neck of the woods with the Indian casinos of Oklahoma seemingly trying to go upscale instead of the metal buildings off of interstate exits.

 

The casino they're building here in Cincinnati is in an ugly part of town. It's sandwiched between two very busy roads, a Greyhound bus station, and the county jail.

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The sad part is you can't have your 16 year old high school kids working at a Casino. There are so many jobs at Mcdonalds, so that just leaves them to raom the streets and cause trouble.

 

But it will put a number of people to work over 18 all year and that is far better than Seaonal work for the area. With a better business climate in the area, places like McD's will hire more.

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I know its too early but this is a good sign. The Kentucky Finance Cabinet actually wants to meet with Ed Hart and his group in an actual meeting to discuss Hart's proposal:

 

The Kentucky Finance and Administration Cabinet has contacted Louisville businessman Ed Hart to discuss his proposal to reopen the Kentucky Kingdom amusement park.

 

As Business First reported, a meeting between cabinet officials and Hart's Kentucky Kingdom Redevelopment Co. is being arranged for next week, according to a news release from the company.

 

Hart is a previous owner and operator of Kentucky Kingdom.

 

Hart’s proposal calls for an investment of $120 million to reopen the park, which closed in 2009 and remained shuttered after Six Flags Inc. abandoned its lease amid bankruptcy proceedings.

 

Here's the link to the article:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/blog/morning_call/2012/11/state-seeks-details-about-harts.html

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Yeah. Casinos tend to work pretty much wherever you put them. Even on rivers.

Not always. In St. Louis, the President's Casino failed a couple years ago. Flooding was a contributing factor as well as competition.

 

If Hart wants this to work, he needs to have 3 things right.

 

1. He needs to choose carefully what attractions are worth the investment to revive and which ones are not. Ed in his videos seems to be a bit sentimental about some of his selections which in fairness were good at first but have not held up as well in terms of relevance. Getting rid of the Greezed Lightnin' and keeping both of the current woodies is a mistake in my perspective. Greezed Lightnin' although old is unique to this area, Thunder Run and Twisted Twins are nothing significant and considering their closest rival is HW, they need much better wooden coasters if they want to compete. I would axe one of the two woodies (no pun intended) and replace it with either an Intamin pre-fabricated woodie or RMC inverted woodie (depending on popularity.

 

2. Each individual addition to the park MUST count for the long haul. Clones like the Boomerang and SLC that Hart has used in the past will not cut it. If the segment is offered somewhere near by or is offered at nearly every chain parks location, he needs to avoid it like the plague. I would say that a Dive Coaster has some potential, I would also say he should also consider a Intamin Steel Launched coaster like the Maverick as a possibility.

 

3. If he is really planing on staying for the long haul this time around. He needs to have a plan to keep the park maintain popularity if not growing in popularity without putting it in a state of never ending reinvestment. Some is definitely necessary, but a new coaster every other year is not necessarily a practical business move. He needs to figure out a reason why people like I should take my time and money to drive to Kentucky when I have a theme park less than an hour away.

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