Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[AmyUD06]

40 minutes ago, rachelmadcow said:

Yes you can. 

You can keep them out of the park, but you can't keep them from shooting people in the parking lot. 

[rachelmadcow]

26 minutes ago, AmyUD06 said:

You can keep them out of the park, but you can't keep them from shooting people in the parking lot. 

... why would they be in the parking lot lol. If theyre in the parking lot they would only be there to go to the park, which they cannot afford, so... why would they be in the parking lot? 

 

[rachelmadcow]

22 hours ago, AmyUD06 said:

I'm convinced that was just a scheme to increase their stock prices and was never a serious offer. I hope LOL. 

They probably wanted to buy CF to gain access to their superior management and strategies. That is a long tradition in business, it's easier to just buy what you don't have than develop it internally. 

You can see this in the Volkswagen deal with Rimac, they gave Rimac Bugatti because it was cheaper for VW to do that than develop their own product line similar to Rimac's. 

[Bamwa]

On 8/17/2022 at 8:48 PM, prozach626 said:

Fucking ridiculous amount to charge for parking.

yes remember when places wanted you to park there to you know....spend money there? Unfortunately, like TicketBastard, they won't ever put that genie back in the bottle. 

[prozach626]

3 hours ago, rachelmadcow said:

Cedar Fair manages to retain CP as a destination park, luring people from around the globe really. If what you're saying mattered then Cedar Fair would have made i305 taller than MF. I think they only made Fury taller bc the layout was supposed to work in a certain plot of land, making it shorter would've messed up their plans to have the ride go under the pathway into the Trombone turn or whatever its called. 

St Louis is a wonderful city and I love the Ozarks, but they simply do not have the customer base to support a cutting-edge ride. There is no reason why STL should get anything similar to SFMM. Ex; SFMM should get a 200' Mack powersplash and SFSTL can get an all-new Intamin rapids ride. Something like that. 

You're actually making me do this; 

PINNACLE - International Draw, GP plan vacations to visit exclusively. Only cutting-edge brand new rides

- SFMM

PRESTIGE - Super-Regional Draw, GP will go out of their way to include this park in their vacation. Cutting edge brand new rides only after SFMM receives it

- SFOT

- SFOG

- SFGAM

- SFGADV

- SFOM 

- LARONDE 

PREMIER  - Regional Draw, GP won't go out of their way to go to this park and will go in their free-time. Virtually no cutting edge brand new rides unless relocated from a Prestige or Pinnacle park. 

- SFSTL 

- SFDK 

- SFFT

- SFNE 

OBVIOUSLY I dont have access to SF internal documents, this could be shifted around depending on attendance. We also need the zip codes of those who attend to get a better idea of the regional impact. 

 

I feel like maybe we were on the same page, with a miscommunication.

*Off topic*

But, I disagree with one point. Saint Louis is a shithole. I live here. It is FAR from a wonderful city.

Crime rates, depression, happiness, infrastructure... Aside from a decent handful of attractions for tourists and locals, it's a nice place to visit, but a bad place to live. We rarely go downtown, and we leave the general Saint Louis area by mid-afternoon. You have to be selective and smart about where you go, and what routes to take.

Building wonderful zoo's doesn't take away from the cancer that continuously spreads from the inner city, going north and east. It crosses the river into one of the most dangerous areas in the country being East Saint Louis. People keep moving further and further away from the city, just to get away from the growing chaos. Remember, we were the beginning of the nationwide anti-police riots. It didn't escalate because it was in a sleepy area. It escalated, because it was already in a war zone, and the incident was a spark to make the fire.

I just started a job with a 10k pay cut away from the North Saint Louis area. It's a nicer bedroom community, because it's more isolated. It chooses to have no entertainment district draw to bring people in. There's no draw for non-locals. It's where we're moving in a couple years.

The problem with my old job is that North Saint Louis came right across our bridge into Illinois, and made a bad town much worse. Kind of like when a soccer mom is driving home, and has a handful of criminals jump out and point AR rifles in her face trying to take her car. They came from right across the bridge, and went right back. The same place they come from when they steal cars, or play shoot-em-up on the weekends in the bar district. 20 years ago it hadn't made it this far, but it's there now.

My boots are on the ground here, so don't tell me otherwise.

*End rant.

[rachelmadcow]

3 minutes ago, prozach626 said:

I feel like maybe we were on the same page, with a miscommunication.

*Off topic*

But, I disagree with one point. Saint Louis is a shithole. I live here. It is FAR from a wonderful city.

Crime rates, depression, happiness, infrastructure... Aside from a decent handful of attractions for tourists and locals, it's a nice place to visit, but a bad place to live. We rarely go downtown, and we leave the general Saint Louis area by mid-afternoon. You have to be selective and smart about where you go, and what routes to take.

