EL TORO vs. THE VOYAGE

[imbordisux]

Well, this is it. The biggest coaster feud since Millenium Force vs. SROS (SFNE) . Arguably the two baddest, meanest, most intense woodies on the planet, and the two most hyped rides of 2006. Retro Extreme vs. Completely New-School.

 

Let's start with the tale of the tape:

 

Category: El Toro --- The Voyage

Height: 181' --- 163'

Speed: 70mph --- 67mph

Drop Length: 176' --- 174'

Drop Degree: 76* --- 66*

Track Length: 4400' --- 6442'

Ride Time: 1:42 --- 2:45

Manufacturer: Intamin --- The Gravity Group

Location: "SF: Great Adventure", New Jersey --- "Holiday World", Indiana

 

So to start off, El Toro is taller, faster, and features a taller and steeper drop, but The Voyage is much longer, with over a minute more of ride time, and is in what most consider a much better park.

 

So what does all that mean? Well, not much, but who doesn't love comparing stats? Numbers are fun.

 

I’ll start off with El Toro, which we FINALLY rode on 8/5/06, and is thus fresher in my mind. A combination of back-problems, insanely hot weather, and busy weekends have kept us from riding this behemoth for two months, but it was Monica’s birthday the week before, and we didn’t get to celebrate, so we found our excuse to go. Now, I don’t think it’s fair to let the way a park is run influence my opinion as a ride; I mean, it’s not El Toro’s fault that it took forever to open, but I will mention that we were the FIRST people on line at 10am, and the ride didn’t open until three in the afternoon! But hey, we were first, and we weren’t gonna give up our spot for anything. We did have fun on line, though, we were talking to everyone around us, and letting the ride-ops know how much we sympathize with them over all the abusive customers who give the “I paid my money!” spiel. Yeah, you paid your money, does that mean they should let you on an unsafe ride?

 

Anyway, as for the ride… let me first say that I was not expecting to like this ride much. I know, I know, but I generally don’t like “Intamin”, I find SFNE’s Superman: Ride of Steel pretty over-rated, and just generally don’t find their coasters all that exciting. The promise of a “glass smooth” ride was also a concern of mine - I was kinda picturing a GCI-style ride, which isn’t my taste; I like them, but I’m not crazy about their rides, they’re generally too gentle, when I think “woodie”, I think of a ride that should beat the crap out of you. That’s me, that’s my preference, I want a woodie to leave big welts on my stomach and thighs; I know some people hate that, but I love it.

 

All that said, this completely blew my expectations away. Not just that it was “good”, it was an absolutely phenomenal ride. I’m a big believer that steel coasters should be smooth while wood coasters should be rough, but it’s the baby-bottom smoothness that allows this coaster to provide the insane floater air that it’s becoming known for. And, yes, I know most people will argue that this should be categorized as “ejector air”, since you spend so much time out of your seat, but I’ll still argue that it’s not the amount of time you spend out of your seat, but the amount of force with which you are propelled out of the seat that should be the determining factor in the great “floater/ejector” argument. Regardless, this thing is air-central as it pertains to how long your ass is actually up out of the seat before coming back down. You build-up so much momentum on your way up the hills that you’re pretty much out of it from the time you hit the apex until you reach the valley. If you like B&M or Intamin hypers, this thing is the steroid-shooting big-brother to all of them – you’re literally floating on air through the entire first half. And the rapidly-becoming infamous “Rolling Thunder” hill? Believe the hype, that one hill is THE single greatest moment of air-time ever. This might sound like an exaggeration, but it really does feel more like a 1st-generation Intamin free-fall than a coaster; the train just seems to disappear from under you, it’s like in the cartoons when the character doesn’t realize they’ve just walked off a cliff, only to look down and plummet.

 

All those good things aside, though, I do have two problems with the ride. One, the “twister” portion, to me, was very weak; three turns is hardly enough to be called a “twister”, and they’re so inclined that you don’t actually feel any laterals. Secondly, it’s far too short; it reminds me of Storm Runner in that regard, that what IS there is awesome, but there’s that feeling that there was plenty of room (and momentum from the train) to keep going.

 

As a whole, though, it’s a phenomenal ride, and a definite winner for SFGAdv; many in the GP don’t like wooden coasters, don’t like anything rough at all, and SFGAdv deserves credit for allowing Intamin to bring this awesome design to the US. It’s not my cup of tea, but there’s no question that the crowd absolutely loves it.

