Cedar Fair buys PARAMOUNT PARKS!

[coasterguy618]

This can be good for some parks but bad for some.

[darklingscribe]

The Park I'm looking at the most as of right now is Bonfante Gardens. It is the park which is least like any of the others CF is getting and correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Bonfante Gardens own a conciderable amount of land as well?

[Carnage]

I'd also like to know where they are getting that expansion space for Canadas Wonderland.

 

Unless by expansion space they are reffering to space with no rides. PCW has lots of grassy areas, so maybe they are reffering to that?

 

Park management wise I'm on the fence, leaning towards not a whole lot of real changes.

 

But I am excited about the potential of my trips to Cedar Point getting much cheaper for me and my freinds.

[Deadromanticx]

Hmm...I really don't know how I feel about this, but I'm leaning toward the positive. Cedar Fair is usually cleaner and friendlier than Paramount at least.

 

P.S. Can someone explain to me what the Paramount re-ride policy is that everyone keeps lamenting?

[disneyfan1313]

Ya know it is interesting that most folks seem to assume that there are going to be new attractions right away or something will be re-tracked ASAP. I actually bet it will be the opposite. Cedar Fair has now just taken on a HUGE chunk of work / debt which they are not used to having. I would bet there will be a bit of an adjustment period before any large amounts of money will be spent. Paramount Parks had a much larger company above them so coming up with the cash if needed was not as much of an issue. I would imagine each park will have to prove its worthiness before much capital investment is made.

 

But frankly I am most upset about the pepsi side as well!

[the_rock401]

The jury is still out on whether I think this is a good acquisition by CF. My initial reaction is to agree with disneyfan1313, and say that this debt service will keep blockbuster expansion quiet for a while. Throw in Wild Thing's extended visit to the DL, rumored major problems with SoB, and the big project going on at the Point, and I think they'll opt to pay down debts for a few years.

 

Paul "I hope VF doesn't get on the short end of this deal" Miller

[XtremeKing]

I think this wasn't such a good idea on Cedar Fair's part. Cedar Fair almost doubled it's size, therefore the company will be financially un-stable for a while. It may turn out ok- but time will tell. My call is most parks will get worse, some will get better depending on their current state.

 

Take Knotts for example. I think it will become even more deprived of good management because Cedar Fair will be too busy with the new parks.

 

 

Ben "As the saying goes, don't bite more than you can chew..." Fitz.

[Stitch]

Maybe SoB will get retracked now, and by a worthwhile company too...

 

Son Of Beast was retracked this year ... so it already happend

[TombraiderTy]

I rode the retracked SOB 2-3 dyas ago, and it is much smoother. Two bumpy parts, but everything else was great

[Spideyfreak]

Sorry if this has been mentioned. I have season passes to Paramount parks. Will these be valid at Cedar Fair parks too? Are they still valid at all?

[Dailey Enterprizes]

Lol, I think Cedar Fair let the "second oldest park in the world" thing get to their heads. I mean seriously, I see no reason whatsoever to purchase these parks, other than to gain real estate.

 

I mean come on. I just don't like the direction this is going in. Not just because Six Flags went through the same problem, but because I really thought that Cedar Fair was different. I guess not, I mean take a look at Kennywood. They had the opportunity to buy some parks that were located around Western PA and they didn't want to because it doesn't make sense to compete with themselves. Sandcastle, Idlewild, and Lake Compounce are exceptions due to their target consumers and locations.

 

Kennywood=families

Sandcastle=teenagers

Idlewild=young toddlers, infants, and pre-teens

Lake Compunce=families

 

I'm just hoping Cedar Fair knows what they're doing because I don't think they do.

[BrownStreak]

Every time I walk into Dorney, I expect to see a Home Depot and a Pier One along the midway. They're just too generic and lack character.

 

I was kinda put out when I walked into CP this past weekend and saw a Starbucks!

 

Here is my prediction: CP Season Pass (with access to every CF park except GL and KI)

They will then upcharge slightly more than the cost of a one-day to add EACH of the other two parks- thinking it will be up to $160 to get all 3!

 

Me, personally I'm just worried about September's Pride Night! Not so much for the fact that there are no lines- but you get to see all your friends from all over the midwest (and watch butch muscle boys scream like girls)!

[Immel Man]

What's with all the Coke enthusiasts on this site? I'm practically doing cartwheels around the house right now for the prospect of seeing Pepsi at all these parks. One of the things I'm most worried about is how they will treat the woodies. I know none of them are exactly world class in their current state, but CF's track record for maintaining woodies is well, bad.

 

King's Island is a much stronger park than Geauga Lake was when they bought it, so I doubt it will be neglected to protect Cedar Point. No matter what Cedar Fair would realistically add to it it still will not eclipse CP in coasters.

