Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[A.J.]

Technically they are both in the same competitive space, in the sense that they are selling inclusive resort experiences. They want you to stay in "the bubble". Go to the park(s) for multiple days, stay at the onsite resort, you know how it goes. Both developments (Walt Disney World too) want you to make your vacation focused on their offerings and their offerings only.

 

That being said, I highly doubt that anything that Cedar Point or Universal Orlando would do would cause some seismic shift in attendance from one to the other. I'd be very surprised if more than a select few "normal" vacation-goers cancelled their Cedar Point trip just because Steel Vengeance had an oopsie, and I would be even more surprised if even a few of THOSE people made plans to go to Universal instead as a result.

[clem2754]

Cedar Point is not competing with Universal Studios or Disney. The closest Universal or Disney park is over a thousand miles from Cedar Point. WTF?

 

I'm beyond entertained at the thought of Cedar Fair executives going on a conference call and being like "Yeah our numbers at Cedar Point are down, but like... have you not seen Slinky Dog Dash, the fact that Disney re-named a 17 year old coaster at a park that's just a short 34 hour drive from our park or that Fast and the Furious Supercharged ride that nobody likes that's also nowhere near us?"

 

Come on...

 

If Cedar Point wants to grow, they have to draw people outside of Ohio, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Indiana, and possibly Chicago. If they want to be a destination attraction and get people from around the country, then yes they are competing with Universal, who doesn't have the roller coasters but is geared towards a similar market overall. Disney is geared towards younger kids. They are going to get what they get in the core market, but the growth is going to come from the people that travel to Cedar Point from further away. So yes Cedar Fair is concerned with what Universal, Six Flags, and even Disney is doing because it impacts the industry.

[DavidB]

Not that this means there is specific direct competition, but I have a friend who just took his family of 4 to CP this summer after a couple years of Orlando vacations. He partly did it because of SV and isn't an enthusiast per se, but seems to be heading that direction as it's something he can share with his step daughter. After his 3 or 4 days at CP he is already talking about going back this fall and staying on the peninsula. Again, not that it means anything major, but when you have a certain amount of money to take a vacation out of town with, they've been swayed towards CP from Orlando, and it really is kind of an either or decision for many.

[coasterbill]

This is so ridiculous. Not only is the premise of the argument ridiculous, but even if it wasn't it's a down year for Disney and Universal compared to what they've done recently and what they're doing next year so it makes even less sense.

 

Yes... a handful of people here and there might have made a decision between Orlando and Sandusky but it's a minuscule amount of people, and we're still talking about an attendance drop that may not even exist because it hasn't been confirmed by anyone.

 

I'm bowing out of this horror show.

[robbalvey]

Cedar Point is not competing with Universal Studios or Disney. The closest Universal or Disney park is over a thousand miles from Cedar Point. WTF?

 

I'm beyond entertained at the thought of Cedar Fair executives going on a conference call and being like "Yeah our numbers at Cedar Point are down, but like... have you not seen Slinky Dog Dash, the fact that Disney re-named a 17 year old coaster at a park that's just a short 34 hour drive from our park or that Fast and the Furious Supercharged ride that nobody likes that's also nowhere near us?"

 

Come on...

Not that this means there is specific direct competition, but I have a friend who just took his family of 4 to CP this summer after a couple years of Orlando vacations. He partly did it because of SV and isn't an enthusiast per se, but seems to be heading that direction as it's something he can share with his step daughter. After his 3 or 4 days at CP he is already talking about going back this fall and staying on the peninsula. Again, not that it means anything major, but when you have a certain amount of money to take a vacation out of town with, they've been swayed towards CP from Orlando, and it really is kind of an either or decision for many.

This is so ridiculous. Not only is the premise of the argument ridiculous, but even if it wasn't it's a down year for Disney and Universal compared to what they've done recently and what they're doing next year so it makes even less sense.

 

Yes... a handful of people here and there might have made a decision between Orlando and Sandusky but it's a minuscule amount of people, and we're still talking about an attendance drop that may not even exist because it hasn't been confirmed by anyone.

 

I'm bowing out of this horror show.

Yeah sorry I have to agree with Bill on this one. I mean, here in Orlando, Universal isn't even looked at as competition for Disney other than by the Universal fanboys who are convinced that everything Disney does is a reaction to something Universal does, which is a horror show conspiracy theory of itself. But anyway, the whole idea that people are thinking that Disney is in any way competition or responsible in any change of attendance for Cedar Point is beyond the point of being laughable. Even if you can site to me examples of people who have chosen to go to CP over Orlando until my eyes start to bleed, you're just making up facts and figures out of total ignorance.

