sfgam#1 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeBACl4Hx98 A video of the Carmen lady.. Yep she's full of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVA62 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 What an unfortunate accident, thoughts and prayers go out to that family. I have a question about the restraint lights. I have never seen them before, where are they? And are they only on Gerstlauer trains or does every train manufacturer put them on the trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Crappy situation, and my heart goes out to everyone... But for everyone here, stop and take a step back. Don't listen to any of the speculation and don't contribute to it. The investigation will eventually yield some sort of answer that we can then look at and debate, but before that point there is a number of things that have to happen first, none of which anyone here can do. Listening to people who 'were there' but have no idea about what happened isn't going to help matters either. What we know is that a rider on the NTG came out of the ride and died. I'll also add this, without going deeply into it - restraints are designed to handle the most extreme situations that they can. It is ridiculous to think that the manufacturer did not design the restraints with the knowledge / understanding that a larger person could sit in the ride putting additional outward stress on the harness. The restraints were designed to handle all of those situations. It's also ridiculous to hypothesize that because the ride spent some time down because of harness sensors in the past that those issues have any bearing on this. When B&M created the flying coasters, they did a computerized harness check and those things were down CONSTANTLY while the bugs were worked out of the system. None of those rides - nor any B&M for that matter - have ever ejected anyone. If the lady stated that she didn't feel safe in the ride before she was sent out, then she joins the ranks of dozens of people who make the same claim every day. Your checks is what ensures that they are safe, or should be. Again, this means nothing. Most parks and chains are self-insured, including Six Flags, so the shutting down of any other rides is not ordered by the insurance company, unless you count that as the chain itself. At the end of the day, the ultimate goal of a park should always be to ensure that everything is as safe as possible, and this situation is no different. There is NOTHING worse than an accident to cause bad pub and stop people from coming, and with Six Flags being a chain, the effect can be like dominoes - just because the accident occurred at Texas doesn't mean it won't affect attendance at Great Adventure and Magic Mountain. It will. Watch the stock price on Monday and I bet you'll see a sizable dip, and I'm guessing it will affect the entire year's earnings. Cedar Fair will be in a similar situation, even though it wasn't at their park. It is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a park (for so many different reasons, the largest still being the loss of life), and so I have full faith that Six Flags will be putting a ton of time into getting to the bottom of this and then figuring out how it can be prevented for the future. After the Superman issue at Kentucky Kingdom, I know of many changes that Six Flags voluntarily implemented on their drop rides to ensure their safety. Some other time, I'd be happy to discuss harness theory, and how I am fascinated that we have all this new technology and ride harness systems are only scratching the surface of what they can do, but this isn't the time. What's done is done, and we can hope that moving forward it is solved so that a tragic accident like this doesn't happen ever again. ...oh, and one last thing, I'm sure that the government will use this as another example about how better government oversight would help prevent this stuff from happening. (I just saw it on the CNN article, for instance.) Just for the record, while I'm all for actually improving the safety standards, this simply wouldn't help anything. The biggest incentive for keeping the rides safe is what I mentioned above about how bad it is for a park from every angle if they don't, and because no state has enough amusement rides for there to be an inspector full time that just does that, the people that you put into those situations have no idea what they are looking at. Simply put, some government inspector isn't going to be a better authority on how to fix your shiny Intamin coaster than the people who work on it daily. While like I said above, I don't want to speculate, one thing I am positive of - additional government oversight would not have prevented this in any way. Edited July 20, 2013 by goatdan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasThrillSeekers Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 So sad. I feel so bad for the family, and the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailisun98 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Technically, roller coaster inflicted injuries are less than other amusement rides. So I wouldnt worry about RMC that much. They build great hybrid coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I wonder if the case is similar to this http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i0KmTMf0VVQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterjunkie1975 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 This is just heartwrenching news....I can only imagine what the people who witnessed the woman flying out of her seat are going through. Also..my prayers go out to the family who just had their lives ripped apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon8899 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Heard of this now - sad day! So far this isn't news here - even if a German manufacturer is involved. For the coasters: On the Hansa-Park Webcam I can see that Fluch - Launched Eurofighter - is running normally right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoast Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Having a lap bar only restraint meet your "gut" before your thighs is exactly how these accidents happen. How could you think you're secured by a LAP BAR if it is meeting at your stomach? If an obese person were to tuck their fat into the restraint once you experience negative G's or a shift in position, that fat will likely lift, leaving a sizeable gap between body and restraint. At Cedar Point the other day a large woman needed the effort of two ops to get the restraint closed and bucked on Raptor. She sat directly in front of me and it didn't even look like her buttocks was in the seat properly. I don't understand why they even allow it. If you can't secure your restraint yourself, you shouldn't be able to ride. That said, I am not implying this woman was obese and above scenario is what happened here. Only the investigation will determine the cause of this accident. Oh and Carmen Brown...any relation to Sweet Brown? Edited July 20, 2013 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaG Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 First of all, this is a horribly sad incident. Prayers to the family of the woman. Now, I can see a few different ways this could have played out- -The rider was overweight and barely fit into the restraint. -The rider overweight and somehow over-stressed the restraint. -The rider was any weight and was improperly restrained by the operator. -The rider was overweight (or heck, any weight) and sensors (I thnk NTAG has sensors based on what I've heard) gave a false positive that the restraint was locked. -The restraint could have been faulty. -The rider was improperly using the restraint. O.K., now let's go over the outcomes that this could come out with for the ride, and bear in mind some of these could be combined- -The cause is rider error or size. The ride stays identical or becomes more restrictive to larger people. -The cause is operator error, the operators involved are fired or given other jobs, and the ride