 

[As a side-tangent, I want to just chime in on the “El Toro is not really a wooden coaster” debate. While I firmly believe that it should be treated like any other woodie, after riding it, I can definitely see where some people are coming from. Yes, it’s made entirely of wood, but there’s really no denying that it WAS designed to feel more like a steel hyper than a traditional wooden coaster, in the sense that the idea is that you build up a lot of momentum going up a hill, with the inertia being what tossed you out. I think it comes down to the fact that, while it’s wood, the track itself is pre-formed, unlike other wood coasters but just like steelies. I don’t completely buy it, but there is definitely an argument to be made.]

 

///

 

The Voyage. What can I say about this coaster that hasn’t already been said? This is the exact opposite of El Toro, this is a down-right nasty coaster, it lives to engage in “rough fun”. If El Toro is a dad holding his son over his head and pretending the kid is Superman, The Voyage is the cast of MTV’s “Jackass” having fun by beating the ever-loving crap out of each other.

 

And I wouldn’t want it any other way.

 

The only coaster I can really compare this to is Coney Island’s Cyclone, and if you’ve never ridden THAT, just sit there and yell out a bunch of curses with “oww” thrown in a bunch of times; that’s what riders on Cyclone sound like.

 

I think I’ve finally found the perfect way to describe this ride: you know when you’re driving really fast, and your car begins to violently vibrate? That’s what this feels like, except someone else is controlling the gas. It’s like being tied by the waist to a runaway train, it’s going, and you’re stuck to it. Unlike the sustained-yet-gentle air of El Toro, this is the world Jack-hammering champion of roller-coasters, it tosses you, it throws you, it HURLS you out of your seat, like a wild bull, your upper- and lower-body are NOT going in the same directions, and your brain just canNOT comprehend everything that’s going on. It’s the wildest, most insane ride ever, there is nothing “smooth” or “flowing” about this ride, you can’t recall any specific “elements” like you can on other coasters, you can’t say “Oh, well, first was this hill, then a turn, then a double-down”, no, this is just a mile (plus) of ever-changing track, it does not go straight at any time, just left, right, up, down, left, down, right, up, a little left, a lot right, leftdownupright, all in the span of a few moments. Think of the most uneven road you’ve ever seen, and imagine speeding down it while hanging out the window. That, my friends, is The Voyage. It’s the equivalent of shaking a stuffed-animal back and forth as fast as you can, with you in the role of the animal. When you talk about a coaster making you feel like you have no idea what’s coming next, that’s what this does best.

 

It is, quite simply, the greatest coaster I’ve ever ridden, by the absolute largest margin you can imagine; if “#1” is up by my head, “#2” is down by my knees. This thing kicks so many forms of ass, I can’t even list them, but it is just the most incredible blur of a coaster-memory I’ve ever had.

 

And I know that maybe my opinion doesn’t count for much, sure, I haven’t ridden 1000 different coasters, but I’m also not a credit-whore; I’m not gonna ride 500 kiddie-coasters and boomerangs to up my “count”, I go for the big stuff, and that’s what this is: King of the Big Stuff.

 

///

 

So which is better? Well, that depends on your taste. If you prefer smoother coasters with gentle “floater” air, then El Toro is for you. If you prefer a rough-neck rib-cracker, go with The Voyage. Honestly, both coasters are awesome, try them both. For what it’s worth Monica’s new favorite coaster is El Toro, so our household is tied 1-1.

 

One things for sure, though – 2006 is the year that wood finally got to dominate once again.

[TheArchfiend]

As Yoda would say: Your analysis deep, it runs.

[robbalvey]

I can't speak for Voyage vs. El Toro, but I can speak for Intamin Woodies versus traditional woodies, and I would take the smoothness and consistency of the Intamin ride ANY DAY over your typical woodie.

 

There's just something about it that I really like. Not that I don't like traditional woodies, but there's nothing more dissapointing to me riding a woodie that was once good (GhostRider, for example) to come back to something that is rough and uncomfortable.

 

--Robb

[ParkTrips]

El Toro with floater air yet Voyage has the violent air? WTF?

 

Sorry dude, but I would put it the other way. El Toro had stronger, more forceful air BY FAR than Voyage, I don't know if I ever really slammed into the lapbar on Voyage, whereas El Toro gave me probably 15 seconds of a firm pin to the lapbar, almost wondering if it would give.

 

Nice, in-depth analysis that seems misguided IMO.

[KK-N-Mrc00l]

Are you crazy?! El Toro - gentle floater air?!? What the hell do you consider ejector air then???

