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Carowinds Discussion Thread

P. 403 - Park opening for a limited Holiday Event!

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I'm happy for the park and I'm sure the GP will be all over it which is what the park is hoping for but doesn't change the fact that the return on investment will be bleak.

 

Ah yes, I'm glad you're so privy to their financial expectations relating to building the tallest, fastest, longest traditional steel coaster in the Americas. I'm sure their ROI will be "bleak" since people will avoid the park in droves because this ride isn't an Intamin masochist machine. What this boils down to is that this ride will be a massive hit. The GP will eat it up, I'll enjoy it and I'm sure the majority of enthusiasts will too. If you think that building a B&M gigacoaster will somehow result in less return on investment vs an Intamin one, you're just delusional. You know what keeps people away from a new ride?

 

Off putting due to discomfort: Stand at the exit of Intimidator 305 for a few cycles, and you'll see plenty of people getting off of the ride saying "HOLY SH%T THAT'S A CRAZY RIDE, I'm getting right back in line". You'll also hear just as many people saying "HOLY SH%T THAT'S JUST TOO MUCH, I DONT THINK I'LL EVER RIDE THAT CRAZY THING AGAIN, IT'S JUST TOO MUCH". And then they'll walk over to Dominator or Volcano and stand in a 60-90 minute queue to enjoy those rides more.

Reliability Issues: People will avoid going if the big new attraction is closed, and those who still go will be upset/disappointed. I305 was closed for an entire month last season, and during it's 1st season had significant reliability problems.

As for actual "return on investment"... replacing thrashed wheels that cost over $1000 on a daily basis isn't good business sense, neither is having to rebuild a part of your brand new coaster because it placed too much stress on the train and it's riders.

Ridership: I305 is obviously the king of the park- the big new flashy ride, yet it garners less of a wait running 1 train than Flight of Fear, Volcano and Dominator do running multiple trains every single day. Want to talk about bad return on investment? No brand new record breaking ride should ever be a constant walk on while the "old hat" rides around it garner lengthy queues- but that's exactly what happens on I305.

 

Those are the issues that any park actually cares about with their new attraction, which is why parks will continue wait on a several years long wait list just to have the pleasure of building a crowd pleasing, massive capacity, 99% uptime ride that costs a fortune. At this point I think parks know whether or not B&M's have a good "return on investment".

 

For everyone else... yes I know it's juts such a "disappointment" that you're going to be punished with a top 20 coaster that doesn't thrash you around and have huge reliability/safety problems. Honestly this sour attitude over any park that chooses not to build the craziest most unique Intamin ride on earth is really getting old. Complain all you want about B&M and their lack of innovation/solid rides but over the last few years they've brought Giga coasters, new style inverted coasters, wing coasters and launched coasters to the market yet they're still "stale".

 

At this point lets just have establish a standard response to all rides every built in the future:

Every single park should be ashamed of themselves for even considering things like guest feedback, return on investment, reliability, maintenance cost or safety- they should have just built a mega lite, an aquatrax or an I305. Anything else is just boring/disappointing/not worth your time. Which is fine, because luckily not a single park on earth needs to cater to the 1% of visitors that comprise bitchy enthusiasts- it's such a negligible demographic. "Events" for enthusiasts amount to nothing more than a company picnic for the parks bottom line, and that's about the only thing the park ever bothers to care about with regards to enthusiasts beyond Holiday World.

 

 

Banshee at kings island is always a walk on....

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People are way to critical. Your actually complaining about a new Giga coaster. When leviathan was built people complained about it not having enough airtime. What do they do with the one, they add more airtime. And people still complain!

 

Where do you see more airtime? There is the same exact number of hills. And It will most likely be 0g floater at best.

 

I do like the colors.

This has 3 hills and leviathan 2. While those may be bigger, it does look like some of those twists and turns could have some air.

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Leviathan has like two or three airtime moments while this has at least 5 or 6. I agree that this isn't similar at all to Intimidator. It's no more similar than MF is to Maverick or Gemini is to Magnum or Behemoth is to leviathan. It's an amazing looking ride. It may not have as much airtime as other coasters but that'sOK. It doesn't have to be. Look at Maverick. It has 2 moments of Airtime and many consider it the best in the world.

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Can't we just sum the last year worth of discussion on this (and every new ride discussed on TPR) in a few short statements?

 

"Looks great, good for said park, I'm sure the crowds will love it"

"Boo, it's not an Intamin... fail"

"Not enough airtime"

"Should have built an Aquatrax"

"Should have built a mega lite"

"So cookie cutter"

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I think it looks wonderful, especially how it will interact with the new entrance to the park. As for the ride experience I don't know what to think. I though Leviathan looked underwhelming when I first saw announcement but ended up enjoying it very much and more so than Behemoth.

 

It also makes me think about what Dorney could do if they ever got an giga...wishful thinking though and i'd rather have another solid woodie anyways.

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This looks better than Leviathan in every possible way. Bigger hill, bigger drop, more elements, longer length, no dumb brake runs.

 

And Leviathan is the 13th ranked ride in THE ENTHUSIASTS poll.

 

Anyone who is flat out complaining about this ride is someone I will never, ever listen to for their opinion. It will be a top 15 steel coaster in the world when it opens, and a thrilling, iconic attraction for 40 years.

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This ride seriously looks like pure perfection to me. Leviathan is one of my top rides of all time and this layout takes Leviathan and just adds a whole bunch more awesomness to it.

 

I can't wait to get to this park next year... So jealous!

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Banshee at kings island is always a walk on....

 

... That's because it's a very high capacity coaster. Line length has little to do with popularity. Last year, GateKeeper had over 2 million rides, but it's almost always a walk on when I've ridden it. Technically, it's the most popular coaster in the whole park, it just doesn't usually have a line. The exact same thing applies to Banshee.

