simaticable Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I'd gladly ride those slides with only my clothes on. Looks like a great addition to a water park that needs it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCjunkie Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Canada got a hyper, a giga, and is heavily rumored to get something big next year. Everything after 2007. Wish our park had better luck. Don't forget Carowinds getting a Hyper and Giga since 2007 along with CP getting Gatekeeper and a remodeled Rougarou. As a VF fan I am only asking for one new coaster during that time for the park. VF is due, CP needs to build a new coaster in the next 2-3 years at VF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasterguy21 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Valleyfair will get something new coaster wise soon. Its inevitable. However, comparing the amount of coasters Canada's Wonderland and Carowinds gets is an entirely different story. Canada's Wonderland is the most visited regional/seasonal amusement park in North America and is in a huge market area just outside of Toronto. Investment will continue to be heavy there. Carowinds is located near a Top 25 city and an extremely large market as well. In addition, the new regional headquarters will be there. Both markets considerably larger than the Twin Cities markets. The bigger the market and the more attendance, the better chances you have at frequent additions. This isn't to say anything won't come in the future. I believe Cedar Fair is allocating about $120 million a year for capital expenditures chain wide (if I remember the figure correctly from a previous conference call. I'll have to double check). Assuming Cedar Point gets that Dive Coaster, Carowinds gets the water park expansion and Michigan's Adventure gets that "major capital" that was teased in the papers (which could only amount to $10 million really, if it is indeed the largest in park history). Then there is STILL a lot of money left for investing into Valleyfair (depending on what CW actually gets). Valleyfair will grow well into the future and I think this year's addition is pretty swell. The future is exciting as always (and this goes for the entire chain). Don't worry, your days of thankfulness for a new coaster will be approaching soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyman6 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Actually Valleyfairs market is quite similar to both CW and Carowinds. All three markets draw from a base of about 9 million. CW is like the Disneyland of Canada which explains its popularity. The twin cities are Charlotte metro areas are very similar in size. Carowinds has us beat when it comes to weather but that doesn't stop Cedar Point. My point is that i believe Cedar Fair knows there is a lot of growth potential with Valleyfair and i think we are seeing the ground work being done to support that. I agree that i think Valleyfair has a lot in store for us in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyowl1028 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 ^ If that is true that we have the same population as Carowinds then why is Cedar Fair just noticing this now? Fury325 could have been ours. We may have bright things in the future, but if we don't get something good in 2016 I am going to flip out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossed Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 ^ If that is true that we have the same population as Carowinds then why is Cedar Fair just noticing this now? Fury325 could have been ours. We may have bright things in the future, but if we don't get something good in 2016 I am going to flip out. Should we be worried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 ^ If that is true that we have the same population as Carowinds then why is Cedar Fair just noticing this now? Fury325 could have been ours. We may have bright things in the future, but if we don't get something good in 2016 I am going to flip out. Valleyfair never would have gotten Fury 325 because with the park's current attendance rates, it would take too long for the park to get a return on investment. Also, I personally think that a new coaster is coming in 2017 or 2018 rather than 2016 because most of the rumors of a 2016 VF coaster have just been enthusiast optimism and nothing really legitimate. Plus, the park could use some more time to make more general improvements before making a big addition, though I could be wrong and 2016 might be our year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 The Twin Cities CSA has a million more people than the Charlotte CSA. Population is not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossed Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Plus, the park could use some more time to make more general improvements before making a big addition, though I could be wrong and 2016 might be our year. The park has been making general improvements for the last 9 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Password121 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 but if we don't get something good in 2016 I am going to flip out. Seriously you sound like such an entitled enthusiast. I don't even want to counter your points because I see no purpose. Just chill and remember that CF corporate knows infinitely more about Valleyfair and the amusement industry than an enthusiast on a forum does. Edit: wait... I'm not even clear on your position on this Plus, the park could use some more time to make more general improvements before making a big addition, though I could be wrong and 2016 might be our year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 You can have mixed feelings about your park. You want what you want but you also want what is best, and they don't always line up. So you hope that either option is taken rather than none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyowl1028 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Someone messed up with the quotes. Things are being quoted that I did not say, but it says it is me. Let me make this clear: I would like to see a coaster in 2016 come to Valleyfair. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Password121 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 ^Gotcha. I see the error looking back now. Wouldn't we all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Edit: wait... I'm not even clear on your position on thisPlus, the park could use some more time to make more general improvements before making a big addition, though I could be wrong and 2016 might be our year. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. With the current state the park is in now, I'm not completely sure it is ready for a new coaster just yet. Some facets of the park are rather outdated, and they need to have the place looking good to keep the crowds that a new coaster would bring coming back in the future. They could use a new/bigger entrance plaza, some revitalized areas (walkway to Route 76, back of park, etc.), a bigger parking lot (which could already be in the works from what we've seen), and maybe another sitdown restaurant among other things, but that's just my take on it. The park officials know what's really best for VF and will do what they see necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytterbiumanalyst Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Plus, the park could use some more time to make more general improvements before making a big addition, though I could be wrong and 2016 might be our year. The park has been making general improvements for the last 9 years. Let's put things in perspective. We in the Ozarks went 9 years between Powder Keg and Outlaw Run. Both are awesome. Quality over quantity. And enjoy those new kick-ass water slides. We wanted to come this year, but we'll be there