Arrows, Arrows, Arrows.....

[cfc]

Thanks. That's very interesting. I haven't ridden many arrows and wasn't a fan of the ones I did. This ride, however, is probably the now defunct coaster I would like to ride at least once.

 

And ride it only once, you would have.

 

Although, to be fair, one of my nieces really liked Drachen Fire back in the day.

Edited September 22, 2014 by cfc

[rcjp]

Thanks. That's very interesting. I haven't ridden many arrows and wasn't a fan of the ones I did. This ride, however, is probably the now defunct coaster I would like to ride at least once.

 

And ride it only once, you would have.

Yeah at first I was just going to write "would like to ride it once" but, who knows, maybe I would have liked it.

[Geauga Dog]

Those older photos of the BGW Arrows are awesome! Thanks for sharing.

 

Another aspect of the early Arrows that I liked were what I call the lattice loop supports like what LNM and CP's Corkscrew have that were no longer being used by the early to mid-80's. I also find it interesting that no one else has tried doing the interlocked loops like what LNM has and what WOF's Orient Express had.

[bonsaiisuperstar]

The Bat. Nuff Said.

[Comeagain?]

- I learned from what I would consider a very reliable source that there was an error with the surveying in the early design process of the ride. Since it happened before any production started, the ride was mirrored as it was considered easier than re-surveying the land. One of the easiest things to point out about this is that the evac stairs/harness release pedals are on the wrong side. On almost every Arrow, it's on the left side, but on DF it was on the right as a result of this change.

 

Interesting. The original Corkscrew has the manual release pedals on the right side too. Wonder why that changed...

[Nickstroberg]

I LOVE Arrow coasters, a lot of enthusiasts talk down about how rough they can be, but I think it just adds character. Theres something so classic or nostalgic about an Arrow looper towering above a midway, think Vortex at KI, or Viper at SFMM. They looks so beautiful and timeless in an amusement park, and I can't imagine a world without them. Theres a few arrows I'm very interested in, if you've ridden them, please share

 

The first is Cyclone at Dreamworld, the layout looks pretty unique, and it appears to use trains similar to what was on Drachen Fire, anybody here experienced this beauty? What does it ride like? http://rcdb.com/1415.htm

 

And the second is the imaginatively named, Roller Coaster at Al-Sha'ab Leisure Park. The reason I'm interested in this one is the track type. It appears to use the track style that Tennessee Tornado uses, which I LOVE. So I'm curious how it rides. Has anybody ridden this guy? http://rcdb.com/1603.htm

If you have ridden either of these, PLEASE share!

[BDD27]

Arrow stands by far as my favorite coaster company. My top 3 roller coasters I have been on are all arrows. GADV's GASM, Kings Islands Vortex, and Busch Gardens Loch Ness Monster. Since losing my favorite, the Scream Machine, I have made it a goal to get out and ride as many as I can. Between the great drops, awesome loops, and other features such as beauty, rollback noise, layouts, etc. Arrows will always be my favorites. They gave me my obsession with coasters, and without them I do not know where I would be. Call me crazy, but I do not find them rough at all. The only rough spot I found on any of them is the bottom of LNM's first loop. TBH, I actually find some B&M's like the batman clones and Dominator to actually be more rough then arrows. I can only hope the remaining arrows live on. There is no other experience like them, and while some may hate them and others love them. Once that ever so familiar lift hill and rollback noise stops, there is going to be an emptiness. It will never be filled again and will only remain in our memories. I lost my favorite roller coaster to soon. There is an emptiness in Great Adventure now, my home park. It cannot be filled by any B&M. I just wish they could last forever.

[mike541x]

Is DF's layout designed by B&M or Arrow designed this based on B&M's style?

 

Drachen Fire was Ron Toomer 100% through and through, but received heavy guidance from the former director of planning at BGW. The B&M rumor started online around 2004-2005 when someone noticed that if you looked at DF from a certain angle, it sorta resembled Kumba a bit, and that the supports are more streamlined that Arrow. They took that concept, and ran wild with it to the point that even that horrendously misinformed Wikipedia article on the ride claims it was B&M. I personally have asked Larry Giles, Ron Toomer, and Claude Mabillard about this on three separate occasions, and all claimed it is 100% false. I am also not the only person who has done this. Also, the supports really are nothing at all like B&M supports, and are fairly one of a kind to just this ride.

 

Now some fun trivia about Drachen Fire you might not know!

 

- The first concept Toomer presented to Busch was a HUGE footprint, and would have been very similar to Shockwave/GASM in layout. Busch rejected it and asked for something more compact and streamlined. In the Nova special where they show the design/construction process of the ride, you can allegedly see Ron Toomer penciling out the initial concept design.