 

I think Great America and Carrowinds have the most immediate potential. I'm not expecting a rush of new coasters for either, but they will give CF presence in new areas that could hopefully stimulate some new development. I don't think any of these parks will get the Knott's/Dorney treatment since they have a lot more room left to expand before redoing existing areas.

[What Now]

I wonder what will happen with Bonfante Gardens. Will it have a manage contract with Cedar Fair now, or what?

[Jon Sabo]

Phew here we go! LOL

 

First, my previous comments on the CF-PKI thread can be seen here:

 

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25179

 

 

Secondly, WHO THE H*LL is advising CF?!! Omg- George Busch's dog? or ITPS?! *shaking head*

 

Let's ponder some insight on the near future.

1. Kinzel retires end of year. Who is in charge of the (sinking) boat for the future of CF, Ltd? We don't even know the new management team (oveall) and what THEIR vision is yet. I see a train wreck coming. I hope the transition can be a smooth ride (both Kinzel's new mgmt team AND the Paramount transfer to CF). Too much on both plates and the new team better be able to adapt or there will be hell to pay with CF shareholders.

2. Combined revenue of BOTH CF & Paramount parks will be 'projected' of $1+ billion. SO WHAT!. The re-branding, re-management, and other (local parks) issues regarding the Paramount-brand parks NEED to be addressed and fixed! Some observers here are not looking at this from a management, asset, fiscal $, and operational issue. Someone better look at the weather forecasts/projections for each CF aquisition before making bold statements on revenue. (Search Amusement Business past trends/attendance as well as CF/Paramount Shareholder reports on revenue). Past trends in both attendance figures/revenue/in-park spending/weather patterns, etc are NOT on CF's side in terms of total portfolio revenue.

 

I feel that both park chains have some issues (management and operational) to resolve and now they are going to have a big headache on their hands in re-branding all of their parks into CF. We shouldn't EVEN start mentioning things like: Hypercoasters until ALL of the basic fundamental issues are addressed. Each park has several critical issues and management MUST identify them and correct them quickly in order to remain profitable. Just adding rides in WON'T fix the problems. Although I am skeptical on Six Flags future, Mark Shapiro and his management team has a good VISION of rebranding the themepark chain. Does CF possess that same vision? Hmm.

 

Quality management and quality-control (fiscal control) will. I believe there are some quality managers on both Paramount and CF side, but if CF "cleans-house" and not be able to identify and retain the quality mgrs from Paramount, there will be a major shakeup in CF's debt structure in the near and long-term assets.

 

*Point to watch for? Who cares on the acres one park has and so on, watch for some of that land (depending on location) to be sold in order to get the total debt down. Case in point: Disney (sells massive acres in Fl.) & Universal does a similar move to reduce debt. Don't believe that B.S. they "not need the land". Management is trying hard to recoup the sale of the land for the highest premium price-market is presenting. This enables the parks to re-invest within the park(s) as well as reduce massive debt.

 

3. Someone did not notify CF-management team of the Premier parks-Six Flags acquisition AND the European purchase fest. Look what has happened to Six Flags now...can we say..."2+ billion debt?!"

 

4. If CF truly wants to benefit from these recent events, they had better take a CLOSE look at 6-Flags failures and learn from those mistakes, because right now, I will predict CF in major fiscal trouble within the next 3-4 yrs. Sorry CP/Paramount fans, this does NOT look good in the near term. Only time will TRULY tell, but I feel the industry is going through another identity crisis (not since the 1st Gulf War-ending).

[kittymix]

I am not happy at all. If what they did to Knott's Berry Farm is any indication, trees will be cut down and the park will be turned into concrete and steel. I will say that I think Son Of Beast is the EXACT type of ride that Cedar Fair deserves.

[pkdcoaster]

P.S. Can someone explain to me what the Paramount re-ride policy is that everyone keeps lamenting?

 

I know for a fact that Carowinds and PKD will let you stay on the coaster and even change seats to an empty seat as long as nobody is occuping that seat.

 

Every CF park makes you walk all the way around no matter what

 

JEFF

[Immel Man]

Not all Cedar Fair parks strictly enforce it. I've gotten multiple re-rides on Xcelerator, Silver Bullet and Supreme Scream at Knott's in the last month. If crowds are light they usually let it slide.

 

Another thing about Cedar Fair people have to keep in mind is that they won't automatically pour concrete everywhere and strip a park of it's atmosphere just because they can. Knott's and Dorney are exceptions because they had hardly any room left to expand. They had to overhaul entire areas to add any type of major attraction (they still could have done a better job though). These Paramount parks don't have that problem. They are not going to lay down a big slab of concrete over an existing area at King's Island when they still have a few hundred acres left.

