Knoebels Discussion Thread

[coasterbill]

A B&M would be out of place, I fail to see what's out of place about a small looping coaster of a very modest size. The park needs a coaster like this to draw in new people that currently might head to Dorney or another competing park because of the appeal of looping coasters.

 

And as far as Startosfear, it's a very modest size as well. I think it fits in perfectly, and interestingly enough it's the best drop tower I've ever ridden even though I've ridden huge Intamin drop towers like Lex Luthor and the drop tower at Kings Dominion.

 

Sorry, but you're in the minority here. It's not like the park is forgetting it's roots (aren't they currently refurbishing 2 antique kiddie rides for the 2014 season?), but they need to mix in a few modern rides here and there like this new coaster, Fandango and Startosfear.

[Hercules]

Yeah I certainly think this will fit in nicely. I don't see a problem with a steel coaster at all taking away from the park. It's a small looper. It's like 98 feet tall. If it were towering over the trees like an Intamin hyper or something, and like over 4,000 feet of track length, then it certainly would not fit in, but this looks like it will be a very nice edition to the park and the locals will be sure to love it.

[Dr. M]

I love Knoebels, but I can't approve of this ride for this park. I love the ride itself, but it doesn't belong at Knoebels. It doesn't fit the theme of the "Old Fashion" park where the rides are classics. I didn't like it when they installed the Stratos Fear tower their either.

 

We'll be at the park this year, and we'll give it a try in 2015. I hope this new coaster doesn't change the park for the worse.

 

How could it change the park for the worse? All the old rides will still be there. Knoebels has always been a mix of the old and new. They had Whirlwind, they have modern flats like Power Surge and Fandango, really this is nothing new. The only thing Knoebels can be relied on to do is whatever it feels like doing, whatever it thinks would be best for the park.

 

Anyway I'm convinced we're looking at the final rendering. The flat section of the track has those tire booster thingies (that's the technical term), but no launch mechanism, it's there so they can have that track that wraps around the lift hill, the barrel roll through the loop is being called an immelman for some reason, and the banked turnaround is being called an "airtime hill". I hope that mean-looking helix at the end packs a lot of Gs. Also, does anyone else think that loop is looking oddly spherical? I mean like an almost perfect circle?

 

Question: I've never ridden a Eurofighter before, is this layout pretty par for the course for that style of ride? Is there anything particularly unique about it?

 

And one final thought: Fahrenheit looks gigantic at Hershey, and it's only twenty-three feet taller than this ride. This ride is going to look MASSIVE at Knoebels.

 

EDIT: Ok one more final thought. Only at Knoebels would you have so many people complaining on facebook over the loss of freaking bumper boats for the sake of a new coaster. Do these people think Knoebels is a museum? Would they rather they just not build anything new ever again?

Edited February 21, 2014 by Dr. M

[coasterbill]

Question: I've never ridden a Eurofighter before, is this layout pretty par for the course for that style of ride? Is there anything particularly unique about it?

 

The cobra roll is pretty unique for a Euro Fighter type ride (I'm really not including Farenheit since it's an Intamin and feels totally different than the Euro Fighters or their Zierer equivalents. The lap bar is unique too since the Gerstlauer versions generally have over the shoulder restraints (though I believe Dare Devil Dive has lap bars and some other coasters may as well). Wicked (which is also a Zierer model) has lap bars too. Euro Fighters are slightly bumpy. I'm not sure if that should even be brought up here since it's not a Gerstlauer but I would think lap bars would provide a better experience regardless.

 

I think this is going to be a fun ride.

 

EDIT: Ok one more final thought. Only at Knoebels would you have so many people complaining on facebook over the loss of freaking bumper boats for the sake of a new coaster.

 

Because they're idiots. The Bumper Boats aren't historically significant, you can ride them at a lot of miniature golf courses and they're a pretty terrible ride. If you're going to whine about anything whine about boat tag which is far more unique. Personally I don't care about that either but if it's between bitching about that or bumper boats, bitch about boat tag. But preferably they should just shut up and enjoy the new coaster. If you want to get wet ride the awesome log flume or Skloosh. If you want to bump into stuff walk 30 seconds and ride the best bumper cars in the world.

[COASTER FREAK 11]

I never have seen anyone on Boat Tag the times I have been there. Maybe it was closed, I don't know, but its seems like a minor loss. Also, if people really complain about it, they could just move Boat Tag, its not big at all.

[simon8899]

the Gerstlauer versions generally have over the shoulder restraints

 

True for mostly the older Eurofighters. Newer ones get lapbar trains like Karacho if the park wants them - even if these new coasters fit in with Gerstlauer's new Infinity-Coaster line like The Smiler they look and feel quite Eurofighter 2.0 to me...