 

You didn't sit in the very last row, did you? Back is insane ejector. Middle is floater. Front is kinda in the middle.

[DATman]

The back on El Toro was amazing! I personally thought the first drop and hill to be better than the Rolling Thunder hill, and the turns had plenty of forces in the back (Rode it 3 days ago). Too bad it takes them 4-10 minutes to load a train (depending on how many people don't fit). Not to mention only two ops checking a train with a total of 18 rows and a bunch of people who can't understand the concept of a test seat. They really need someone at the front of the line asking people to try the seat out. It would cut the wait by so much.

 

I can't compare the two, as I haven't been on Voyage, but I'm sure that it runs better.

[robbalvey]

While I would say that Voyage had some really good to strong floater air, we never got what I would consider ejector air on Voyage. I'm told that the people who attended Holiwood Nights got more airtime than what we found during our visit, and while I can't speak for El Toro I know that both Balder and Colossos deliver the exact same type and amount of air (massive ejector air) no matter what time of the day you visit.

 

While it's great that Voyage might be capable of that, it does lose a slight point in my book for having to be there "at the right time" to get those perfect rides.

 

--Robb

[HCOSurfer90]

El Toro = Floater air??? Yeah...riiiiigt . El Toro has the most violent sustained ejector air I have felt on a coaster. It's #1 coaster overall and I really dont think it can be beat.

 

Maybe we should turn this into a pole?

[imbordisux]

And, yes, I know most people will argue that this should be categorized as “ejector air”, since you spend so much time out of your seat, but I’ll still argue that it’s not the amount of time you spend out of your seat, but the amount of force with which you are propelled out of the seat that should be the determining factor in the great “floater/ejector” argument.

 

And, yes, we rode the back row of El Toro - I spent a LOT of time pinned to the lap-bar, but I rose into it gently and landed back in the seat gently. On The Voyage, I was thrown violently into the lap-bar, and then jack-hammered back down into the seat.

 

El Toro was an incredible floating - almost flying - sensation, where I spent several consecutive seconds out of my seat, whereas The Voyage was more like driving down the highway and slamming on the brakes repeatedly, with by body jerking back and forth very quickly.

[N'at Man]

I keep seeing people using the word "violent" for El Toro. I think "extreme" may be a better word to describe the airtime. When I think of violent airtime I think of GA Cyclone or Riverside Cyclone because the experience can be painful.

 

On to Robb's comments, surely people at Holiwood nights had more airtime on the Voyage than those at the morning media day did. But I think speed is the biggest factor for Voyage because it is not really about ejector airtime. When the speed picks up on Voyage it starts doing so many things better all at the same time. You have air, laterals, visuals, speed, acceleration and an all around out of control feeling. Ejector airtime may be my favorite single element (Intamin wins here) but the package the Voyage delivers has become my favorite "thing" that a coaster does.

 

On the Voyage scale, I'd say I got two 10.5 rating rides at Holiwood Nights in the dark. Off the normal Voyage charts. I was at HW a few weeks back and I had one solid 10 ride with the rest ranging from 9.5 to no less than an 8 even at 1 PM. Since I rode the Voyage pretty much all day I was able to come up with such precise, geeked out ratings.

 

Based on what I know about the rainy, early media day I'd be surprised if you got much over a 6 ride. It sounded like the wrong time rather than not picking the right time. My worst ride on the Voyage was the first time I rode it and it was a total dud, probably a 4 ride as far as enjoyment. 15 mintues later the ride was up to a 7 on my scale. I think that any Voyage ride at 7 or above is completely enjoyable and I'd say on average it probably runs at an 8 most of the time.

 

I had issues with Balder being very slow in the morning. It consistently warmed up over the day and by 11:45 PM the night we rode it (two years ago) it was running in top 5 form and gave us the type of rides we had hoped for. Colossos and El Toro seem a bit better early as that don't need to warm up as much throughout the day. But overall I do rank Balder higher since it does surpass the other two Intamins with the number of outstanding moments once it reaches its full potential.

[Homey G.]

I'm not but one man, but there is absolutely nothing but SFNE RoS 4th hill quality airtime on El Toro. That's the definition of ejector airtime my friend. The hill into the infield of RT is the most insane airtime hill on any coaster, and you're reading the post of a guy who's favorite wooden coaster for years on end was the Georgia Cyclone.