Building wonderful zoo's doesn't take away from the cancer that continuously spreads from the inner city, going north and east. It crosses the river into one of the most dangerous areas in the country being East Saint Louis. People keep moving further and further away from the city, just to get away from the growing chaos. Remember, we were the beginning of the nationwide anti-police riots. It didn't escalate because it was in a sleepy area. It escalated, because it was already in a war zone, and the incident was a spark to make the fire.

I just started a job with a 10k pay cut away from the North Saint Louis area. It's a nicer bedroom community, because it's more isolated. It chooses to have no entertainment district draw to bring people in. There's no draw for non-locals. It's where we're moving in a couple years.

The problem with my old job is that North Saint Louis came right across our bridge into Illinois, and made a bad town much worse. Kind of like when a soccer mom is driving home, and has a handful of criminals jump out and point AR rifles in her face trying to take her car. They came from right across the bridge, and went right back. The same place they come from when they steal cars, or play shoot-em-up on the weekends in the bar district. 20 years ago it hadn't made it this far, but it's there now.

My boots are on the ground here, so don't tell me otherwise.

*End rant.

I went to Wash U so STL will always be special to me. 

[prozach626]

I can understand that. In my early 20's the city seemed more innocent. I visited nice areas, and the blinders were secured firmly to my face. There are very fun areas in the city, but the raiders are always paying visits.

I'm 37 now, and I've seen a lot. The lawlessness has exploded since 2014. When I do to take my family into the city, I do so with law abiding protection and I'm always alert.

[bert425]

3 hours ago, rachelmadcow said:

You're actually making me do this; 

PINNACLE - International Draw, GP plan vacations to visit exclusively. Only cutting-edge brand new rides

- SFMM

PRESTIGE - Super-Regional Draw, GP will go out of their way to include this park in their vacation. Cutting edge brand new rides only after SFMM receives it

- SFOT

- SFOG

- SFGAM

- SFGADV

- SFOM 

- LARONDE 

PREMIER  - Regional Draw, GP won't go out of their way to go to this park and will go in their free-time. Virtually no cutting edge brand new rides unless relocated from a Prestige or Pinnacle park. 

- SFSTL 

- SFDK 

- SFFT

- SFNE 

OBVIOUSLY I dont have access to SF internal documents, this could be shifted around depending on attendance. We also need the zip codes of those who attend to get a better idea of the regional impact. 

 

how nice you can show your ignorance again. . . .

SFFT . . you are SO completely incorrect, that being right is not only in Greek to you, but it's in an unbreakable code.

1st park to get FreeSpin,  one of only two parks in the chain with Premier Spaghetti Bowl, the first park in the world to get RMC Single Rail Coaster (and the 1st park to have two RMCs), the 1st park to get a 7 across B&M Dive Coaster,  one of the 1st two parks to get the giant Pendulum - and the ONLY one to get a themed indoor queue for it.   

oh. . lets see. . how else are you wrong?  

SFFT is absolutely a destination park - with SWSA right up the loop, and the Alamo, Riverwalk, and San Antonio Zoo in the area as well - not to even bring up the only wooden shuttle coaster in the world less than 40 minutes away in Sequin?   

Yup. . . it's absolutely a destination, multi day stay in the San Antonio Area, and SFFT is a big part of that.

 

you're so wrong about so much, I just keep waiting for you to be correct about at least one or TWO things (even a broken clock is correct twice a day)

[rachelmadcow]

50 minutes ago, bert425 said:

how nice you can show your ignorance again. . . .

SFFT . . you are SO completely incorrect, that being right is not only in Greek to you, but it's in an unbreakable code.

1st park to get FreeSpin,  one of only two parks in the chain with Premier Spaghetti Bowl, the first park in the world to get RMC Single Rail Coaster (and the 1st park to have two RMCs), the 1st park to get a 7 across B&M Dive Coaster,  one of the 1st two parks to get the giant Pendulum - and the ONLY one to get a themed indoor queue for it.   

oh. . lets see. . how else are you wrong?  

SFFT is absolutely a destination park - with SWSA right up the loop, and the Alamo, Riverwalk, and San Antonio Zoo in the area as well - not to even bring up the only wooden shuttle coaster in the world less than 40 minutes away in Sequin?   

Yup. . . it's absolutely a destination, multi day stay in the San Antonio Area, and SFFT is a big part of that.

 

you're so wrong about so much, I just keep waiting for you to be correct about at least one or TWO things (even a broken clock is correct twice a day)

You must be from San Antonio. 
 

i figured i would get complaints for SFFT classiciation. 
 

Anyway its in Texas so SFOT has to have first choice over SFFT.  Thats that.  SFOT is the 1st Six Flags 

If anything all youve done is prove my point about the disjointed nature of six flags installations. 

