EL TORO vs. THE VOYAGE

[splzero]

the MCB on voyage doesn't slow it down all that much since the elevation change is a lot higher. but Sat night the mcb was off and it was barreling through the last half.

[easytoremember]

Of the ten times that I have been on voyage, the MCB has never been turned on.

[Manic Monte]

yeah, the brake has never slowed the train much at all. As for El Toro, I know your a home fan and all, but El Toro still sits at #2 which still makes it a GREAT coaster. But for my tastes, Voyage trumps it in almost every way. El Toro is a bit too short and does seem to lose quite a bit a speed heading into the twister section.

 

Voyage just does not stop! And Saturday, it ripped apart every coaster experience I have EVER had.

[jrkstl]

FWIW, the MCB on The Voyage is not used as a trim. Ever. It's only there for emergencies during a three train operation.

[DATman]

Overall all i like Voyage better. its just got so much more then what el toro has. El toro is a 1 trick pony where voyage is an overall wooden coaster.

 

El Toro was not a one trick pony. Top Thrill Dragster is a one trick pony because it is crazy hyped yet all it does is go up and down. Once. Hence the one trick pony. El Toro is airtime packed and has some good G's and a fairly nice twister section. It is anything BUT a one trick pony.

[robbalvey]

if intamin could have a better layout I think I might like the Prefabs better.

Balder!

 

--Robb "Still my #1" Alvey

[Sean Menefee]

I'm looking forward to being able to finally compare the two of these rides, when we leave for our Midwest/East Coast trip in less then two weeks. I got a chance to check out Voyage last June, and it was unlike ANY wood coaster I've ever been on in a great way. Strong forces, crazy laterals, and the triple down is probably my favorite coaster element at this point. The airtime wasn't ejector or anything, but did get better later on in the afternoon. It's a top 5 ride on my list, but I'm sure Toro is going to give Voyage some good competition.

 

--Sean

[Medusa1861]

yeah, the brake has never slowed the train much at all. As for El Toro, I know your a home fan and all, but El Toro still sits at #2 which still makes it a GREAT coaster. But for my tastes, Voyage trumps it in almost every way. El Toro is a bit too short and does seem to lose quite a bit a speed heading into the twister section.

 

Voyage just does not stop! And Saturday, it ripped apart every coaster experience I have EVER had.

I don't really like Great Adventure that much... I'm more of a SFNE or SFA fan if anything. I know i can't say much not being on Voyage, but Voyage is just not for me.

I like my coasters short and sweet, extreme ejector airtime over extreme floater.

So i guess i would agree, for most people, Voyage would most likely be the better choice, just not for me.

 

But like you said, the "loosing speed before it heads into the twister section. That is what makes that hill (i think) the 2nd best hill on El Toro, Because it feels like the ride is over... But then it surprises you with the best ejector airtime on the ride. and IN the twister section, i deffinitely don't feel it goes too slow.

[robbalvey]

I know i can't say much not being on Voyage, but Voyage is just not for me.

I'm just going to point out once again that opinions made by people who haven't been on the ride are pretty a waste of forum bandwidth and I for one ignore them.

 

--Robb

[Manic Monte]

You know, comparing these two rides makes perfect sense, but ultimately I'm not going to fight about it because SO much goes into what makes a coaster #1 for you. And it's not even close to the same for everyone. Most people who visit Holiday World aren't going to ride Voyage in it's prime condition, at night in total darkness.

 

On the other hand, how many people are actually going to get to marathon on El Toro? I was lucky to get two rides on it. So in the end it's about personal preferences. Sometimes we want to try convince everyone that they should love a coaster just because you think it's #1 and people get very defensive. I think that's the silliest, most immature part of this hobby.

[splzero]

I will say even if i like voyage better that doesnt mean i think eltoro sucks. wooden coasters are going to have a hard time beating these two coasters. i rode el toro first and i loved the ride id never been on such a smooth and extreme airtimed coaster with some amazing twisties (most banked wooden ive been on was gwazi at the time). if both these coasters were at the same park id ride both about the same amound depending on if i was in a mood to get crazy airtime or insane beating. both are top knotch coasters and i wish florida would get an intamin, gg, or new gci woodie.