next year. You're getting some great new attractions, and that's something to celebrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyowl1028 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. With the current state the park is in now, I'm not completely sure it is ready for a new coaster just yet. Some facets of the park are rather outdated, and they need to have the place looking good to keep the crowds that a new coaster would bring coming back in the future. They could use a new/bigger entrance plaza, some revitalized areas (walkway to Route 76, back of park, etc.), a bigger parking lot (which could already be in the works from what we've seen), and maybe another sitdown restaurant among other things, but that's just my take on it. The park officials know what's really best for VF and will do what they see necessary. I think if VF feels the way you do it is still very possible we could see a coaster come to VF in 2016. Take Carowinds as an example: new entrance, new coaster, all in 2015. Or cedar point: redoing their hotel and rougarou in the same year. If the new coaster is in the front of the park, they will probably refurbish the front of the park. My point is this sort of stuff can be done in the same year as the new coaster, and since Cedar Fair has shown me examples, I still think it is likely we will get a coaster in 2016. I agree with you that refurbishing needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I'm starting to accept that cautious optimism is good for 2016 as the park isn't really taking "off years" lately, but 2017 feels coaster good for sure. There just seem to be a lot of hints at big things for the big parks in 2016 which will probably eat up Cedar Fair's budget. They're definitely not done with bringing Carowinds up to par--that park is becoming their new golden child. I think Cedar Fair has corporate offices in Charlotte, so they definitely want a major presence there. But that doesn't necessitate an off year for Valleyfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasterguy21 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Actually Valleyfairs market is quite similar to both CW and Carowinds. All three markets draw from a base of about 9 million. CW is like the Disneyland of Canada which explains its popularity. The twin cities are Charlotte metro areas are very similar in size. Carowinds has us beat when it comes to weather but that doesn't stop Cedar Point. My point is that i believe Cedar Fair knows there is a lot of growth potential with Valleyfair and i think we are seeing the ground work being done to support that. I agree that i think Valleyfair has a lot in store for us in the next few years. Sorry, that is correct, Valleyfair & Canada's Wonderland's market size is the same (9 million). It's just that Toronto is a heavily visited city and that aids with the parks attendance (that and, as you said, its like the Disney World of Canada). This helps Canada's Wonderland pull in well over 3 million people a year. However, Charlotte's market size is 14 million (all quoted from Cedar Fair's Investor Relations page) and Charlotte is the the third fastest growing city in the United States (which is why so much focus is going on there probably). They pull in roughly 1.5 million to 2 million a year, which is why they would invest there if attendance starts to slip. Valleyfair sits at the 1 million mark (which isn't bad for having a shorter operating season than Carowinds). Yes a new coaster could help boost that a bit and I am anxious to see how attendance does increase following the next major addition. With that said, and the present market size of Valleyfair, it is getting to be about that time for a major addition. You don't want to saturate the park too much for the market, but, in this case, you wouldn't. I'm not so sure about 2016 but in the near future, a new coaster would not surprise me one bit. ^Yes, Cedar Fair has new regional headquarters in Charlotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I'm starting to accept that cautious optimism is good for 2016 as the park isn't really taking "off years" lately, but 2017 feels coaster good for sure. There just seem to be a lot of hints at big things for the big parks in 2016 which will probably eat up Cedar Fair's budget. They're definitely not done with bringing Carowinds up to par--that park is becoming their new golden child. I think Cedar Fair has corporate offices in Charlotte, so they definitely want a major presence there. But that doesn't necessitate an off year for Valleyfair. I don't think 2016 will necessarily be an off-year for Valleyfair. They could possibly add Larson Flying Scooters or maybe a fun flat ride from Zamperla (they have a good looking selection of flats) for next year alongslide general improvements. I just have my doubts that next year will bring a coaster because there are bigger rumors going around for other CF parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnumFreak25 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 No one says Cedar Fair won't put multiple large coasters in in the same year. They don't operate their parks as one group, they let each run them selves and make their own money. Most of their parks don't compete for the same market either so adding to Valley Fair, Cedar Point and Canada's Wonderland wouldn't effect each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasterguy21 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) ^Partially correct! They do have an overall capital expenditures budget however, which was set at $170 million for 2015 (mostly due to the Hotel Breakers renovation). They expect it to be about $120 million (which is up from the 9% of revenues guidance figure they adopted before) for years leading to the future. So, essentially, every park has to work to get their share of that $120 mil. They do operate the parks completely separate though, as you said. It goes into that ROI calculation. They'll spend as long as they know it can be recuperated via admission, season pass sales, parking, other investments and hotel sales. For example, say Fury 325 gives Carowinds a really good year (which it appears it will), the money earned from Carowinds doesn't mean that they build a coaster at Knotts because of that good season. Edited April 4, 2015 by Coasterguy21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyowl1028 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 If there is no coaster next year I am hoping for a windseeker. I did not say it is likely, it is just what I want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 A windseeker would be great (in my head it's in the Wild Thing turnaround). A pendulum would look great near it too (can they kill the amphitheater already?). And those Larson flyers would be perfect near Planet Snoopy somewhere--in my head it's back by Wild Thing, where I believe the Tilt a whirl used to be. Would be so fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey123 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I believe that cedar fair is done with the windseekers because they cause a lot of maintenance issues and I don't see them relocating another one for awhile. I have ridden one and it is nothing special I would much rather go to six flags and ride a reliable sky screamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyowl1028 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 If they do go with a windseeker there are lots of places it could go so that would make it more likely. Down by Route 76 I heard the height limit does not apply and there are plenty of spots. Wild Thing turn around, old Chaos spot, in between the WT turn around and the SV spiral, and lots of other places because they don't take much room. Windseekers are still possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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