Ex; SFOT shouldve gotten a large b&m dive and SFFT could get a large Gerstlauer Infinity.

 

the whole point of doing it this way is to encourage GP to visit at least SFMM and your regional park. If not visit 3 or 4 Six Flags. EX: SFOT SFFT SFMM SFSTL

[KBrylczyk]

4 hours ago, rachelmadcow said:

Cedar Fair manages to retain CP as a destination park, luring people from around the globe really. If what you're saying mattered then Cedar Fair would have made i305 taller than MF. I think they only made Fury taller bc the layout was supposed to work in a certain plot of land, making it shorter would've messed up their plans to have the ride go under the pathway into the Trombone turn or whatever its called.

...then a whole lot of extra BS...

I swear every post I see from you kills more brain cells in my head. Also, for the love of all that is holy, use the multiquote.

[rachelmadcow]

 

2 minutes ago, KBrylczyk said:

I swear every post I see from you kills more brain cells in my head.

Why are you even reading it? 

[rachelmadcow]

4 minutes ago, KBrylczyk said:

I swear every post I see from you kills more brain cells in my head. Also, for the love of all that is holy, use the multiquote.

No

[bert425]

1 hour ago, rachelmadcow said:

You must be from San Antonio. 
 

I'm not.

 

and you are COMPLETELY incorrect on everything else you say. . as usual.

if you think that SFOT is the crown jewel, or even a better park in ANY way/shape/form than SFFT?  you simply haven't been to the park in more than a decade.  Period.

 

[TEDodd]

5 hours ago, bert425 said:

and you are COMPLETELY incorrect on everything else you say. . as usual.

I think you missed the point (not that I agree with it).

The tiering is not how it is today. It is a plan for the future. How to move forward with the parks.

 

I think SFoT should be the biggest and best of the bunch as it's the original park. It's not currently though.

 

Then again I think Disneyland should be that for Disney, yet it's not either.

 

[tndank]

Some sales going on today for "annual memberships" and the 2 meal dining plan appears to be returning ($135 I think). GAdv seems to be updating their site today. Mexico has been advertising today for a big sale.   At Gadv $155 gets you into all 6flags parks. 

[Manic Monte]

8 hours ago, TEDodd said:

I think you missed the point (not that I agree with it).

The tiering is not how it is today. It is a plan for the future. How to move forward with the parks.

 

I think SFoT should be the biggest and best of the bunch as it's the original park. It's not currently though.

 

Then again I think Disneyland should be that for Disney, yet it's not either.

 

But yeah, being the original park isn't enough of a reason. It's the parks that will get the best return on investment.  Disneyland is the original,  but isn't anywhere near the destination of Florida or Paris.

[DirkFunk]

On 8/18/2022 at 5:57 PM, Manic Monte said:

There is a certain amount of reality in Play here as well. You can't offer a better product without raising prices, and you can't raise prices with offering a better product.  So what do you do? Nothing? Keep selling cheap season passes and a cheap experience?

Yes. That's what they probably should do. Their periods of profitability come from acting as regional amusement/theme parks that cater to the people in the community, regardless of whether or not they are of sufficiently high incomes for the current CEO. Ask yourself a legitimate question looking at this thread: What do you think it would take to get someone like prozach626 to go more frequently to SFStl or even downtown St. Louis? Like really, what would it take? I don't think it would be accomplished in a period of less than multiple years and with zero guarantee of repeat visitorship once you get whatever it is you have planned done. 

 

On 8/19/2022 at 12:39 PM, Manic Monte said:

Well the CEO has access to more information about the parks than we do.

 

Having access to more metrics doesn't mean you're doing a good job! Using the example of Shapiro here as he did literally this exact same plan in the mid-2000s; Shapiro's time as head of Six Flags ended in bankruptcy. Any of us could run Six Flags into bankruptcy. It's like finishing with an 0-17 record in the NFL and expecting leniency from ownership when any human being could have accomplished the same end result.

[coasterbill]

What a clusterfuck.

rachelmadcow has been given a timeout. If anyone continues this conversation without doing it in an adult, civil way the same thing will happen to them. Why is everyone so pissed off about everything all the time lately? Relax...

[SF3582]

Hate to think this.. aren't the partnership buyout agreement due dates coming soon for SFOT and SFOG? Could this be a "run the place down and lower the buyout costs" master plan? Something does not seem right about all this. Then again- the CEO did come from Spirit Airlines so maybe this plan does seem logical to him. IDK,

[Manic Monte]

48 minutes ago, DirkFunk said:

Yes. That's what they probably should do. Their periods of profitability come from acting as regional amusement/theme parks that cater to the people in the community, regardless of whether or not they are of sufficiently high incomes for the current CEO. Ask yourself a legitimate question looking at this thread: What do you think it would take to get someone like prozach626 to go more frequently to SFStl or even downtown St. Louis? Like really, what would it take? I don't think it would be accomplished in a period of less than multiple years and with zero guarantee of repeat visitorship once you get whatever it is you have planned done. 

