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Knoebels Discussion Thread


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I gotta be honest, after watching the video, and having been on pretty much every bobsled coaster in the world, I agree with Wes. The top-down layout means nothing to me. It's all about how a coaster rides. The ride looks *FUN*, don't get me wrong, but I can't see how the ride experience is *that* much different than some other similar rides I've been on, other than it's made out of wood.

 

I think the biggest difference is going to be the train length. Having the shorter trains on FT probably allows for more articulation/swinging on the straightaways, especially on the bottom level of the Triple-8. This looks more out of control(ish) than Mack bobsleds, but it could just be the wide angle lens combined with where the camera is mounted creating a tunnel vision effect.

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Not to rag on the ride....but it's seriously small and a short ride. It does look wild for a bit; bit it reminds me a bit of a mine coaster with the first lift hill and such.

 

Why invest all that time into for that? It's cool to recreate the wood..but for the result? Ehh....I don't think the trade off is there. Are they going to see a boost in attendance that ...say Universal got from Harry Potter? I don't think so!

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Not to rag on the ride....but it's seriously small and a short ride. It does look wild for a bit; bit it reminds me a bit of a mine coaster with the first lift hill and such.

 

Why invest all that time into for that? It's cool to recreate the wood..but for the result? Ehh....I don't think the trade off is there. Are they going to see a boost in attendance that ...say Universal got from Harry Potter? I don't think so!

 

I can't even tell if you're being serious. The reason why responses like this are so ridiculous is because the stupid thing has been built for years now, why should ANYONE be surprised by the height/size/layout? It was always meant as a family coaster. And it should be obvious that they're doing it for the love of it, not because they're worried about how much business they're going to attract. Are you seriously comparing it to a new marquee attraction at Universal, as of the two have anything to do with each other at all?

 

Or are you doing your best impression of all the dumb Facebook commentators? Because if so you forgot to add some spelling mistaeks.

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Just a few responses I found amusing from Knoebels on the Flying Turns video.

I actually love that the person running the Knoebels page is actually direct and knowledgeable rather than copying and pasting a stock standard reply that doesn't really answer anything and only works to promote the ride/park, like pretty much every other park's FB page does.

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Not to rag on the ride....but it's seriously small and a short ride. It does look wild for a bit; bit it reminds me a bit of a mine coaster with the first lift hill and such.

 

Why invest all that time into for that? It's cool to recreate the wood..but for the result? Ehh....I don't think the trade off is there. Are they going to see a boost in attendance that ...say Universal got from Harry Potter? I don't think so!

 

I can't even tell if you're being serious. The reason why responses like this are so ridiculous is because the stupid thing has been built for years now, why should ANYONE be surprised by the height/size/layout? It was always meant as a family coaster. And it should be obvious that they're doing it for the love of it, not because they're worried about how much business they're going to attract. Are you seriously comparing it to a new marquee attraction at Universal, as of the two have anything to do with each other at all?

 

Or are you doing your best impression of all the dumb Facebook commentators? Because if so you forgot to add some spelling mistaeks.

 

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Not to rag on the ride....but it's seriously small and a short ride. It does look wild for a bit; bit it reminds me a bit of a mine coaster with the first lift hill and such.

 

Why invest all that time into for that? It's cool to recreate the wood..but for the result? Ehh....I don't think the trade off is there. Are they going to see a boost in attendance that ...say Universal got from Harry Potter? I don't think so!

 

I can't even tell if you're being serious. The reason why responses like this are so ridiculous is because the stupid thing has been built for years now, why should ANYONE be surprised by the height/size/layout? It was always meant as a family coaster. And it should be obvious that they're doing it for the love of it, not because they're worried about how much business they're going to attract. Are you seriously comparing it to a new marquee attraction at Universal, as of the two have anything to do with each other at all?

 

Or are you doing your best impression of all the dumb Facebook commentators? Because if so you forgot to add some spelling mistaeks.

 

A gentle reminder for one of your Friendly Neighborhood Site Moderators: Please keep this discussion civil. No flame wars, please.

 

As for Flying Turns, while it doesn't look like a "major thrill" machine, it is a nice addition to their lineup, and I'm glad that they seemed to have, at last, worked out the kinks.

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Not to rag on the ride....but it's seriously small and a short ride. It does look wild for a bit; bit it reminds me a bit of a mine coaster with the first lift hill and such.

 

Sounds GREAT to me, I LOVE mine coasters!

 

-> YOLO drop into brakes. 100' high brake run on Leviathan. 80' tall "ending on a high note" on Banshee. Super big, super good looking yet lame new coaster at Concrete Point. Meh, I'll take Knoebels anytime. Kudos to them, they rock.

Edited by GayCoasterGuy
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Not to rag on the ride....but it's seriously small and a short ride. It does look wild for a bit; bit it reminds me a bit of a mine coaster with the first lift hill and such.

 

Why invest all that time into for that? It's cool to recreate the wood..but for the result? Ehh....I don't think the trade off is there. Are they going to see a boost in attendance that ...say Universal got from Harry Potter? I don't think so!