 

If there is any change of attendance at regional parks in Ohio, Orlando has nothing to do with it. Neither does California or New York or any other "destination" someone may want to blame.

[pfalcioni]

I know it's a tangent, but it would be interesting to know the numbers of Disney parks guests who have never been to another theme or amusement park, from personal experience about a third of my Disney-fanatic online buddies have only done Disney and haven't even ventured to Universal, another quarter have done the Florida trifecta of WDW, Universal and either Legoland or Sea World but no other parks. These parks seem to attract a different demographic, I know there's ride geeks like you guys who love all parks, but I'd think the greater majority of WDW/DL guests are not parkgoers, they're Disney people.

[prozach626]

Damn. This thread is savage.

 

Dirk started a great point with the high capacity rides added to the park effecting the wait times for other rides. With everyone chiming in about the water park and general expansions, all of this probably spread out the crowds in a great way.

 

CP just added a new large scale attraction this year. I don't think that even if there were confirmed drops in attendance that there's any nearby competition to take away from CP. I also agree that I don't see any comparison between Orlando and CP. There will be good years and there will be less good years, which are determined by multiple factors. Some are obvious, some are not. I personally think attendance is probably mostly as expected this year. I just appreciate how the park has gotten so big that large scale attractions and updates are more or less the norm, anymore.

[DavidB]

Robb, And I would agree that statistically, nothing Disney or Universal does really has an effect on Cedar Point and vice versa. I was even going against the grain of the discussion about CP's attendance being down. Are either of them concerned with what the other is doing? Strongly strongly doubt it.

 

I was just giving a specific example that there is definite overlap between the audiences of these parks, especially in the band of the country where they are within similar driving distance. They are all looking to get some of the same dollars, but statistically, no there surely isn't much correlation. With their rebranding and destination resort focus I'm sure Cedar Point is looking to nibble what they can in the segment of people who are taking longer distance, multi day vacations; however, it would take a massive shift for Disney to even bat an eye, and surely has nothing to do with this year's attendance numbers.

 

Bill, I agree wholeheartedly about the lack of statistics with regard to the whole discussion. As it's going on I'm thinking "we're talking about conjecture and hearsay like they're actual statistics." Again, just providing an immediate personal experience that just happened last week and could be relevant to the discussion; take it however you wish.

 

Zach, Dirk is on point with his assessment for sure. CP has been installing good, high capacity rides for a while now, while drawing focus to things like the water park and beach as other options, which is surely helping with some of the crowd dispersion. And hopefully the trend continues with the large scale investment on a yearly basis. I do think that all plays into their rebranding and focus on pulling more multiple day visitors from further distances.

[robbalvey]

it would take a massive shift for Disney to even bat an eye

Disney's lowest attended US park did 3 times the attendance than Cedar Point did in 2017. It would probably take a shift of the ENTIRE annual attendance of Cedar Point for Disney to even take notice.

 

That's just how absurd this whole discussion is.

Edited July 10, 2018 by robbalvey

[gearbm95]

Disney and CP are just insanely different...to the point where I don't view the Disney parks as parks but something completely different and immersive. Disney will probably ALWAYS have their built-in audience due to how synonymous they've become with toddler and adolescent culture.

 

Disney will always have the families and "Disney Adults" to keep it booming. CP, and to a certain extent, other regional parks need to expand their markets and come up with innovative ways to increase attendance outside of attractions alone. Amusement parks will probably always be geared toward the 4yo-16yo demo but it wouldn't hurt some regional parks to lift some ideas from DIsney/Universal for special events to increase attendance.

 

How about a Food & Wine festival at SFMM in the spring? Free concert series (actual good acts, not Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Better Than Ezra and other park acts) at CP? Darien Lake has done a great job at increasing attendance considerably the last two years by offering free admission to anyone who purchases a concert ticket to shows at their Live Nation-run amphitheater, granted they have a 25k capacity venue on-site but what is stopping other parks from building something similar? Parks need to improve their programming outside of attractions and maybe take a chance on more adult themed events?

[DavidB]

^^Agreed, and IF numbers are down it's not because a noticeably significant number of people decided to go to Disney instead of CP this year.

 

On a somewhat related note (expansion of offerings-resort, entertainment, and otherwise), does anyone know if there anything at all happening at the Sandcastle Suites location? Or is it just an empty lot at the moment with no activity? I could see expansion of waterpark, guest accommodations(Lighthouse Point or different accommodations), or some new sort of attraction entirely. After it was mentioned that it was being torn down, I don't remember seeing much more about it and at least expected a couple pictures to pop up in this thread after the season started.