is identical -Like the first two, the ride stays practically identical, but with extra stapling -The ride is trimmed to death (does NTAG slow on its MCBR by the way?) -The ride gets seat belts. -The restraints are replaced with new lapbars (or in a worst-case scenario, OTSRs, but why?) -The trains are replaced, either by Gerstlauer or RMC trains. -The ride is reprofiled, with airtime-heavy parts being "tamed". -In an almost impossible twist, the ride is torn down. Just my $.02 on this tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapesLie Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Seriously this is the worst news to wake up to! That poor kid riding with his mother! This makes me want to cry. It really doesn't matter who or what was at fault (although it should still be addressed) a child just watched his mother die and that is heart breaking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Who is siting next to her during the ride? Her child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie200330 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Seriously this is the worst news to wake up to! That poor kid riding with his mother! This makes me want to cry. It really doesn't matter who or what was at fault (although it should still be addressed) a child just watched his mother die and that is heart breaking! This, along with the rest of the riders on that train. Prayers go out to all involved. That had to be a horrible feeling seeing it all unfold knowing you can't help...... That also had to be awful for the people in the station when the train came back and everyone realized what just happened...... Who is siting next to her during the ride? Her child? I believe they said the child was in the seat in front of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyRush Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Prayers go out to everyone involved or who saw it happen. -Robb i cant get over how these reports claim the lap bar didnt click. I know for a fact (as does everyone here) the only clicking with hydraulic locking systems is you buckling the seatbelt. Does it have a seat belt too or just the lap bar? Again thoughts out to those involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmullin Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 ^ On some coasters now they don't have seat belts, just the lap bars, not many, but some, like the B&M hypers and gigas, and Gerstlauer trains only use lap bars. Maybe now all coasters will require a seatbelt and lap bar or OTSRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) This report that Robb shared on the TPR FB has an eyewitness stating " when the train came back, the seat restraint was down." I rode NTAG in the summer of '12 and I stapled myself to the seat. The operator tightened my restraint but I gave it that extra push myself. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved. In my 8 1/2 years of being a ride operator I've witnessed my fair share of "incidents" but never anything fatal. This accident stresses the pertinent role that operators play in the safety of the guests riding their attractions. Edited July 20, 2013 by DJeXeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyRush Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Was she an overweight person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 At this point I wouldn't speculate ANYTHING or believe any eyewitness until a more official report comes out. I mean, eyewitness are SWEARING that the restraints make a "clicking" sound and we know that's all completely absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 ^Couldn't agree more. Made me cringe to read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philrad71 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Wow...haven't been on for a bit, but definitely some distressing news in the theme park industry as of late. So sorry to hear about these tragic accidents - it will be interesting to hear more once the investigations are complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krandor Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 That also had to be awful for the people in the station when the train came back and everyone realized what just happened...... The situation in the station had to be surreal especially for the probably teenagers running the ride. I would assume after they realized what happened they would have to get everybody out of the train they were loading to get the previous train in the station ASAP to get those people off which certainly would have had confused people... or even worse they send the next train off before they realized what happened on the last one. If those were teenagers running the ride, they are likely going to need some counseling regardless of if they are at fault or not along with probably just about anybody on that train. Sad situation but I would expect six flags is doing everything they can to help. Hopefully they will be able to quickly determine the cause and make whatever adjustments are needed. I expect we may see seat belts required on all rides wether completely needed or not as an extra percaution and if she was overweight possibly a policy change on larger passengers. I'm not implying either was the cause or could have prevented it, but policy changes made after something goes wrong doesn't have to be related to the cause and seat belts in paticular I see being done just to make the general public feel better. We'll see though. I'm interested to see what they determine to be the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyRush Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Nice,now the NY Post now is spreading it didnt "click" more than one time. I dont think we will get a realiable source until the investigation is over and reported. http://m.nypost.com/p/news/national/texas_mother_front_didn_feel_safe_nXvuJlXLQx2n4nH2dnO71N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonR Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Gerstlauer's brochure for the trains confirm what we already knew: redundant hydraulic cylinders for redundancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krandor Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Nice,now the NY Post now is spreading it didnt "click" more than one time. I dont think we will get a realiable source until the investigation is over and reported. http://m.nypost.com/p/news/national/texas_mother_front_didn_feel_safe_nXvuJlXLQx2n4nH2dnO71N Media these days rarely does their own reporting but takes things mentioned elsewhere and repeats them. You are right they we likely won't know much until the report comes out. I am sure all Six Flags employees are under orders by corporate and possibly the police too not to talk to anybody and at this point I doubt any passengers want to talk either - most probably just want to forget and they may have been told by police not to talk too so they can control the information and try to stop rumors like this clicking thing from getting out. I don't think anybody is going to be talking under the investigation is done. Doesn't really help anybody involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgoZ Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Nice,now the NY Post now is spreading it didnt "click" more than one time. I dont think we will get a realiable source until the investigation is over and reported. http://m.nypost.com/p/news/national/texas_mother_front_didn_feel_safe_nXvuJlXLQx2n4nH2dnO71N One thing to consider is that with most media sources, the reporter is no more informed than the GP. Just because someone works or reports for a newspaper, doesn't make them any more informed about a subject they originally knew nothing about. I've learned many times, that nothing reported can be viewed as 100% true. From what I have heard, this was a larger woman, and if true, I have a good idea what happened as many on here probably do. However we can not comment until we know all the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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