 

El Toro has many moments that surpass Voyage intensity-wise. Those moments are the opening sequence airtime hills and the twisty track after the aforementioned hill into the infield. I prefer those over the first 3 camelbacks on Voyage, but while El Toro peters out after the sidewinder turns and coasts back to the brakes, Voyage gets MORE furious as the ride progresses.

 

You're talking 1-2 favorite wooden coasters in my book and I fully believe you can't go wrong with either one as your favorite, but there's no question in most peoples mind that I've spoken with is that El Toro is a bookend coaster compared to Voyages feverish trek through the woods that NEVER lets up.

 

One final point. I can't shake the notion that El Toro truly FEELS like a steel coaster, and while nobody likes their head bashed in by wooden nightmares, nothing about this feels like a wooden coaster. The rolling stock themselves hardly feel like a trailered wooden coaster train. Close your eyes on El Toro and you could easily be on any Intamin steel hyper masterpiece. Voyage is a wooden masterpiece.

[robbalvey]

I disagree about the Intamin's feeling like a steel coaster (although I haven't been on El Toro yet), IMO they feel like a really smooth wood coaster, much like Kennywood's Jack Rabbit. They don't feel "steel" at all to me. Maybe I've just been on too many rough-as-hell woodies lately to realize I'd much rather have a better shot at NOT getting my head bashed in by having all the wood coaster track in the world replaced by the Intamin woodie system! Think about it, it would make probably more than 50% of the world's woodies rideable and AWESOME again!!! Think about how INSANE your GA Cyclone would be with that system!

 

I had issues with Balder being very slow in the morning. It consistently warmed up over the day and by 11:45 PM the night we rode it (two years ago) it was running in top 5 form and gave us the type of rides we had hoped for. Colossos and El Toro seem a bit better early as that don't need to warm up as much throughout the day. But overall I do rank Balder higher since it does surpass the other two Intamins with the number of outstanding moments once it reaches its full potential.

That's interesting that you would notice that, because I don't think any of us noticed much difference at all between morning, noon, and night rides on either of the Intamin woodies. IMO, they both seemed EXACTLY the same no matter when we ride them.

 

Admittidly, I'm probably not as "geeked out" (using your term!) about wood coasters and other than our 3 hours of ERT on Balder, I rarely ride any coaster more then 3 or 4 times during one visit (hell even two rides on one coaster in a day is a lot for me!), but all I know is the rides we took at 10am on Balder seemed pretty much the same as the rides we took at 9pm. We were on the very first train of the day at 10am and we were being ejected out of our seats!

 

Now, having said that, I also didn't notice much of a difference on Voyage from our 10am rides to our 4pm rides, but again, that might just be me not being quite as into it as other people are to notice. I mean, I personally thought our Raven rides we took at 2pm in the afternoon were just as awesome as any night rides we've had on it.

 

My comment about having to ride certain coasters "at the right time" came from a comment I made during our Balder ERT where I said I wished Voyage delivered this kind of airtime, and someone said "Oh, it does, you just have to be there at the right time" and my response was "but Balder delivers this no matter what time you ride!"

 

Don't get me wrong, Voyage is still in my "top ten" and I thought it was a GREAT ride, it just didn't quite blow me away as much as all the hype told me it would (and we rode about 3 weeks after media day over two different days).

 

--Robb "IMO a number 1 coaster is one that you can get a number 1 ride on during just about any visit at any time." Alvey

[DerekRx]

Agreed, as much as both coasters (El Toro and Voyage) are incredible, and my Holiwood Nights ERT rides on Voyage were some amazing moments (and probably one of the greatest coaster experiences) I shouldn't have to ride a coaster at night, or right after it rains, or during a solar eclipse on the summer solstice to have a great ride. I still prefer Voyage to El Toro, but that's in part due to the problems with the ride as well as the duller finish on Toro. Still, my 10:30am rides on Balder were more fun and just as much airtime as on Voyage up until the night time ERTs. And that is what matters most to me in my rankings.

 

I'm just so content knowing that there are really amazing wood coasters coming out again, and I'd never had thought I'd have 3 new top 5 woodies all within a month of each other!

[DCs221]

I read a trip report on this site I think, where they said Balder was a full 15 seconds faster at night vs. the morning, which is a huge difference. I noticed a difference in speeds on El Toro between 12 and 3:30... both onride and offride. Offride, you can hear the difference in the first two hills... the upstop sound was sustained longer, and was louder than my first ride. The ending sequence of S curve hills was more out of control than the first ride too, though I still think the ride needs a much better final 5-7 seconds. Haven't been on it in the evening, but I heard it's even more extreme. With that said, morning rides still have absolutely insane and sustained airtime, still with quality easily rivalling SROS SFNE's best hills.