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To be honest, why are people SURPRISED about this and are only now complaining? You knew EXACTLY what you were getting when B&M came around and this being a giga if you followed this. It's exactly what will be eaten up by GP with the record and layout. What we should realize is B&M hasn't created any bad coasters ever besides a few stand-ups and (in my opinion) Gatekeeper. It's not like they just handed you a Volare and asked you to use your imagination.

 

 

 

That being said, their are two pretty promising points in the layout. The low to the ground overbanked s-curves and the drop below the walkway. The rest seems like a definite cookie-cutter ride, but this is a giga custom cookie-cutter and not an actual cookie-cutter spinning coaster stuffed into a building with special paint. *cough* Hersheypark *cough* I personally am excited for the ride as it won't really disappoint as a giga coaster and will provide an amazing ROI for Carowinds.

 

 

 

And the new entrance looks BEAUTIFUL in my opinion. Including the landscaped drop under the walkway. That looks like it will be pretty to walk over and really give a nice atmosphere before you enter. Again, this entire project gives exactly what the park needs.

 

 

 

For the ones who say a wing coaster would be better, how many wing coasters have you heard get as many rave reviews as Leviathan? I don't understand how coaster enthusiasts think wing coasters would be a better ride than a giga? Remember guys, even though Thunderbird is a wing coaster, the only reason people are excited is because B&M is actually making a launched coaster. If it had a lift and a drop, I bet people would not find the coaster as glamorous. Not bashing Thunderbird, but lets look at what B&M has made and realize Banshee is just one coaster and not necessarily a "comeback."

 

 

 

:soapbox:

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They're the same manufacturer, which is the biggest similarity that Fury and Intimidator have so ya, don't even seem similar so stop complaining!

 

Thanks for clarifying that MF and Maverick are from the same manufacturer. I had no idea!

You're a fanboy of F:325 and I'm not. So that makes me wrong?

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Nice ride. I wondered this with Canada's Wunderland too, what made them choose to build a 200ft B&M sit down coaster then build a 300ft B&M a few years later. Maybe if it was a different style of car or company I would be a lot more excited about it. I wonder if CF plans on moving Behemoth and Intimidator to different parks in the future?

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I have to admit, one thing that did disappoint me a bit is the drop angle. I thought it would be more like 85 and I'm sure that (despite the train length) it would be more than fine if it were vertical, given its height.

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Nice ride. I wondered this with Canada's Wunderland too, what made them choose to build a 200ft B&M sit down coaster then build a 300ft B&M a few years later. Maybe if it was a different style of car or company I would be a lot more excited about it. I wonder if CF plans on moving Behemoth and Intimidator to different parks in the future?

 

Always wondered about why parks build something so similar in the same park (Leviathan & Behemoth, Intimidator & Fury325). It would just seem logical to switch it up. Then again, I am not in charge of theme park.

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Congratulations Carowinds! Looks like a great ride and a reason to make another trip down there next year.

 

I've always thought that giga coasters were about speed, not airtime, and if you did get some airtime then that is just a bonus. This doesn't look anything like Intimidator so it will be a very different ride experience.

 

I might be the only one a little bummed by it but I thought the antebellum themed main entrance was one of the more unique entrances to a park and I would miss it. This new entrance seems like a clone of CP's new gate, which is waaaay better then the old one at CP, but seems rather bland at Carowinds.

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Nice ride. I wondered this with Canada's Wunderland too, what made them choose to build a 200ft B&M sit down coaster then build a 300ft B&M a few years later. Maybe if it was a different style of car or company I would be a lot more excited about it. I wonder if CF plans on moving Behemoth and Intimidator to different parks in the future?

 

Always wondered about why parks build something so similar in the same park (Leviathan & Behemoth, Intimidator & Fury325). It would just seem logical to switch it up. Then again, I am not in charge of theme park.

 

It's worked amazingly so far. You get to world class rides in the same park. Sure its the same model, But they have different style's. One's low to the ground high speed and the others Large airtime. If you don't like it you can just go ride something else like a wild mouse.

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looks like a monster hope they don't fill the supports with sand I would love to hear that classic B&M roar

This. And right by the entrance of the park it would look even more intimidating. But that's what concerns me, due to the location they might silence it to be more "friendly".

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I've been reading on Carowinds' Facebook page some of the reactions to Fury 325, and I'm very surprised that no one has said anything about it being similar to Intimidator. That was the reaction when CW announced Leviathan, but I guess that people are realizing that there are differences between i232 and f325. Although, there are some people that are complaining that they didn't get an attraction for families. Seriously, how can you not be happy with a $30 million giga coaster? I'd kill for Valleyfair to get something like this!

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looks like a monster hope they don't fill the supports with sand I would love to hear that classic B&M roar

This. And right by the entrance of the park it would look even more intimidating. But that's what concerns me, due to the location they might silence it to be more "friendly".

 

that's very understandable

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Nice ride. I wondered this with Canada's Wunderland too, what made them choose to build a 200ft B&M sit down coaster then build a 300ft B&M a few years later. Maybe if it was a different style of car or company I would be a lot more excited about it. I wonder if CF plans on moving Behemoth and Intimidator to different parks in the future?

 

Always wondered about why parks build something so similar in the same park (Leviathan & Behemoth, Intimidator & Fury325). It would just seem logical to switch it up. Then again, I am not in charge of theme park.

 

Once again, they arent similar besides manufacturer. Ill ask again, would it be different if Fury 325 had the EXACT SAME layout but was made by Intamin? Is it really that dumbfounding for a park to have two coasters built by the same person in the same park? Is Holiday World making confusinh business decisions by having three wooden roller coasters in the park? I mean, same materials, same track type, must be all the same ride then right?

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