 

- The trains were designed in tandem with members of BGW R&D, as were the support structures. Drachen Fire's trains had tracer lights on them at Busch's request (and by the way, LNM also used to have them for a brief time in the 80s!) The two other arrow coasters built with the DF style trains ditched the lights after a bit because they were VERY problematic, but Busch kept them the whole way since it was their brainchild. The lights ran on an independent battery system inside the cars, and if I recall (granted it was 20 years ago), they were low CC motorcycle batteries.

 

- I learned from what I would consider a very reliable source that there was an error with the surveying in the early design process of the ride. Since it happened before any production started, the ride was mirrored as it was considered easier than re-surveying the land. One of the easiest things to point out about this is that the evac stairs/harness release pedals are on the wrong side. On almost every Arrow, it's on the left side, but on DF it was on the right as a result of this change.

 

- Apparently in the the non-mirrored run, the lift would have gone closer to the Wolf village and the wrap around corckscrew would have dove down by the Wolf's mid course brake run. Also, the Wolf village was re-done during DF construction to be full buildings, where as before they were just facades.

 

- The grand opening was a grand flop. The ride's computer had a fault that took days to solve, so all the footage you see on various specials of people lining up to ride was actually of them waiting for nothing. Comedian Dana Carvey came out to help open the ride, and rumor has it he agreed to do it for free as long as he got to be the first public rider, but they never got it working before he had to leave. I always wonder if he ever made it back out to ride. He is apparently a huge coaster enthusiast.

 

- Drachen Fire had traditional Arrow rollbacks for the 92' season, but the lift chain was much faster than most arrows. During testing they weren't satisfied with the speed the train was navigating the first corkscrew and up'd the speed, making the classic Arrow rollbacks even louder. It apparently was waking people up in neighboring houses when they did early morning testing, so starting in 93 they had a one-of-a-kind silent rollback on the trains. It basically stayed in the up position unless the train started to roll back, at which point gravity pulled it down and locked it into place.

 

- When DF originally closed, the plan was to modify the trains. However after deciding the track was the bigger culprit to the problem they decided to sell it.

 

- More than one park offered to buy DF, but no one was willing to pay the asking price ($4.5 million, for a used ride that cost $4million to build...)

 

- DF almost re-opened for the 2002 season. In 2001 they actually did a full track inspection, green tagged a train, and even loaded it up with load testers to cycle for a while. But when they put more advanced g-force testers in it, it was outside the realm of acceptability in the lateral G area.

 

- The fact that the ride bashed people around ultimately was only a part of the closing equation. Something people often forget is that when a ride bashes you around, it also bashes itself around. The maintenance cost on DF was probably massive, which BGW probably wouldn't like even if it had high ridership, which in it's current state, it did not.

 

- I'm told by a friend that was working that day that someone got hurt on the last day of operation which is why there's such an obscure mid-July last day for this ride.

 

It's a real shame. I loved that ride. If I ever win the lottery, I'm donating a replica to BGW that is modernized and has heart-lined track and better entrances to the inversions so it can live on! ...(if only).

 

Very interesting facts. I knew about some of them (I've had an obsession over this ride for a while), but others are new to me. One thing that has been bothering me is whatever happened to Drachen Fire's trains. Only three other rides have these trains, Canyon Blaster (Adventuredome), Cyclone (Dreamworld), and Corkscrew (Toshimaen). I had originally thought Corkscrew got them and replaced the older ones, but they've been on the ride before DF was even torn down.

 

Oh yeah, I'd love to see LNM with tracer lights, never knew they had them.

[Sharman19]

I really am a fan of Magnum Xl-200, but there is one gripe I have with it. The lap bars. They only come down on your legs, and they hurt if the ride-op puts it down too tight, but you have to love the insane ejector airtime! I also like the Bat @ Kings Island. (current one) I just ride Corkscrew @ Cedar Point just for whatever. It is a little rough, but it isn't unbearable. Vortex @ Kings Island, I like it's weird layout, but it is terribly rough!

[coasterbill]

Vortex @ Kings Island, I like it's weird layout, but it is terribly rough!

 

The turn into the mid course on Vortex is just hilariously bad. Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 has smoother transitions than that. I rode it with my girlfriend earlier this year who's pretty soft spoken but as we were coming up to that awful coat hanger turn that's so tight it would make a wild mouse proud I just heard her yell "Oh F**K that". I think she spoke for everyone on the train.

[MagnumFreak25]

I really am a fan of Magnum Xl-200, but there is one gripe I have with it. The lap bars. They only come down on your legs, and they hurt if the ride-op puts it down too tight, but you have to love the insane ejector airtime!

 

Ya the lap-bars do need some extra padding but I really don't want the park to replace the whole train, I've always really like it's design. Anyway the CP ops seem to have stopped stapling you on most rides. A lot of the time they don't even push down and will just make sure it's locked.