[clem2754]

Cedar Point is not competing with Universal Studios or Disney. The closest Universal or Disney park is over a thousand miles from Cedar Point. WTF?

 

I'm beyond entertained at the thought of Cedar Fair executives going on a conference call and being like "Yeah our numbers at Cedar Point are down, but like... have you not seen Slinky Dog Dash, the fact that Disney re-named a 17 year old coaster at a park that's just a short 34 hour drive from our park or that Fast and the Furious Supercharged ride that nobody likes that's also nowhere near us?"

 

Come on...

Not that this means there is specific direct competition, but I have a friend who just took his family of 4 to CP this summer after a couple years of Orlando vacations. He partly did it because of SV and isn't an enthusiast per se, but seems to be heading that direction as it's something he can share with his step daughter. After his 3 or 4 days at CP he is already talking about going back this fall and staying on the peninsula. Again, not that it means anything major, but when you have a certain amount of money to take a vacation out of town with, they've been swayed towards CP from Orlando, and it really is kind of an either or decision for many.

This is so ridiculous. Not only is the premise of the argument ridiculous, but even if it wasn't it's a down year for Disney and Universal compared to what they've done recently and what they're doing next year so it makes even less sense.

 

Yes... a handful of people here and there might have made a decision between Orlando and Sandusky but it's a minuscule amount of people, and we're still talking about an attendance drop that may not even exist because it hasn't been confirmed by anyone.

 

I'm bowing out of this horror show.

Yeah sorry I have to agree with Bill on this one. I mean, here in Orlando, Universal isn't even looked at as competition for Disney other than by the Universal fanboys who are convinced that everything Disney does is a reaction to something Universal does, which is a horror show conspiracy theory of itself. But anyway, the whole idea that people are thinking that Disney is in any way competition or responsible in any change of attendance for Cedar Point is beyond the point of being laughable. Even if you can site to me examples of people who have chosen to go to CP over Orlando until my eyes start to bleed, you're just making up facts and figures out of total ignorance.

 

If there is any change of attendance at regional parks in Ohio, Orlando has nothing to do with it. Neither does California or New York or any other "destination" someone may want to blame.

 

With all due respect Rob, you are incorrect on this. Look at it this way. Look at the Beverage industry. Say you are Pepsi, you main concern might be Coke products, but you also are concerned Gator Aid, Vitamin Water, coffee products, etc. If people elect to have another beverage instead of yours then it impacts you. Now apply it to Cedar Point, Universal, Six Flags, Disney. If the consume dollar is going to other parks that is a factor. If it is going to another entertainment event, that is a factor. So yes Cedar Fair should be concerned about Disney, Six Flags, Universal, etc.

[robbalvey]

With all due respect Rob, you are incorrect on this.

Please don't tell me I'm wrong on something when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. And I say with without any due respect to your comments at all. You don't even know how to spell my name correctly. #dumb

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by robbalvey

[coasterbill]

With all due respect Rob, you are incorrect on this. Look at it this way. Look at the Beverage industry. Say you are Pepsi, you main concern might be Coke products, but you also are concerned Gator Aid, Vitamin Water, coffee products, etc. If people elect to have another beverage instead of yours then it impacts you. Now apply it to Cedar Point, Universal, Six Flags, Disney. If the consume dollar is going to other parks that is a factor. If it is going to another entertainment event, that is a factor. So yes Cedar Fair should be concerned about Disney, Six Flags, Universal, etc.

 

"Say you're Pepsi, but some kid opens up a lemonade stand 16 hours away from your closest retailer and 34 hours away from your second closest retailer that's only open half the year and closed most weekdays and you go to your investors and blame that kid for a revenue drop that may or may not even be happening".

 

Also, what the f*ck is "Gator Aid"?

[Ape]

I miss the days of talking about boats and trains. I never missed those days before this.

[robbalvey]

With all due respect Rob, you are incorrect on this. Look at it this way. Look at the Beverage industry. Say you are Pepsi, you main concern might be Coke products, but you also are concerned Gator Aid, Vitamin Water, coffee products, etc. If people elect to have another beverage instead of yours then it impacts you. Now apply it to Cedar Point, Universal, Six Flags, Disney. If the consume dollar is going to other parks that is a factor. If it is going to another entertainment event, that is a factor. So yes Cedar Fair should be concerned about Disney, Six Flags, Universal, etc.