[ParkTrips]

I'd kinda like "prime conditions" to be every ride. I shouldn't have to ride during ERT at midnight with 24 riders over 275 pounds to get a "real" ride on something. I kinda like consistency and from what it sounds like, Voyage has a wide range of performance. I've never had much deviation between rides on, say, El Toro, because they are all amazing.

[Manic Monte]

No you shouldn't. But if "by accident" or by design I do, it does affect my rankings.

 

El Toro blew me away my first ride. Then I had to wait 3 hours to ride it again, and the line was to long to get to it a third time. Now compare that to all night rides on Voyage in pitch blackness. The conditions were not even close.

 

It may sound unfair, but that helped form my opinion. Not to mention Voyage is just MY kind of ride. It's like someone finally designed a coaster just for me! Endless, out of control madness! Certainly not for the faint of heart, but for me, the best coaster ever created. And now I've had two seasons to form that opinion.

[DATman]

If El Toro gives the same rides every day of the year and Voyage doesn't give most people the opportunity to ride it in "prime conditions", then obviously El Toro has a leg up on Voyage because it doesn't require an extra event and a train of ACErs to get an amazing ride out of it.

[Martin]

I'm interested to see what Intamin does with the new pre-fab going into Everland (South Korea) in 2008:

 

http://rcdb.com/id3938.htm

[easytoremember]

I'd kinda like "prime conditions" to be every ride. I shouldn't have to ride during ERT at midnight with 24 riders over 275 pounds to get a "real" ride on something. I kinda like consistency and from what it sounds like, Voyage has a wide range of performance. I've never had much deviation between rides on, say, El Toro, because they are all amazing.

 

I don't understand why people are saying this. I have been on this ride 24 times, and all 24 of the times I have been on it were the best of any ride I have been on.

[Manic Monte]

If El Toro gives the same rides every day of the year and Voyage doesn't give most people the opportunity to ride it in "prime conditions", then obviously El Toro has a leg up on Voyage because it doesn't require an extra event and a train of ACErs to get an amazing ride out of it.

 

And that's also what I like about Voyage over El Toro. I like the unpredictability of Voyage over the more "controlled" El Toro. El Toro does give a predictable ride every time, which is excellent, much like a steel coaster. but if were talking wood, I prefer more of an out of control, manic feeling.

 

Prime conditions or not, it's still about personal tastes, and that can't be converted into fact. I'm just happy that I have actually ridden both, before drawing my conclusion. There are plenty of people that prefer ET, but I'm not one of them.

[Manic Monte]

I'd kinda like "prime conditions" to be every ride. I shouldn't have to ride during ERT at midnight with 24 riders over 275 pounds to get a "real" ride on something. I kinda like consistency and from what it sounds like, Voyage has a wide range of performance. I've never had much deviation between rides on, say, El Toro, because they are all amazing.

 

I don't understand why people are saying this. I have been on this ride 24 times, and all 24 of the times I have been on it were the best of any ride I have been on.

 

Yeah I don't either. And then throwing in insults too, which completely undermines the opinion. Honestly, like Robb says, I can't take anyone's opinion seriously until they've actually ridden the coaster in question.

[robbalvey]

If El Toro gives the same rides every day of the year and Voyage doesn't give most people the opportunity to ride it in "prime conditions", then obviously El Toro has a leg up on Voyage because it doesn't require an extra event and a train of ACErs to get an amazing ride out of it.

 

And that's also what I like about Voyage over El Toro. I like the unpredictability of Voyage

While I respect your opinion, I STRONGLY disagree. And not about Voyage specifically, but I *far* prefer a ride where I know anytime I ride it I'll get amazing rides. The Intamin woodies I've been on (all of them) have proved that morning, noon or night, rain or shine, you are guaranteed that ride will run at it's top performance.

 

It frustrates me to no end to hear about a coaster where people get these "amazing rides", but in order to get them it has to be a specific time, specific date, when the moon is full, the coaster gremlins have tampered with the ride, etc, etc....

 

And this happens quite a bit on traditional woodies. For example, I've *never* had a good ride on Shivering Timbers. Everytime I've been on that ride, I get minimal floater air at best.

 

And as for Voyage, we rode it over two days morning, and through late afternoon, and even in the rain, and we just never got these "amazing, ejector airtime filled" rides that I hear so many other people talk about because they were at a specific event where the ride ran until midnight, etc, etc...

 

Whereas across the park, Raven ran just as awesome at 10am the morning we were there as it did at 4 in the afternoon.