[Fisherman]

they could paint Top Gun canary yellow and rename it "Woodstock: Flight of Fear". heh.

[Freefallbestrideever]

Not all Cedar Fair parks strictly enforce it. I've gotten multiple re-rides on Xcelerator, Silver Bullet and Supreme Scream at Knott's in the last month. If crowds are light they usually let it slide.

I approve this message.

[jamesdillaman]

Wow, a lot of people are saying the same things on here... I think it's too early to tell anything. Cedar Fair made a business decision, a rather large one, that was approved by Cedar Fair's investors, bank, finance officers, and the major stockholders. All groups seemed to think this was a good decision, and I back them. For the first time in years I will ponder going to Kings Island, because even if the pass costs more, I will still buy a pass if it gets me in to cedar point as well, where as Kings Island by itself is worth visiting once or twice a year at best. People tout it's wooden coasters, but I'd much rather ride the Indiana woodies a few hours away anyday! I am a fan of Cedar Point, and the only reason Michigan Adventure DOESN'T have a hyper is the height restriction and problems with the city. I first saw a news article saying cedar fair was trying to build a coaster over 200 feet at Michigan Adventure like the year after they bought it. They were shot down by the city, so don't think that cedar fair didn't try. The newest addition to that park, the Grand Rapids, is a great ride for that market and something the park was in need of. I don't think any changes will be seen at any parks for a while, but I can't imagine cedar fair will PAY for the paramount license, as it isn't that big a draw anyways. I run into teens at KI who don't even know that Face/Off was a movie, and have never seen Top Gun. The best is the ones who think Tomb Raider is themed to a video game. yeah... As far as I'm concerned the parks are moving from one corporation to another, but at least cedar fair is in the theme park business, so the parks are there number 1 priority. CBS had a lot more on their plate, much more important things than the theme parks. I think this is good, and poo to all who don't

James "Lots of people I know are either excited or indifferent" Dillaman

[knottslover77]

Knotts isn't the 2nd best park in the company any more.

[Corkscrewed]

I really don't know if I think this is a good thing or a bad thing. I really never had any issues with Paramount Parks. Sure they might not have gotten the best rides from a "Coaster Enthusiast" point of view, but for the most part I have to say that I've usually enjoyed my days at Paramount Parks and found them to be mostly "hassle free", which I honestly can't say the same for my last visits to Knott's, Dorney, Worlds Of Fun, or Valleyfair.

 

Also, just look at what has become of Knott's since they purchased that park.

 

--Robb

Well, that takes care of the joke I was gonna make, which was "Say goodbye to good/decent guest service!"

[Thrillrider15]

Wow! In a way I knew Cedar Fair would climb higher than Six Flags (It's still behind).

[QueerRudie]

O.K.- Injecting a little bit more info on this one-

 

First: A company that does not expand, even if gradually, will be challenged into the future. Paramount Parks has done a fair to good job of creating a solid family park environment across the chains, despite what 'we, the enthusiasts' belive. Yes, they've made mistakes, and have not always chosen the best path, but then again, who has in this industry? Six Flags? Disney? Universal?

 

Second: Bear, Stearns and Foster (If I read the press release correctly) will be arranging the 2 Billion dollars worth of extended financing for the purchase. If Cedar Fair LP is buying 1.24 Bn worth of park, and has 2.0 Bn worth of financing, that would leave 760 Mn left over. Assuming that legal costs for the transaction take between 15-20 Mn and excess spending (non- integration/non-direct expense) is another 20-25 Mn, that would leave a hefty 700 Mn for debt refinancing and for expansion/conversion/upgrades of existing parks. Knowing that Cedar Fair tends to plan ahead for existing parks, I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the remainder of the funds (Provided that CF LP doesn't turn back the remainder of the financing) would be used to convert and upgrade the Paramount Parks to the Cedar Fair level. Yes, more Trash Cans and Pepsi, but the non-tangible upgrades should also be worth it.

 

Third: The industry was waiting for consolidation. Six Flags started the trend when Premier Parks bought out the chain in the mid 90's. Cedar Fair has acquired substantial assets in the regional park chains for quite a while now, and has cemented their mark on the industry. Busch Entertainment Corp. did the same thing with the Sea World acquisiton in the late 80s. The trend isn't going to stop now, either.

 

Yes, mergers and acquisitions can often fail miserably. (See Also: Pan American plus Delta in 1990; Continental plus PeoplExpress, New York Air, Frontier and PBA in 1987; etc.) In this case, I think that it's a great exception to the rule. This is a good thing, people. It will mean a whole new set of challenges for the Cedar Fair people, but nothing a great company of their kind can't handle.

 

P.S. Rob, You're right, Re: Hypers in every park. Perhaps I should re-frame my thought a bit: Quality coasters in every park.