EL TORO vs. THE VOYAGE

[sfne2005]

(Balder still takes the #1 overall spot, though)

\

 

LAME!

 

You're lame emo....

 

Balder is better and more "exclusive"

[Manic Monte]

If you asked me which coaster I'd return to ride first, it would be Voyage hands down. Of course part of that could be the fact that I'd also get to ride Legend and Raven. While El Toro is just a fabulous coaster, you do have to go through the hassle of inconsistent operations to get to it.

 

Having said that, I'd take either of these on the west coast somewhere. Instead, California is littered with the same inversions over and over.

[DCs221]

Yeah you'd also get Legend and Raven at Holiday World, but don't forget that Great Adventure has Nitro, Kingda Ka, and Chiller, all of which are significantly different than pretty much anything on the west coast.

[Manic Monte]

No doubt. I just have a special affinity for Holiday World and their hospitality, combined with great operations and three of my favorite woodies anywhere.

 

But yeah, Nitro is also one of my favorites, and Chiller is great (although in 3 visits I have yet to catch it actually open ). I haven't ridden it since 2001.

[robbalvey]

While El Toro is just a fabulous coaster, you do have to go through the hassle of inconsistent operations to get to it.

It will be interesting to see how it does this year. Everyone told us "horror stories" from last year, and while I only have one brief encounter, it opened with the park at 10:30 and they ran two trains VERY efficiently until closing.

 

Sure the line was 90 minutes most of the day, but so were the lines for most other coasters in the park (Superman, Nitro, Batman, etc)

 

I'm hoping they will have worked out the kinks for this season because there really is not good reason for that ride NOT to run with great operations.

 

--Robb

[Guest]

Nah, this isn't RRC! We all understand that people are entitled to their opinions no matter how wacky they might sound to one person or no matter how much someone might disagree.

 

--Robb "Unless of course you're just pointlessly bashing the ride like Mr. DragonKahn and Expedition GeForce!" Alvey

 

Nah, I can find something positive to say about every coaster I've ridden (except maybe Quantum Loop, but Seabreeze thankfully dismantled that multi-dimensional pain machine years ago). El Toro sure looks impressive (in style, height, and grace) and I can't deny that the airtime is extreme, it's just not enjoyable. I hear that everyone gets stapled on ET, so I can only assume that smaller people have just enough wiggle room for the airtime to not be painful (a la the Supermen before the changes in the restraints, perhaps?). The closest comparison I have to the experience of El Toro's airtime in those trains is when the Riverside Cyclone was still running the Morgans. Yeah, I could do it once or twice, but it was an exercise in getting my butt (and gut) kicked (and not in the way I like, a la The Voyage or Avalanche).

 

So it goes...I'm just glad that there's enough new, quality wood out there lately that we can have these kinds of debates.

 

-Jason, wishing he could afford a trip to Kemah Boardwalk this season

[robbalvey]

So it goes...I'm just glad that there's enough new, quality wood out there lately that we can have these kinds of debates.

Agreed!

 

And yeah, you do get stapled on El Toro, but I also got stapled on Voyage too....

[Darien Laker]

Wow, the mixed reviews for the ride leave me not knowing what to expect. I can't wait to ride El Toro this summer. It really does look like it's got everything it needs to become my number one wood coaster....the current which is Wild One at SFA.

 

Also, Quantum Loop wasn't even the worst coaster in WNY

 

I can think of 3 coasters at Darien Lake worse than Quantum Loop....two of them being Vekomas and the other being a wood coaster

[KrakenKing]

Hmm... by August 3rd I'll be able to join this debate...

 

June 2nd will be my first ride on El Toro

August 3rd will be my first ride on El Voyage... er... The Voyage

 

I could also get into a debate with both Robb and Elissa first hand on the Midwest Trip if I think Voyage is better

[Guest]

You really sound pretty selfish in your opinions and biased in your rankings.

 

In fairness, I will cop to being one of the most selfish people I know. I'm also very honest, hence said admission.