 

If I could take a guaranteed good ride over an "unpredictable" ride, by all means I'll take the guarntee any day of the week!

 

I'm in the camp where, I liked Voyage...a LOT...but I just don't understand the hype. I don't think it lived up, and I certainly don't understand how it became #1. My guess is that a lot of people voted it #1 based on these so called "amazing rides" during an event. But if those same people had only ridden it during normal operating hours, would it still have made that ranking?

 

IMO, if you have to be there at the "magic hour" to get the amazing rides, it can't be a #1 coaster.

 

IMO, A #1 coaster is a ride where you can get the awesome rides any time you visit. And that's a REALLY hard thing to come by, but if you find a ride that can offer it, then it's worthy of that #1 spot.

 

--Robb "We're riding Voyage again in 6 weeks and maybe it WILL impress me more this time around..." Alvey

[Manic Monte]

But here's the thing. In my opinion, Voyage more than holds it's own against El Toro the during the day, then completely blows it away at night. So while Voyage may provide varying rides under normal circumstances, those normal circumstances are still better than any other wooden I've ridden, except El Toro, which I find pretty even. But at night, it knocks every other coaster experience I've had (wood or steel) out of the park.

 

That's why it's my #1, because even so-so rides on it are amazing (when compared to everything else). I know others may disagree, but others have different ways they judge their #1's, and that's great.

 

As for the hype, I could care less about that. If you look at this site, all the hype mostly surrounds El Toro, not Voyage. To me, both coasters completely live up to their hype, but that never means everyone is going to automatically love either. I know people who prefer Nitro to El Toro, and Raven to Voyage, so hype just gets people out to ride them and little else.

 

But as I've said before, both coasters are terrific, and you can't lose with either. Everything after that is just personal taste. And although I too love Raven (it's running SO GREAT this year), it's way too short to rank any higher than #10 on my list. I'm also use to the forces it provides, so there aren't any surprises for me.

 

Which brings me back to where we disagree. One reason I prefer wood to steel, is steel often feels too controlled to me, and once I'm use to it's forces, I'm bored (which is one reason Tatsu doesn't do much for me anymore and I'm not much of a B&M fan). Intamin is much more wild in their designs, so they thrill me for a longer period of time overall, but I just have a thing for the unpredictability of wood coasters, and Voyage takes that and runs off the charts with it. Day or night, Voyage is my #1 coaster.

 

Edit: I should also make one other thing clear, I'm not "that guy". The one that ranks coasters out of loyalty to a particular park, coaster designing company or home park. I just love to ride coasters and have fun. So my opinions of my favorite rides come from the heart, not politics.

[easytoremember]

Thank you!!! That is exactly what I was thinking. I have not been on El Toro, but yes even the "average rides" on Voyage are better than anything I have ever been on.

[robbalvey]

But here's the thing. In my opinion, Voyage more than holds it's own against El Toro the during the day, then completely blows it away at night.

But see, you've just proven my point. Whether you like Voyage more than El Toro or vice versa isn't what I was getting at, that's down to personal opinion, which isn't what I was discussing.

 

My point was that a ride that only performs in it's top caliber, like you said "at night" just can't be, IMO, a #1 coaster, because it's inconsistent.

 

Now YOU might think that during the day it's still your #1, but you even admit that it's a much better ride at night.

 

What I'm saying is that not everyone is going to be able to experience those "blows it away" rides, like myself for example, who hasn't been to any events, and who hasn't ridden it at night. And if some people, not you, but others, are basing their ranking on rides which you can ONLY get at night, well, it's not really a fair representation of the ride is it?

 

When I do my Mitch Hawker and Amusement Today rankings I base my #1 ranking on rides that give consistent rides no matter when you ride them, and that's VERY important to me. A #1 coaster should blow you away at 10 o'clock in the morning. You shouldn't have to wait until the moon and vampires come out.

 

--Robb "I feel like I'm not quite making my point clear..." Alvey

[Manic Monte]

No, I get what your saying. I absolutely think Voyage is a better night ride than day ride. How could it not be? Those tunnels are completely black at night, in the front row you can't see more than 2 feet in front of you and no matter how much you've memorized the layout during the day, you don't know where the heck you are at night. It's a completely new ball game.