 

I'm not sure where the guy who made the first post rode, but I don't see how he could describe the air as floater. You can hear the upstops riding the track, and you can compare that to the sounds when there really is floater air, like when entering the first turnaround, on that drop (I'd guess middle rows have perfect floater, as the back has some slight, but very sustained, ejector). You can hear the train bounce between the road and upstop wheels very slightly there, though it's not really noticeable onride... just seems like good floater. That's in stark contrast to the sounds we've all heard on the Balder and Colossos videos here.

 

But yeah, unlike most other Intamins I've been on, I think back row is definately the best spot on the ride. It's so amazingly intense back there. I love how the transitions between the hill pullovers and pullouts is so small...many times riders in the back half of the train have trouble sitting upright through the entire pullout, myself included. That occurs at the bottom of the first, second, and third drops, base of the turnaround, bottom of the drop over RT, and somewhat in the turns in the twister section.

 

In contrast to the initial poster, I also found the twister section to have strong and very dynamic lats anywhere on the train, front or back. With my hands up I had to fight to not smack my riding partner upside their head lol. The most banked parts don't have a ton of lats, but it's the transitions where you can really feel it. I also find good lats in the beginning of the first turnaround, and it's very cool how the lats transition to heavy positives while nearing the bottom.

[easytoremember]

Think about how INSANE your GA Cyclone would be with that system!

I hate to disagree with robb, but I would cringe at the thought of having a extra smooth GA Cyclone. I think one of the best parts of the ride is its roughness. The airtime combined with the kick the crap out of you roughness makes it a great ride.

 

John "I guess I just like my woodies like that" H.

[ParkTrips]

I hate to disagree with robb, but I would cringe at the thought of having a extra smooth GA Cyclone.

Youre Cyclone would have a longer life with the Intamin system...

[imbordisux]

I know that MY definitions of "floater" and "ejector" are not the accepted norm, but I'll try to describe it:

 

- If you spend three seconds pinned to the lap-bar, that's floater. You are literally "floating" above the seat.

 

- If you get THROWN into the lap-bar several times over three seconds, that's ejector. You are being "ejected" out of the seat over and over.

 

I disagree about the Intamin's feeling like a steel coaster (although I haven't been on El Toro yet), IMO they feel like a really smooth wood coaster, much like Kennywood's Jack Rabbit. They don't feel "steel" at all to me.

 

I haven't ridden either of the other two Intamin "Plug 'n Plays", so I can't vouch for other attempts with this technology or design, but, IMO, El Toro really DOES feel smoother than Nitro or SROS.

[ParkTrips]

The only reason you stay pinned against the lapbar is because you can't go any further. I mean, at one point in the sequence, the rider is still CATAPULTED into the bar.

[robbalvey]

I hate to disagree with robb, but I would cringe at the thought of having a extra smooth GA Cyclone. I think one of the best parts of the ride is its roughness. The airtime combined with the kick the crap out of you roughness makes it a great ride.

 

John "I guess I just like my woodies like that" H.

 

That's one thing I'll just never be able to understand is how people prefer a rough ride. Different strokes, obviously, which is fine. Some people like nipple clamps and peirced scrotums too!!!!

 

Personally I prefer something that I can ride over and over again, doesn't beat me up, and has amazing forces. But that's just me. I guess I'm insane for wanting a really kick ass smooth ride!

 

I haven't ridden either of the other two Intamin "Plug 'n Plays", so I can't vouch for other attempts with this technology or design, but, IMO, El Toro really DOES feel smoother than Nitro or SROS.

Well, I'd buy that since those two coasters are now quite a few years old and last time I rode SROS it was getting that "Intamin rattle."

 

I'd say Jack Rabbit is also smoother than SROS! So was Aska, Viper, and several other woodies I've been on.

 

--Robb "I still claim that the Intamin woodies FEEL like woodies, just very smooth ones!" Alvey

[N'at Man]

Agreed, as much as both coasters (El Toro and Voyage) are incredible, and my Holiwood Nights ERT rides on Voyage were some amazing moments (and probably one of the greatest coaster experiences) I shouldn't have to ride a coaster at night, or right after it rains, or during a solar eclipse on the summer solstice to have a great ride. I still prefer Voyage to El Toro, but that's in part due to the problems with the ride as well as the duller finish on Toro. Still, my 10:30am rides on Balder were more fun and just as much airtime as on Voyage up until the night time ERTs. And that is what matters most to me in my rankings.