 

As for bias, anyone's ranking of anything based on opinion is going to be biased by definition, otherwise everything being ranking would be tied for first (or last). If you're saying that I have a bias against Intamin or pre-fab woodies, I wouldn't agree (though I have low expectations from both, based upon recent experiences...i.e. uncomfortable trains and frequent downtime). If you're saying I have a bias in favor of personal comfort while riding, I would agree wholeheartedly. An uncomfortable ride due to uncomfortable trains can knock off close to half the points a ride has earned with me right off the top. Hence El Toro's status in the middle of the pack with me (for the record, there are an additional 67 woodies ranked lower than ET on my list, so I definitely have more respect/fondness for it than say Timberhawk, Gwazi, or Rebel Yell). Conversely, rides like Leap the Dips, Lakeside Cyclone, and Joyland Roller Coaster get a little extra credit with me for being super comfy (though in the case of the Cyclone, it would still be a pretty dang good ride with more modern trains, I suspect).

 

It works both ways...I know a lot of people who have The Voyage lower than number 20 on their lists, and that's cool. I just wish they wouldn't call it "rough." It's intense and aggressive, yes, but aside from that one spot of nasty back compression on the turnaround (that little speed hump near the exit of it), it's not rough. Of course, I'm the type who puts J2 in that same category (very aggressive, but not super-rough), so I suppose YMMV. I just wonder how many of today's enthusiasts, if given a chance to ride the Crystal Beach Cyclone as much as they wanted to in one day, would do so more than one time. I'm just rambling now, I suppose.

 

-Jason...who asks, Harry Traver: genius or sadist?

[Manic Monte]

Well there is more than one rough spot on Voyage imo. The entire turnaround at the ride's furthest point was on the rough side for me. Also, I made the mistake of riding it with my hands up, which is a serious risk on this ride because of the sudden turns the ride makes.

 

There is "good" rough (Tremors, Rampage, Boulder Dash), and then there is "bad" rough (SOB, Texas Giant, Ghostrider). Voyage clearly falls into the first category, but it's also stretched out over 6,000ft of track. So it's just not going to be a ride everyone can take over and over.

 

For me, I could ride Voyage and Toro all day long, as both offer at different ends of the spectrum, what I like in a coaster.

[Guest]

I can think of 3 coasters at Darien Lake worse than Quantum Loop....two of them being Vekomas and the other being a wood coaster

 

When you were about six (assuming the age attached to your post is correct), Predator was actually a pretty decent ride. My, how times have changed (not the least of which is that I can't believe I'm old enough to be telling someone about the "good old days" ).

 

I suspect my hatred for Quantum Loop is somewhat colored by the cold I was catching when I rode it, combined with cramped trains, a rough ride, and borderline dehydration. I was with it enough to really dig the low-capacity but super-fun Bobsleds, though, so go figure.

 

-Jason, who enjoyed all his visits to Seabreeze (even when QL was still there)

[robbalvey]

There is "good" rough (Tremors, Rampage, Boulder Dash), and then there is "bad" rough (SOB, Texas Giant, Ghostrider).

The sad thing is the Ghostrider never used to be like that! I'm really hoping that the technology of the Intamin woodie proves true and that 10+ years from now it's just as smooth as it is today with little maintanence. I mean, for those of you who have been on both El Toro and Ghostrider, just IMAGINE what Ghostrider would be like it if was re-tracked with the Intamin technology! Is that even possible? Can a woodie be retrofitted?

 

and if that's the case, I wonder would more "traditional" woodie companies like GCI or TGG ever consider that kind of technology?

 

--Robb "I guess there wouldn't be as many re-tracking contracts then!" Alvey

[snuggles]

Imagine voyage with pre-fab track! But that would look weird, and even weirder with intamin trains.

[ginzo]

--Robb "I guess there wouldn't be as many re-tracking contracts then!" Alvey

 

Parks retrack coasters? I thought the running scam was for everyone to not retrack so as to send a consistent message to the GP that "woodies = rough".

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Overall - My top 5 wood now has 3 Intamin Woodies in it.

 

 

While Balder appears to be Phoenix with SFNE SROS airtime, El Toro appears to combine several attributes of Balder and Colossos (much the way Nitro combined attributes of Apollo's Chariot and Raging Bull when it opened in '01).