[DrachenfireOP]

The turn into the mid course on Vortex is just hilariously bad. Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 has smoother transitions than that. I rode it with my girlfriend earlier this year who's pretty soft spoken but as we were coming up to that awful coat hanger turn that's so tight it would make a wild mouse proud I just heard her yell "Oh F**K that". I think she spoke for everyone on the train.

 

I think this speaks volumes to the state of the coaster world to where it is today. I think in 1987 more people viewed coasters as "something to conquer," so while you might complain of a headache when you got off, you weren't put off by it because "what do you expect? It was a roller coaster!" I also think a lot of the hate Mr. Toomer gets about his coat hanger (which wasn't a coat hanger by the way, it was no. 2 wire!) comes from people spoiled by the computer-designed age. I'm noticing more and more that people viewing coasters as "a thing to conquer" less and less, even in the GP. I'm not bashing the computer design age, it's AWESOME, but I also don't think it's fair to compare apples to oranges the way people compare an Arrow from the 80s to an Intamin of 2012.

 

I don't get on an Arrow expecting a smooth, fun ride. I expect to do battle with it, and that's half the fun! Of course I understand that I am in the minority, and it will ultimately lead to the end of these old coasters, but from an enthusiast standpoint, I like to know what I'm getting on will do more than just lift me up high and go fast!

 

I chuckle just as hard when people complain about old B&M coasters like Raptor or Batman. To me, that was when B&M was doing it right. I've been on a few newer B&M's recently that were so smooth, and the loops so large, that they weren't really very thrilling at all. I miss tight loops plastering me to the seat, and unexpected turns!

[ejot]

I think the suspended Arrows are some of their best work, and would like to know more about what look to have been two of the most intense versions, Eagle Fortress at Everland and Hyabusa at small park called Tokyo Summerland (mostly an indoor water park).

 

The TPR ride POV video for Eagle Fortress looks INSANE, but unfortunately the ride has apparently been SBNO for well over five years. I wonder why? - seems like it won't run again, but odd that no demo has happened? Does anyone know background or latest info? I really wish I could have the chance to ride this coaster!

 

Hyabusa is even more mysterious. It was the fastest suspended, and by far the tallest/biggest drop. There are some pics from a 2004 Japan trip but apparently it was demolished after an accident in 2005. I can't find any more infos on that, or any ride POV video. Either would be awesome.

[Diamondbacker27]

Why did Drachen Fire close anyways?

[cfc]

Well, I can't speak for others, but when I first rode Drachen Fire, I exited the ride with a throbbing headache, aching jaw, queasiness, and two huge bruises on either shoulder.

 

For me, that's reason enough.

 

That being said, the ride did have its fans.

[CPmillenia94]

I love the way arrow track-work is so organic, each ride made by arrow has so much character. You will almost never two transitions that look exactly the same, even if they are usually poorly shaped. I always look forward to riding a new arrow because its such a different experience from a typical steel coaster. Its almost the missing link between the hand made track-work of wooden coasters and the mathematical precision of modern steel coasters. Since my head is above the restraints, I never get headbanging and rather enjoy the rough parts that I have to brace myself. They are never actually 'painful' per se, but more just comical and awkward feeling. One of my favorite parts of ANY coaster is the entrance and the slow corks on anaconda, which just feel so 'wrong' in every way. Most coasters nowadays are simply too right feeling to the point where it sometimes gets boring. Im very upset that I never got to ride GASM when I was there before it was demolished just so I know what it was like. I will kick myself over that forever..

[Condor]

After my latest trip...

 

1. Magnum XL-200

2. X2

3. Thunderation

4. Loch Ness Monster

5. The Bat/Flight Deck/Top Gun

 

Count me in as another member of the Loch Ness fan club after finally riding it. It was only jarring in one place near the pullout from the first loop. Otherwise it was entirely enjoyable and even comfortable for an Arrow.

[cfc]

Im very upset that I never got to ride GASM when I was there before it was demolished just so I know what it was like. I will kick myself over that forever..

 

I kicked myself for riding GASM.

[GwaziBSRider1]

Magnum is my favorite Arrow, but Loch Ness Monster is an EXTREMELY close second. Honorable mentions go to Big Bad Wolf (RIP), Viper, Vortex, Dragon Mountain, Adventure Express, and Thunderation.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

My very first big coaster was Thunderation. It's perhaps a bit unfortunate, though, that I rode the best mine train first, as none of the rest quite measure up. I got to ride it again last weekend, and 20 years on, it's sill great. When properly cared for, these rides can still be fantastic.

[tarheel1231]

I think Dahlonega Mine Train at SFOG is my favorite mine train. Carolina Goldrusher would be better if there were more trees around it.

[cwgator]

^^Well there were before you were born...lol

[805Andrew]

I gotta give props to Arrow for pushing the envelop over the years. First tubular steel, first mine train, first corkscrew, first multi looper, first hyper coaster, first 7 looper, and first 4D coaster. They went bankrupt building one of my favorite rides (and my favorite Arrow): X2.