DBru Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I believe you are both saying the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBreak95 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 If that layout is accurate, or close to accurate, it looks like a dive loop off the lift (along the beach) followed directly by either another dive loop or an immelmann. If it's the latter, there will be some good forces at the bottom! Probably another dive loop over at the entrance, and that long straight portion before the helix at the end is definitely the extended barrel roll they all have. The s-bend over it is probably a corkscrew like on Wild Eagle, so one more inversion after those would give it the record for a wingrider! I don't think we are seeing a dive loop or immelmann off the lift there. My suggestion is that it is more like a norwegian loop off the lift. It will top the lift and rotate around 180 degrees and dive down, then half loop back up to rotate another 180degrees. It doesn't look to be like there is enough room in that layout for a 170ft lift, drop, and then rise again for the first inversion. Also, that is going to be the mother of all corkscrews. It looks HUGE! Were all suggesting here. a 170' lift can be accomplished in that area. No one knew how a 300' coaster could fit along frontier trail, and here came MF. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 ^I'm not saying the lift won't fit, I'm saying there doesn't appear to be room for a drop and an immelman after it, so it will likely have a drop more like X-flight and Swarm. Plus why would anyone doubt Millennium would fit along the frontier trail? It's a huge area. I don't think that ever came into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazywolf88 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 The Wingrider will fit, period. No one should even start thinking about how a ride can't fit into an area after what we saw with Grona Lund and Twister. Another note is that somewhere on the Dollywood thread, during a construction preview by a TPR member he said that Wild Eagle's lift was so steep that one is not permitted on it without a harness That was the reason he didn't climb it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Nobody is suggesting the ride won't fit into any given area. The topic of conversation is decoding the layout posted in the newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I don't think we are seeing a dive loop or immelmann off the lift there. My suggestion is that it is more like a norwegian loop off the lift. It will top the lift and rotate around 180 degrees and dive down (ala X-Flight, or Swarm) then half loop back up to rotate another 180degrees. I believe you are both saying the same thing. Yeah, that's exactly what I said... a Norwegian Loop is just a dive loop and an immelmann smashed together, aka my "suggestion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qixote Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 At first I was sad to see that Space Spiral is being removed. It has been part of the CP skyline for longer than I have been alive (trust me, that's a long time). But I came to realize that for awhile now it has been dwarfed by coasters and other rides taller than it for many years now. Although I wish CP would eventually replace it with a new observation tower that once again dominates its skyline. The peninsula craves for that. It would need to be at least 500 ft tall or else it would not be worth doing. Eh, it will never happen anyway. Good move getting rid of DT. Never did like that kiddie ride in disguise. It has been a waste of prime real estate ever since it began as Avalanche Run. Now if they only get rid of the biggest waste of space. . . Mean Streak. Or give it the Texas Giant treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 As far as I'm concerned, Windseeker was (and is for any other park) a good replacement for an aging observation tower. It was just a replacement in advance in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I don't think we are seeing a dive loop or immelmann off the lift there. My suggestion is that it is more like a norwegian loop off the lift. It will top the lift and rotate around 180 degrees and dive down (ala X-Flight, or Swarm) then half loop back up to rotate another 180degrees. I believe you are both saying the same thing. Yeah, that's exactly what I said... a Norwegian Loop is just a dive loop and an immelmann smashed together, aka my "suggestion." I thought you were describing it differently My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Nope, we were on the same page with the second one! Quality drawings, by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 lol. Microsoft paint is a perfectly respectable medium. I totally agree about space spiral too. I was sad, but for skyline purposes I'm glad Windseeker is in the neighborhood. Plus a new coaster in the skyline is always great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qixote Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 As far as I'm concerned, Windseeker was (and is for any other park) a good replacement for an aging observation tower. It was just a replacement in advance in this case. But Windseeker is too generic. Cedar Fair in all their wisdom thought it was a good idea to buy them in bulk and install them in all their parks. CP deserves features that are more unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STR8FXXXINEDGE Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) ^ They're generic to us, cause we study everything and know what every park on the planet has. The average GP is gonna have NO idea that another park has the same thing, or that those parks are owned by the same company, or better yet, they may not even know the other parks exist. Edited May 31, 2012 by STR8FXXXINEDGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 If that's the way you see it perhaps you should count how many observation towers there are like Space Spiral. There are a lot more of those than there are Windseekers. Not to say you don't have a point. It's a bit silly that they built so many in the same market. It's practically unforgivable to me they installed one at CP AND King's Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 What those two guys said. There are plenty of observation towers out