 

"Say you're Pepsi, but some kid opens up a lemonade stand 16 hours away from your closest retailer and 34 hours away from your second closest retailer that's only open half the year and closed most weekdays and you go to your investors and blame that kid for a revenue drop that may or may not even be happening".

 

Also, what the f*ck is "Gator Aid"?

"Say you're Pepsi..."

 

Just shoot me now.

[CoasterAuditor]

I can't believe I just poked my head in this thread to see people are trying to argue with Robb Alvey about the amusement park industry . Guess next they will try to argue with Neil Tyson about space.

[gearbm95]

With all due respect Rob, you are incorrect on this.

Please don't tell me I'm wrong on something when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. And I say with without any due respect to your comments at all. You don't even know how to spell my name correctly. #dumb

 

 

Chill...its a message board lol. If only the CP execs were this passionate ha.

[CoasterInk]

With all due respect Rob, you are incorrect on this. Look at it this way. Look at the Beverage industry. Say you are Pepsi, you main concern might be Coke products, but you also are concerned Gator Aid, Vitamin Water, coffee products, etc. If people elect to have another beverage instead of yours then it impacts you. Now apply it to Cedar Point, Universal, Six Flags, Disney. If the consume dollar is going to other parks that is a factor. If it is going to another entertainment event, that is a factor. So yes Cedar Fair should be concerned about Disney, Six Flags, Universal, etc.

 

"Say you're Pepsi, but some kid opens up a lemonade stand 16 hours away from your closest retailer and 34 hours away from your second closest retailer that's only open half the year and closed most weekdays and you go to your investors and blame that kid for a revenue drop that may or may not even be happening".

 

Also, what the f*ck is "Gator Aid"?

This comment literally just made my day... Thank you!!!!!

[boldikus]

 

Also, what the f*ck is "Gator Aid"?

 

I think this counts as a gator aid.

 

[fbvideonew]

[/fbvideonew]

[Nrthwnd]

^ Hey, if it's on ABC it must be true!

[anonymouscactus]

But Anonymouscactus says on here that they go the first weekend of Halloweekends because the crowds are light...

 

First *Sunday*. Keep in mind PointFest falls on Saturday, September 15th. No thank you. I can't legitimately speak for Friday nights as I've never been but early on I'd imagine it wouldn't be too bad. Keep in mind that there are no scare zones on Sundays as well.

 

Also the only other downside to the day after PointFest is you can't park in the CP Shores parking lot since they put the stage out there.

[robbalvey]

With all due respect Rob, you are incorrect on this.

Please don't tell me I'm wrong on something when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. And I say with without any due respect to your comments at all. You don't even know how to spell my name correctly. #dumb

 

 

Chill...its a message board lol. If only the CP execs were this passionate ha.

You can leave anytime and no one will miss you.

[DavidB]

But Anonymouscactus says on here that they go the first weekend of Halloweekends because the crowds are light...

 

First *Sunday*. Keep in mind PointFest falls on Saturday, September 15th. No thank you. I can't legitimately speak for Friday nights as I've never been but early on I'd imagine it wouldn't be too bad. Keep in mind that there are no scare zones on Sundays as well.

 

Also the only other downside to the day after PointFest is you can't park in the CP Shores parking lot since they put the stage out there.

 

Thanks for the clarification; I didn't remember fully I guess! If the hotel pricing is an indication, the park must feel the first weekend has the lowest traffic, as it is lower than the rest of the weekends. It's cheapest the first weekend and ramps up peaking the third and second to last weekend, dropping slightly for the last weekend.

 

I made the mistake before of not taking full advantage of Friday because I had a bad headache and wanted to watch the Cardinals NLCS game, and then Saturday was so swamped they sold out of FL+ before I tried to buy them. It was a beautiful Columbus Day weekend....avoid Columbus Day weekend... But the couple times I've gone on Friday the lines were definitely manageable, even last time when the only things running were Gatekeeper and Valravn due to wind.

 

But yeah, not being able to park in the back lot is a bummer as well if you're not staying on the peninsula.

[Mossed]

How about a Food & Wine festival at SFMM in the spring? Free concert series (actual good acts, not Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Better Than Ezra and other park acts)

 

This opinion is so crazy you might as well be walkin on the sun.

 

I'm interested in seeing the attendance, I don't think the park has done poorly this year. t's not like 2012 when the parking lot seemed pretty dead on a regular basis. I do think the park has done a great job spreading people around with recent additions. The beach, in particular, seems to have had substantial growth.