 

 

 

You can be a regional theme park and still offer a much better experience than SF has the last 20 years. It takes time and doesn't happen overnight. Look at the former Paramount Parks now under Cedar Fair? Kings Island,  once not much better that your typical Six Flags park, is now one of the countries best. You think that happened after a year? 

 

I don't agree. I DON'T think the answer is to remain a cheap chain. These parks (especially the big 5) have so much more potential than that.

[prozach626]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:04 AM, TEDodd said:

I think you missed the point (not that I agree with it).

Yeah... I think we all did............

The tiering thing has been there for years as a part of their actual business strategy. At one point, not so long ago, it was corporate's plan to make some large improvements to SFSTL and bump it up into the next of like 3 or 4 tiers, but clearly that didn't work out.

[coasterbill]

Dining plans and back, you need to go through the process of pretending to buy one of the new passes to get it to pop up.

[Jew]

1 hour ago, Manic Monte said:

You can be a regional theme park and still offer a much better experience than SF has the last 20 years. It takes time and doesn't happen overnight. Look at the former Paramount Parks now under Cedar Fair? Kings Island,  once not much better that your typical Six Flags park, is now one of the countries best. You think that happened after a year? 

 

I don't agree. I DON'T think the answer is to remain a cheap chain. These parks (especially the big 5) have so much more potential than that.

I don’t actually believe they will make the investment that is required to become a more premium product. I can only speak for SFMM, but their pay/benefits package for staff is still nowhere near the top of the industry or even the local area for that matter.  They just half assed the opening of Wonder Woman and the DC area. Can’t even remember the last time any of their rides ran at full capacity.
 

If the CEO is serious about it, it will require a massive culture/budget change within the company to actually be a more premium experience instead of just raising prices and saying you are a premium product.

Since I don’t think they are actually serious about it, I’m of the opinion they should just stick to being cheap and find better ways to squeeze money out of people once they are inside the park.  Make people think they are getting a good value even though you are still marking things up like crazy (say, like the cheap souvenir bottle refills) and I bet that would make them more revenue than pretending they are a premium brand…

[KBrylczyk]

3 hours ago, Manic Monte said:

Disneyland is the original,  but isn't anywhere near the destination of Florida or Paris.

I'm curious how you came to mention Paris.  The latest data I can find is from 2020 and Paris is ranked 17th in most visited parks in the world.  Disneyland is number 12 with over 1.5 million more annual visitors. In 2019, a normal year pre-covid, Disneyland (rank #2 on earth) had almost DOUBLE the attendance of Paris (rank #17, unchanged).

Tokyo, Shanghai, even friggin Chimelong Ocean Kingdom are ranked higher than Paris.

2 hours ago, DirkFunk said:

Any of us could run Six Flags into bankruptcy. It's like finishing with an 0-17 record in the NFL and expecting leniency from ownership when any human being could have accomplished the same end result.

At least in the NFL you get first draft pick for being the worst.  Six Flags gets Larson Loops.

[Manic Monte]

47 minutes ago, Jew said:

I don’t actually believe they will make the investment that is required to become a more premium product. I can only speak for SFMM, but their pay/benefits package for staff is still nowhere near the top of the industry or even the local area for that matter.  They just half assed the opening of Wonder Woman and the DC area. Can’t even remember the last time any of their rides ran at full capacity.
 

If the CEO is serious about it, it will require a massive culture/budget change within the company to actually be a more premium experience instead of just raising prices and saying you are a premium product.

Since I don’t think they are actually serious about it, I’m of the opinion they should just stick to being cheap and find better ways to squeeze money out of people once they are inside the park.  Make people think they are getting a good value even though you are still marking things up like crazy (say, like the cheap souvenir bottle refills) and I bet that would make them more revenue than pretending they are a premium brand…

SFMM has never had good leadership that sticks around more than a year. Everytime they do the company promotes them (or runs them off). Look no further than Jeffrey Seibert at Fiesta Texas for what great leadership can do for a park.  I hate the word Premium. That's not what SF should be aspiring to. Quality is a better word. They should be modeling Cedar Fair, not Disney/Universal.

While I don't agree with prices being raised so much and so quickly,  I do agree with the new CEO that the culture needs a face-lift.  I've always hated the notion that the cheap, non spending, membership holding teen is the guest they should be courting. That any lousy guest is fine as long as they're clicking the turnstyle.