[Wallfan]

I'm starting to think I am in the minority!

 

Knoebels is the best. It is very close to my heart. I've been going there since I was spending most of the day in the kiddie area so my son could ride rides. Now he's in his teens and can't wait to get on Twister.

 

This is a ride I never thought I would see there. Perhaps everyone will flock to this ride and I'll have the Flyers all to myself!

[A.J.]

Generally, the front of the park has been made up of mostly modern-era rides anyway, like Sklooosh, Power Surge, Downdraft and Galleon. It's not until you get to the back of the park that you see the iconic classics like Phoenix and the Flyers.

 

The younger generation isn't going to be completely sold on nostalgia. I'm pretty sure that the majority of guests who come to Knoebels come because the park is "operationally nostalgic". The park continues to be owned by a good old-fashioned family, they have some of the most efficient ride operators in the business (the Phoenix crew), they have long ride cycles that are worth the wait, you can rent out a picnic pavilion... The list goes on.

 

Sure, I want [insert awesome old ride that some park has neglected here] to show up at Knoebels, but to get the younger and older generations in you have to have a balance.

[Dr. M]

Also what I think people sometimes forget is that rides like Flying Turns come from an era when amusement parks wanted cutting-edge rides that gave the biggest thrills given the technology at the time. Kind of like today! New rides eventually become old rides, that future generations will then become nostalgic about. It's great that Knoebels has preservation of history as part of their business model, but it's 100% unreasonable to expect them to make that their ONLY business model. People of all types and tastes visit Knoebels, and like any good amusement park Knoebels will make an effort to accommodate them.

 

Personally, I don't believe new ever has to come at the expense of the old, and clearly Knoebels agrees. If they had the space and the funds, if they wanted to build an RMC, a B&M invert (a good one ), even a hyper coaster, I wouldn't complain at all. Just because they're small now doesn't mean they have to stay small. Look at SDC, they've built many bigger rides while keeping their "small park charm". (And I bet old people complained loudly every step of the way.)

[ajfelice]

Having grown up with and continue to work at a raditional amusement park, my beliefs on what makes an amusement park a Traditional Amusement Park have evolved significantly. When I think of a Traditional Amusement Park, I think of a few core things:

1. A park that is deeply rooted in a community in ownership and patronage for several generations.

2. A park that is family friendly offering a fair amount of rides of all thrill and age categories.

3. A park that is operated traditionally with free/cheap general admission, option to pay-per-ride, and offers free/very parking.

 

Not one of these are about the age of the rides or nostalgia of the ride. Having rare older rides is something often common in small traditional parks, but it is not what I think makes a park "traditional." Many older rides are often preserved in smaller family parks because the park has the time to delicately take care of them, and quite frankly the parks don't have the income to frequently upgrade to the high tech rides. Also, in many cases older rides are pretty low capacity which is simply not conducive to a large corporate park. Think about it, a place like your typical Six Flags or Cedar Fair park would never have a ride with as low capacity as Knoebels Looper or Satellite, and they simply don't have enough time to dedicate to maintain them when they have a huge facility to maintain. In my neck of the woods, a traditional ride like Whacky Shack sticks around because its still very popular, its low capacity is not yet taking away from the overall experience of the park, and the potential gains by replacing it with something better in capacity/maintenance are not yet significant to consider.

 

There is nothing wrong with a traditional park adding a modern steel coaster. What makes Knoebels a unique traditional amusement park will still be there and continuing on for a long time. New rides will come and perhaps some old ones may retire, but in the end, Knoebels will still be delivering traditional style family fun. Quite frankly, nostalgia in having mainly older rides is not enough by itself to drive in the masses to keep a park growing. Last time I checked, keeping a park just the way it is for the sake of memories or nostalgia without any upgrades or new modern attractions for several years will only hurt in the park in the long term.

Edited February 21, 2014 by ajfelice

[Myself]

Just found this bit of gold on their Facebook page.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: whoever does the responses for the Knoebels FB page is awesome.

[larrygator]

I love Knoebels, but I can't approve of this ride for this park. I love the ride itself, but it doesn't belong at Knoebels. It doesn't fit the theme of the "Old Fashion" park where the rides are classics. I didn't like it when they installed the Stratos Fear tower their either.

 

We'll be at the park this year, and we'll give it a try in 2015. I hope this new coaster doesn't change the park for the worse.

 

I hear where you are coming from and respectfully disagree.