 

In my opinion the Voyage delivers a ride I can get really excited about at 1 PM in the afternoon. It runs well enough to be my #1 at that time of day. It just happens to keep getting better (and more addictive) as the day moves on. Plenty of rides are only good at night but the Voyage is worthwhile pretty much all day (I haven't ridden it earlier than 1 PM) and the fact that it keeps getting better is just a bonus. So my point is that I don't believe that the stars have to be aligned for the Voyage but the speed the Voyage picks up at night and just having the darkness in the woods makes for a more impressive experience. If Balder was in a forest with no lights then I think most people would cherish the night rides more than daytime rides even if it ran at the same speed all day long.

[roasted_marshmallow]

I haven't been on El Toro, (Or any Intamin woodie for that matter I think,) but the reason I like The Voyage is because it's intense all the way through.

[DCs221]

I agree that El Toro is indeed smoother than Nitro, atleast if you compare the back rows of each... the fronts are also comparable.

 

With rides like SROS, it also really depends on where you sit...there's a very noticeable difference in smoothness between the front and back rows of that ride. I remember last year when they recently put the red train on SROS SFA for the first time in the season, it was running very fast, and the front row was as smooth as a B&M hyper, other than shuffling exiting the second helix... the shuffling is usually distributed throughout more of the ride. However, in the back rows, and throughout the blue train, shuffling and shaking was more apparent.

 

Back row of El Toro is just buttery smooth. No shaking at all, to the point where you could feel the seams inbetween track segments at one point in the track (where you weren't bombarded with heavy g's or crazy airtime). I noticed that on Titan when I went this summer, and I'm sure that's one of the smoothest rides in the world.

 

I don't understand imbordisux's definition of airtime types. It seems simple enough to me... ejector airtime is where the rider experiences airtime with a magnitude greater than 0, thus pushing them against the lapbar, and floater air is where the g's hover around 0. I think what he's trying to describe is not the magnitude of the force, but the quickness of it's onset, or the jerk. That's much of what makes the hill over RT seem more forceful than the first two hills, when in reality I'm sure the difference between them is less significant than people say. There is a very tiny leadin there, which increases the magnitude of negatives more quickly than the first few hills, meaning riders hit the lapbar harder, but not necessarily that they experience higher forces. I've spoken to Real about that, and he says some of Voyage's thrill is in the small transitions between pullout and pullover, making the jerk value relatively high compared to rides with longer leadins/outs.

 

Personally, one of the things I don't like about wooden coasters is how many have airtime that's segmented because of roughness causing the rider to bounce around in the seat, which makes it harder to enjoy the airtime IMO. If I get floater airtime, I want to float between the seat and restraint instead of bouncing up and down. Same thing applies with ejector airtime. Ofcourse, one spot where the ride just gives a pop of ejector can be very exciting and surprising, I just wouldn't want the entire ride to be made of pops of air or sharp bounces over hills.

[DATman]

I haven't ridden either of the other two Intamin "Plug 'n Plays", so I can't vouch for other attempts with this technology or design, but, IMO, El Toro really DOES feel smoother than Nitro or SROS.

 

I should hope it is smoother, as it is 5 years older than Nitro and 6 years older than SROS.

 

El Toro didn't feel like a steel coaster to me at all. It still shook a bit (not as much as, say, SoB, but still enough). In fact, I expected it to feel a bit smoother than it was. Not by too much, but by a little. It didn't feel like a steel coaster to me, and, if we're using the Nitro comparison, I had ridden that only 2 hours before El Toro, both the third row from the back.

[Calvin]

Quick question, what is this "infamous Rolling Thunder" hill I keep hearing about?

[DCs221]

El Toro's track curves to the left just over the first drop, then pulls up into one of the most intense hills ever... very tight radius over the top, small leadin, steep drop on the other side, and yet still good speed over the top make for an awesome moment. Here it is here http://rcdb.com/ig3183.htm?picture=48

 

The reason people refer to it as such is because it hops over the middle of Rolling Thunder's first drop...it's actually only around 15 feet shorter than RT, and this is most of the way through El Toro's layout.

 

More pictures

 

http://rcdb.com/ig3183.htm?picture=41

http://gadv.com/06Construction/52806/1.jpg

http://gadv.com/06Construction/52806/5.jpg