there, so that must mean they're generic too. And 95% of the people riding Windseeker at Cedar Point probably have no clue that the same exact ride was plopped down in four other places across the continent. Maybe KI, but aside from that, doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11slataus Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Looking at the layout on pg. 1168, why would they have to remove Space Spiral at all? Coaster doesn't even touch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfburner1 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Why is every park getting wingrider's? I'd rather have a 4-D coaster like X2...I still think the ride is going to be great. Hopefully it will be the best wingrider in the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qixote Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Being in central Ohio, it was very obvious when the too biggest theme parks in the state got the same ride in the same year. Imagine if Cedar Fair continues doing stuff like that. What point would there be to visit both CP and KI when they would be essentially the same park. Yes I know the Space Spiral type towers were common decades ago. Although CP's was a bit taller than most others. But in terms of discussing an observation tower replacement, I would wish for something more unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commando Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It could be possible that they relocate Space Spiral to another section of the park. It doesn't have a very big footprint so I don't think it would be that hard to find a place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 ^^Because giving the two parks the same flat ride means that we've created an irreversible trend that will ruin Ohio theme parks. Looking at the layout on pg. 1168, why would they have to remove Space Spiral at all? Coaster doesn't even touch it. Queue maybe? Open up the area a bit for increased traffic? Or just because it's old and it doesn't even run consistently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammmmmy Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It could be possible that they relocate Space Spiral to another section of the park. It doesn't have a very big footprint so I don't think it would be that hard to find a place for it. I think I read somewhere recently that space spirals tower goes down very far into the ground, which would make moving it quite difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingoman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Space Spiral has a few things working against it that probably made them pull the plug. It really doeesn't appear to be affected by the new ride, but it's very aged, it has only operated at half capacity for many years now with the upper level being far too hot in the summer time, and it's ridership has declined tremedously. There is also the issue that high winds shut it down very frequently out on that peninsula. Quimet mentioned very early on that he was going to focus on removing aged, and unpopular attractions, as well as those that have become more costly. Space Spiral really fits all of those categories. It's a bit sad but it seems the time has come. ^^Because giving the two parks the same flat ride means that we've created an irreversible trend that will ruin Ohio theme parks. It's not like they both installed scramblers in the same year here. These are major signature rides. You wouldn't clone Raptor at KI, or Diamondback at CP. Flat rides on that scale should not be installed at parks so close together. I frown on the proximity of MaXair and Delirium as well, however it's not as bad as putting two batman clones in the SAME CITY *cough cough Fiesta Texas cough cough* Edited May 31, 2012 by Zingoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qixote Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 ^^Because giving the two parks the same flat ride means that we've created an irreversible trend that will ruin Ohio theme parks. Well maybe I should have rephrased that. Putting the same new rides into two popular parks within the same state gives people in that state less reason to visit both parks to see the new ride. In Ohio, years ago when CP and KI were owned seperately, they would each get new big rides every year, or every other year. People here would visit both parks to primarily ride the new rides (along with the old ones the've already rode many times). No reason to visit both parks when the new rides are the same; unless you just want to go to ride all their old rides at both again. But new rides are typically what keeps the crowds coming to parks. Anyway, I was not trying to be an alarmist. Was just saying I do not want CF to make that a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiSab Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Flat rides on that scale should not be installed at parks so close together. I frown on the proximity of MaXair and Delirium as well, however it's not as bad as putting two batman clones in the SAME CITY *cough cough Fiesta Texas cough cough* Simply to play devil's advocate, maXair and Delirium were installed under two separate ownerships, well before CF purchased the Paramount Parks. But I get your point. And if the reason for the upper deck on Space Spiral being closed was due to the heat, it must've been unbearable. The bottom level felt like a sauna on some days. And the filthy, never-seen-Windex-ever windows made the views and potential photography options awful. At least the Giant Wheel is still in the vicinity to get some of the views from that side of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBreak95 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Being in central Ohio, it was very obvious when the too biggest theme parks in the state got the same ride in the same year. Imagine if Cedar Fair continues doing stuff like that. What point would there be to visit both CP and KI when they would be essentially the same park. Yes I know the Space Spiral type towers were common decades ago. Although CP's was a bit taller than most others. But in terms of discussing an observation tower replacement, I would wish for something more unique. and along came Windseeker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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