 

Did the park change for the worse when they installed their first wood coaster in 1985? This was also their first grown-up coaster?

Edited February 21, 2014 by larrygator

[robbalvey]

People also seem to be forgetting that they had a double-looping steel coaster for a VERY LONG TIME. And that ride wasn't very good. (But it made some AWESOME noises!)

 

This ride looks light years ahead of Whirlwind and I don't see an issue with bringing back a steel looping coaster into the park again.

[yankeeman311]

I'm sorry but people complaining about Bumper Boats are just wrong. They're bad Bumper Boats anyway and you're getting a freaking coaster in its place! This really convinced me that no matter what ride you take out, you're gonna make someone unhappy. I guess people have a hard time letting go or seeing change.

[Guy T. Koepp]

^Remember, no matter what you do. There is always someone out there that is gonna hate on it. I have never been to Knobels, but this is definitely going to sway me it's direction the next time I am in the area working.

 

As my son says, "Haters gonna hate, and taters gonna tate. That's just life. Learn to disassociate."

 

Guy "Taters as in, potatoes. Yes, potatoes." Koepp

[Meteornotes]

I think this ride makes perfect sense for Knoebel's. It adds a style of attraction that hasn't been at the park for awhile, and isn't an insane budget buster like some people had suggested. I like the location as well. They need to work on the PR skills (seriously, if you're going to announce a ride, put together a press release and be consistant on your various social media platforms), but this is a good addition that I think will make the majority of park guests happy.

 

dt

[Taylor Finn]

Yeah, I think this coaster is an excellent fit honestly. It won't be so tall so as to steal attention and feel out of place, and I think they will run this at pretty decent capacity, as well. And especially considering where it is at in the park, it is near a lot of other more modern attractions. I know they will increase wristband prices a bit now, but I hope they don't increase individual ride costs anytime soon. That is my favorite part about this park. You really have to ride to get your money's worth on the wristbands.

[cfc]

I'm sorry but people complaining about Bumper Boats are just wrong. They're bad Bumper Boats anyway and you're getting a freaking coaster in its place! This really convinced me that no matter what ride you take out, you're gonna make someone unhappy. I guess people have a hard time letting go or seeing change.

 

Now if they got rid of Fascination or birch beer, that would be worth complaining about. I see the Bumper Boats as no loss, while Impulse should be a big gain for an already great park.

[coasterbill]

^Remember, no matter what you do. There is always someone out there that is gonna hate on it. I have never been to Knobels, but this is definitely going to sway me it's direction the next time I am in the area working.

 

Honestly, you don't need an excuse to go to Knoebels. Seriously... just go, you won't regret it. Especially since you're such a big Dollywood fan, if you're a Dollywood fan I'm sure Knoebels will be right up your alley as it has a very similar feel to it.

[megametal]

After viewing the comments to Knoebels facebook post that the bumper boats would be removed because it's at the end of its service life, I wanted to give a good slap to everyone throwing a hissy. God, what horrible people. One lady even suggested tearing down Flying Turns to put in Impulse instead. Good grief! You can find bumper boats at many mini-golf/sport center complexes! Then there was the old lady who put up about 5-10 comments about how the park was going to become like Dorney is and how the park was going to be all steel coasters soon. I'm sure there'll be one about Satanic cults running the park by tomorrow.

[Dr. M]

Continuing to prove they're the most awesome park in the world, they recently posted:

 

"The bumper boats and boat tag will operate in 2014. The bumper boats are approaching the end of their operational life. We had to remove the roof and it would be very expensive to replace. The engines are nearing the end of their functionality. It's an expensive ride to operate given gasoline prices and the cost of keeping the engines running. The ride has seen decreasing ridership over the last decade. In determining whether to replace the current engines and roof, we had to consider whether the number of riders would justify the expense. Unfortunately, we determined it wouldn't be a wise financial decision."

 

They didn't need to defend themselves, but they did anyway. 'Cause they care about their guests.

 

But I did get a big kick out of this comment:

"Would it be possible to just have riders put thier feet thru the innertube and bump into each other in the drained pool while making motor boat noises?"

[tarheel1231]

LOL! Funny.

[larrygator]

In reading the comments the only people complaining seem to be older/middle age or older women who don't ride anything else at the park.

[megametal]

^ I never knew the old grannies loved bumper boats so much. The times I've been to Knoebels, it was mainly like 10-13 year old boys on them. Never saw adults ride the things.

[downunder]

I'll live if the Bumper Boats aren't there.

 

While an RMC or terrain coaster would have been sweet. I like the new coaster, and it's not so big that it will overwhelm the park. Should be fun.