 

I admit it! Voyage is better at night. But the scary thing is, even during the day, it knocks the socks off of 99 percent of other coasters I've ridden, that 1 percent belonging to none other than El Toro. But that's just MY opinion. I'm not really trying to convince anyone else.

 

Quite frankly, up until Holiwood nights, I had both coasters pretty equal. I felt both coasters had BIG strengths and minor weaknesses, but both were miles better than anything I'd ever ridden. But after the event I couldn't help but be honest. I liked Voyage better, and not just by a little bit.

 

 

 

And just to clarify, both coaster blew me away the first time I rode them, which by the way, were morning rides. I've had a full year and several rides on both, to come to this conclusion. I'll be riding El Toro again in August. I can't wait!

[willski]

My point was that a ride that only performs in it's top caliber, like you said "at night" just can't be, IMO, a #1 coaster, because it's inconsistent.

 

 

That's how it is with traditional wooden roller coasters (by that I mean not plug-n-play). They speed up as the day goes on and for a variety of other reasons. Now, you may say that you want consistency, but it is simply not possible with traditional designs. This is why I agree with Real that Plug-n-Play woodies are not so much a traditional wooden coaster, but rather a steel coaster designed in wood.

 

Think about it:

 

Prefab:

-Laser-cut, layered wood (cut by a computer/robot)

-Poly-u or related derivative running wheels

-Heartlined track

-Cannot be easily modified or retracked-requires computer-cut sections for retracking.

 

All of those characteristics are the same as an Intamin steel coaster, with the single exception being that the medium is wood and not steel. Due to this design, track requires minimal maintenance (no grease, no retracking), essentially providing wooden coaster looks with the ease of maintenance and smooth ride of a steel coaster.

 

 

On the other hand...

 

Traditional:

-Track assembled from raw lumber on support structure by specialized workers

-Track not heartlined (for the most part and certainly not as well as plug-n-play if heartlined)

-Steel running wheels on a steel track

 

 

The traditional coaster is more likely to be affected by weather, temperature, etc., because it operates with steel wheels on steel track. The coefficient of friction between the wheels and track is affected by temperature, weather, and viscosity of track lubricant (which is also affected by temp. and weather). Because of the multiple factors, large variations in ride performance will occur on a traditional wooden roller coaster, especially one on such a large scale as Voyage.

 

Even the slightest change in temperature of the lubricants throughout the wheel/track system could cause a significant shift in ride speed, especially considering the length of Voyage. Just from riding it 30 times a week ago, I could tell a big difference between morning and late afternoon/evening rides, as they became faster and faster.

 

 

To be honest, if you want consistency, don't ride a traditional wooden roller coaster-especially a longer/taller one with a greater room for deviations.

[robbalvey]

My point was that a ride that only performs in it's top caliber, like you said "at night" just can't be, IMO, a #1 coaster, because it's inconsistent.

That's how it is with traditional wooden roller coasters (by that I mean not plug-n-play). They speed up as the day goes on and for a variety of other reasons.

Right. I am totally well aware of that...I guess what I'm saying is that for a coaster in that #1 ranking, you should be able to get a #1 ride on a regular basis. I understand that coasters have "bad days" but consistently you should be able to go to a park on any given day, ride it during the normal operating hours and be blown away.

 

Honestly, what it comes down to, I wasn't blown away by Voyage. I still prefer Raven on the other side of the park.

 

And the reason why I bring it up, is I'd say 99% of the time when I tell people "I wasn't blown away by Voyage" the response is always "Did you ride it at night?" and my response is always "I shouldn't HAVE to ride it at night." and then there is usally a blank stare....and then I hear "Well, if you didn't ride it at night you didn't ride the Voyage."

 

And then usually I just walk away!

 

For example, back in the "good days" of GhostRider, that ride would KICK ASS at 10am. And yeah, it would get better as the day goes on, but OMG, even early morning rides were awesome. You didn't NEED to be there at 9:59pm to get that magically "awesome ride." You got it as soon as the park opened.

 

And THAT is what I'm talking about. And again, this actually has NOTHING to do with "pre-fab" woodies versus traditional woodies. It has to do with my point of a #1 woodie should be a ride you can get a #1 ride on at just about ANY time. Pre-fab, traditional, bamboo, whatever!

 

--Robb "I would give ANYTHING for GhostRiders track to be replaced with Intamin pre-fab wood. Just imagine how freaking AWESOME that would be!" Alvey