 

So I guess my question is....El Toro or Colossos?

 

-Mark

[Jew]

^El Toro.

 

Twisty crap at the end with no airtime (El Toro) > Middle section of bunny hills with no airtime (Colossos).

[coasterCrAzY505]

Well I'm VERY ahppy to hear that you guys like El Toro as much as you did! I am riding the voyage myself this summer so i will be able to compare them myself. I guess this really does go to show that the Golden Ticket Awards aren't always right.

 

I also totally agree with the "more airtime hills" and I wonder how they would have worked that into the area!

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Well I'm VERY ahppy to hear that you guys like El Toro as much as you did! I am riding the voyage myself this summer so i will be able to compare them myself. I guess this really does go to show that the Golden Ticket Awards aren't always right.

 

I also totally agree with the "more airtime hills" and I wonder how they would have worked that into the area!

 

Golden Tickets are a heavily rigged poll, as their voter base is somewhat pre-chosen. This isn't anything to take away from the poll itself, as it serves the general amusement industry fine. But really- MF number one steel coaster for how many years? It was perhaps the greatest investment CP ever made- but best steel coaster? Hardly. Most overrated steel coaster- yes, IMO.

 

If you are looking for the purest poll, it's Mitch's wood/steel coaster polls.

 

-Mark

[coasterguy618]

I'm glad you guys really like ET. Just one more question, did you guys get to ride KK and it's horrible roughness?

[Manic Monte]

I did not like "Kinda Krap" very much at all. It's almost a parody of what a roller coaster should be. Big and tall and fast and excessive, but almost entirely forgettable, especially compared with Nitro and El Toro. It stands as a symbol of an era I'm happy is finished.

 

I did like the view from the top, but other than that the ride does nothing for me. It's not even scary.

[coasterCrAzY505]

Well I'm VERY ahppy to hear that you guys like El Toro as much as you did! I am riding the voyage myself this summer so i will be able to compare them myself. I guess this really does go to show that the Golden Ticket Awards aren't always right.

 

I also totally agree with the "more airtime hills" and I wonder how they would have worked that into the area!

 

Golden Tickets are a heavily rigged poll, as their voter base is somewhat pre-chosen. This isn't anything to take away from the poll itself, as it serves the general amusement industry fine. But really- MF number one steel coaster for how many years? It was perhaps the greatest investment CP ever made- but best steel coaster? Hardly. Most overrated steel coaster- yes, IMO.

 

If you are looking for the purest poll, it's Mitch's wood/steel coaster polls.

 

-Mark

Oh yes i knew that already and I totally agree about Mitch's being the most accurate but I believe Voyage outranked ET on that too! I guess it is a really tight race though, and it just depends on who votes and how honest they are.

[robbalvey]

I'm glad you guys really like ET. Just one more question, did you guys get to ride KK and it's horrible roughness?

Not sure if you read the topic title, but this is a thread about Voyage and El Toro, not Kingda Ka. You can ask that question again when we post our SFGadv update.

 

--Robb "Please keep this on topic, thanks!" Alvey

[downunder]

Glad you loved El Toro, I loved it so much I went SFGAdv twice in three days and usually I can't wait to get out of the place. El Toro and Ride of Steel (NE) are the only two coasters I could ride all day and not get sick of.

[peteb]

Intamin's track technology (which is really Werner Stengel's technology; they own the patent and Holzbau Cordes is the company that actually knows how to make the track) could be applied to any wood coaster and I'm sure GG and GCI have thought about it (there are companies in the US and Canada that know how to make laminated beams, it's nothing new) but it's really expensive. . El Toro's price tag is almost double The Voyage. It's possible Holiday World could never afford an Intamin version of The Voyage. And to retrofit and old coaster with new track isn't that simple; the structure has to be re-built to handle the pre fab track and it's precision. The problem with a lot of bad woodies (like SOB) is not just the track, it's the structure supporting it. Look at how many woodies have crooked lift hills, not to mention how the rest of the ride has been twisted up over years of operation.

 

With that said, I'd really like to see someone try a retrofit, especially on a coaster layout that's worth saving.