 

Long story short: Knoebel's is not Universal. They're not competing against Disney and SeaWorld for guests. They don't need to build multimillion-dollar attractions to sustain massive attendance numbers that make shareholders happy. Knoebel's is a small, family park committed to preserving classic rides.

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Not to rag on the ride....but it's seriously small and a short ride. It does look wild for a bit; bit it reminds me a bit of a mine coaster with the first lift hill and such.

 

Why invest all that time into for that? It's cool to recreate the wood..but for the result? Ehh....I don't think the trade off is there. Are they going to see a boost in attendance that ...say Universal got from Harry Potter? I don't think so!

 

I can't even tell if you're being serious. The reason why responses like this are so ridiculous is because the stupid thing has been built for years now, why should ANYONE be surprised by the height/size/layout? It was always meant as a family coaster. And it should be obvious that they're doing it for the love of it, not because they're worried about how much business they're going to attract. Are you seriously comparing it to a new marquee attraction at Universal, as of the two have anything to do with each other at all?

 

Or are you doing your best impression of all the dumb Facebook commentators? Because if so you forgot to add some spelling mistaeks.

 

I know it's a family coaster, I'm not saying it should be massive. I'm just saying since it took them so long to build this thing I was expecting a bit more; it looks like the same ride that was in the 2011 video? And yes I'm comparing it to a big boost in attendance. I know they're doing it for the love of the ride, but if they're working on a project for ..how long? 3-4 years, I'm sure they want to bring in more people and sell more tickets. The ride does look wild at some points, and I LOVED La Vibora at SFOT, but hey one of the things I love most is ride duration; so maybe that's why I'm not biting at this ride.

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I know it's a family coaster, I'm not saying it should be massive. I'm just saying since it took them so long to build this thing I was expecting a bit more; it looks like the same ride that was in the 2011 video? And yes I'm comparing it to a big boost in attendance. I know they're doing it for the love of the ride, but if they're working on a project for ..how long? 3-4 years, I'm sure they want to bring in more people and sell more tickets. The ride does look wild at some points, and I LOVED La Vibora at SFOT, but hey one of the things I love most is ride duration; so maybe that's why I'm not biting at this ride.

 

You clearly don't understand the average Knoebels customer and the park's focus. The locals won't care about it not being the fastest and craziest ride. The park still has Black Diamond as an upcharge on wristband days and there is always a steady line. Knoebels is the type of park where guests get a great deal with low ride prices and free parking, but the park makes up the money by keeping you there all day. The more time families spend: the more food they eat, the more souvenirs they buy and the more games they play. Since families have a great time they keep coming back.

 

Sure, Sick Knoebels might have played the ride up Flying Turns type coaster as something he loved as a kid. However, just because it was exciting for him I never had expectations that it would blow me away.

 

For anyone to compare this to Universal is ludicrous. Universal spent ten of millions of dollars on Potterville. Universal competes with Disney and SeaWorld. Universal needs to fills hotels.

 

I'd be surprised if Knoeels spent more than $1,000,000, since they have the lumber and labor is mostly in-house. Knoebels will recuperate much of the cost over time solely based on ticket sales for the ride. They don't need a big boost in attendance to keep the park relevant.

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I know it's a family coaster, I'm not saying it should be massive. I'm just saying since it took them so long to build this thing I was expecting a bit more; it looks like the same ride that was in the 2011 video? And yes I'm comparing it to a big boost in attendance. I know they're doing it for the love of the ride, but if they're working on a project for ..how long? 3-4 years, I'm sure they want to bring in more people and sell more tickets. The ride does look wild at some points, and I LOVED La Vibora at SFOT, but hey one of the things I love most is ride duration; so maybe that's why I'm not biting at this ride.

 

It looks like the same ride because it is the same ride. Mostly all they've been working on is the trains. They haven't been spending all this time "improving" the ride, all they've been doing is trying to make it meet modern safety standards. It isn't really fair for the "hype" to grow in proportion to how long the ride has been in development, I mean it was always just going to be a wooden bobsled coaster. If you've spent seven years thinking it's taking this long due to sheer epicness, you're bound to be disappointed.

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Once it got past the 2 year mark Knoebel's had to make a decision and either choice would cause people to bash the park.

1 - Even though the majority of the costs and labor were done they could scrap the ride and admit the project was a mistake and be ridiculed.

2 - They could forge ahead, persevere finally get to this point and be ridiculed.

 

Then again many ridiculed the park's decision to build Flying Turns from the get go, so why not just follow through and deliver the ride.

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I know it's a family coaster, I'm not saying it should be massive. I'm just saying since it took them so long to build this thing I was expecting a bit more; it looks like the same ride that was in the 2011 video? And yes I'm comparing it to a big boost in attendance. I know they're doing it for the love of the ride, but if they're working on a project for ..how long? 3-4 years, I'm sure they want to bring in more people and sell more tickets. The ride does look wild at some points, and I LOVED La Vibora at SFOT, but hey one of the things I love most is ride duration; so maybe that's why I'm not biting at this ride.

 

You clearly don't understand the average Knoebels customer and the park's focus. The locals won't care about it not being the fastest and craziest ride. The park still has Black Diamond as an upcharge on wristband days and there is always a steady line. Knoebels is the type of park where guests get a great deal with low ride prices and free parking, but the park makes up the money by keeping you there all day. The more time families spend: the more food they eat, the more souvenirs they buy and the more games they play. Since families have a great time they keep coming back.

 

Sure, Dick Knoebels might have played the ride up Flying Turns type coaster as something he loved as a kid. However, just because it was exciting for him I never had expectations that it would blow me away.

I'm not sure why you're being so defensive. He actually has a very valid point. Ever since this ride started construction I kept hearing from many people, including the people at Knoebels that this ride will be something amazing and will blow people away. And that it's something the likes of most theme park goers haven't seen in decades.

 

I'll be honest, from what was initially being presented by the park, I should be expecting a ride that was going to blow Phoenix out of the water, and the reason why it's been taking so long is because the ride does crazy insane things that normal roller coasters don't/can't do.

 

Dick Knoebel said to our group at during one of our visits "I've been on Flying Turns, and it is the best roller coaster I've ridden." And he owns Phoenix!

 

Those are the expectations that have been set by the park, and told to us personally from the people working on the project. And of course that compounded by the number of "enthusiasts" talking up the ride of how awesome, amazing, epic, and insane it is, I gotta be honest, if it doesn't blow me away, I'm going to be a bit disappointed.

 

I fully understand the Knoebels audience and all you have to do is read their Facebook page and you can see there is a lot of people VERY skeptical about the ride. (Although, that being said, I think most of the comments on the Facebook page are utter garbage and I wouldn't really recommend anyone reading them, and I commend the person at the park who is having to deal with that.)

 

End of the day, if this ends up just being a flat-out "fun" ride, the same way Black Diamond is "fun" or even slightly more unique Knoebels rides like Looper or Downdraft is "fun", then I think it's a huge WIN for the park and would fit right in, but at the same time, I kind of think that type of ride won't live up to the hype it's been given.

 

But I'm not going to let it slide that a lot of people have been REALLY TALKING UP the ride for almost a decade now, and that's going to set some people expectations, regardless if it does turn out to be an amazing family ride.

 

--Robb "Just being realistic here..." Alvey

Edited by robbalvey
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It's hard not to oversell something that's so unique and has taken so long to complete. But give it a year, all the hype/fuss/disappointment will fade away and it'll just be another fun family ride with an interesting history behind it at Knoebels. I don't think anybody involved in the project deserves anything but admiration for their integrity and commitment. Any ridicule just reeks of pettiness.

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It's hard not to oversell something that's so unique and has taken so long to complete. But give it a year, all the hype/fuss/disappointment will fade away and it'll just be another fun family ride with an interesting history behind it at Knoebels. I don't think anybody involved in the project deserves anything but admiration for their integrity and commitment. Any ridicule just reeks of pettiness.

I guess am I the only one that finds what you said exactly the reason why I hope it's more than "just another family ride?"

 

Imagine the disappointment to those who have spent more than a lifetime working on the project to have it be "just another family ride."

 

I'm really hoping that Flying Turns lives up to the hype that the park and the fans have been giving it, and that it's more than "just another family ride."

 

I admire the fact that the park is doing something they said couldn't be done, and that Knoebels has pushed forward to create the ride. I think it may end up being that serves them very well in the long run. But I think in the short term there will be some disappointment based on the expectations that have been set. I could be (and I hope I am) wrong.

 

--Robb "I don't think anyone who is questioning a ride that's taken 6 years to build is being petty, just legitimately concerned." Alvey

Edited by robbalvey
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Honestly, I'm kind of expecting Flying Turns to be one of those kick-butt awesome rides that doesn't necessarily make anyone's top coaster lists - like maybe that Ultra Twister at Rustusu with the dive loop that everyone who goes on a TPR trip to Japan seems to like so much (I've never ridden it so I can't judge)?

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Honestly, I'm kind of expecting Flying Turns to be one of those kick-butt awesome rides that doesn't necessarily make anyone's top coaster lists - like maybe that Ultra Twister at Rustusu with the dive loop that everyone who goes on a TPR trip to Japan seems to like so much (I've never ridden it so I can't judge)?

To be fair, that Ultra Twister DOES actually make it in my top 20, it's just not represented because the Mitch Hawker poll lumps that one in with all the other Ultra Twisters that don't, and IMO, it really is a totally different ride experience. So I simply don't rank it, period, when it comes to that poll.

Edited by robbalvey
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If the ride turns out to be as much fun and as screwed up as Ultra Twister @ Rustusu, it will definitely crack the top 20 list. The POV doesn't make it seem like that will be the case, but you never know. Either way, I am sure it will be a big hit for the park.

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