Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[prozach626]

I think you're getting a little crazy with the "What ifs." PP is most likely never coming back in any way, shape, or form of the original ride, let alone being enhanced. Let's come back to earth now and put away the MS paint for a while.

 

On a side note, I always thought the tower looked kind of cool and eerie. Without trying to sound like a nerd, it reminded me a lot of this:

 

[GayCoasterGuy]

What if they named it Lion's Prowl. I bet they'll do it if they keep it for Splashin' Safari.

 

This is interesting and a fun name!

 

I think you're getting a little crazy with the "What ifs." PP is most likely never coming back in any way, shape, or form of the original ride, let alone being enhanced. Let's come back to earth now and put away the MS paint for a while.

 

I vote to keep doing it! The "what ifs" keep it interesting around here... to a certain point anyway. Besides, parks sometimes actually do something that IS really interesting (but mostly in Europe.)

 

The trees being kept around Thunderbird are certainly interesting, worthy of being called a "feature." (Nothing against Cedar Fair )

[ZeroGravity55]

While I do like speculating about what might happen with PP's former area, I do think it's unrealistic to think that the tower or any form of the original ride is going to be brought back to life other than the station. From my understanding, the problems ride had weren't necessarily mechanical, but more or less the rides senors very over-sensitive, which led the ride getting shut down for basically no reason most of the time. I think if they had plans to reopen the original ride or revamp it into something like Divertical, the tower would have stayed, since there was nothing wrong with it mechanically. I think a big question the park needs to answer is if they want PP's area to be in the water park, or if they want it to go in Thanksgiving. They already have the sidewalks to make that area work for both parks. They could certainly do something like a Mack Splash Battle and have a dual entrance like they used to do for PP before they switched it to the water park only.

 

Speaking of PP, I found this video on Youtube, and at one time, it appears the splashdown actually delivered as promised during it's first season. I'm wondering what happened? I'd never seen it deliver a splashdown this big before this video.

 

[GayCoasterGuy]

I would agree that PP will never come back, but it's fun to imagine things

 

Parks do surprising things. I'm still surprised Holiday World went with a B&M. It looks like they are gonna pull it off very classy, too! I wouldn't expect any less!

[FaithPlus1]

Whatever happened to Pilgrim's Plunge?

 

It died

[ZeroGravity55]

Parks do surprising things. I'm still surprised Holiday World went with a B&M. It looks like they are gonna pull it off very classy, too! I wouldn't expect any less!

 

As am I, but I agree with you, everything about Thunderbird is being done the right way. I'm really starting to get this feeling that the park is going to take on a new element of awesome if they start putting this much detail into every single project like they have the last two years. I kind of feel like they're trying to align themselves at a level where they can start competing with Dollywood. Sounds crazy, I know, but they're really pushing their marketing further south and the amount of detail in last years projects and this years project is somewhat on a Dollywood level.

[Raven Maven]

^ Today would have been Will Koch's 53rd birthday. Your comment means the world to Lori and their three adult children. Thank you. (Miss that guy!)

[DanTheBooker]

I would agree that PP will never come back, but it's fun to imagine things

 

Parks do surprising things. I'm still surprised Holiday World went with a B&M. It looks like they are gonna pull it off very classy, too! I wouldn't expect any less!

 

I agree about the pulling it off classy and not expecting anything else from HW. Completely right.

 

 

Now, was I surprised they went with a B&M launched wing coaster. Oh yeah. But a B&M. No. To me, they were the front runners in my mind the whole time (though if Proslide did a steel coaster, I'd bet Rick would have got the contract). Reason for not being surprised by B&M... One word. Reliability. Plain and simple. A new coaster is always a big deal, especially for a small park. Even more so when it's a small park's first steel coaster. Holiday World wants to make sure they'll have minimal (if any) downtime. And long term, B&Ms are time tested. Sure the launch is a first, but from a tested vendor with B&M putting their name on it. I also think a park, specifically a small non-corporate park has a lot to gain in the "making a statement" department by going with B&M

[ZeroGravity55]

^ Today would have been Will Koch's 53rd birthday. Your comment means the world to Lori and their three adult children. Thank you. (Miss that guy!)

 

Hard to believe he's been gone four years now. I'm sure he would be very proud of everything his wife, kids, and President Matt have accomplished. I go back and think about all the stuff that was said when his wife and kids got control of the park. It was never about the money, it was always about carrying out Will's vision and dream. Now that this vision and dream is being carried out, you wish he could be here to see it. If he was here, he'd probably sit back and smile, but I think we all know he'd already be planning the parks next big project that would turn the industry on it's head once again.

[tarheel1231]

Happy birthday Will!

[HWFan]

Now that they finished the loop, I like how they shifted the construction cam back to the right. I can't believe how fast all of the buildings in the background are going up. It'll be interesting to see the station go up because of just how big and themed it is.

 

In keeping with everyone's comments about how they seem to be truly continuing with Will's vision, I completely agree. When I was watching the announcement video and saw the renderings of the paths and design/layout of the new area, immediately thought of some of the concept art that was released for the Thanksgiving section when it was announced in 2005. It was just cool to see the style of Will's vision for 2006 carried on by his daughter's for 2015. Thanks to the Way Back Machine internet archive website and a couple coaster sites that still have everything there from a decade ago, I was able to find some of the concept art.

 

The more natural curves and twists of the paths rather than just a straight path with asphalt do so much in terms of theming, even if just subconsciously. I'm not trying to put down how Thanksgiving ended up in any way (especially because at least the paths are so clean). I know it was an absolutely huge undertaking for the park and showed how they were willing to invest as much as they possibly could into the park. However, with the great new emphasis on theming the park, I've always wondered if they have any plans to go back and add some of the theming that was originally planned.

I believe either this image, or a similar one, was featured on the park maps for a period of time.

I find this image of the planned layout for Thanksgiving to be the most interesting.

[Midgetman82]

Speaking of PP, I found this video on Youtube, and at one time, it appears the splashdown actually delivered as promised during it's first season. I'm wondering what happened? I'd never seen it deliver a splashdown this big before this video.

I'm betting the splash was too abrupt. Most shoot-the-chutes that create huge splashes also have huge lap-bars that riders are sort-of thrown into when the boat hits the water. Plus, the boat on Pilgrim's Girrafic Plunge lurched forward pretty hard when it slows down harshly.

[cfc]

^I rode it for the first time in spring 2009 and was surprised at how smoothly it slowed down in the splash pool; but I have been on other splash-boat rides where it feels like you've just slammed into a brick wall.

[ThemeParkJunkie51290]

I'm so amazed that Thunderbird is taking shape so quickly! I noticed from the webcam that buildings are being constructed now. This is going to be a great addition to the park. Do anyone know how busy opening weekends are? I plan on going Apr. 26 which is that Sunday for my first time to the park. Since Thunderbird is going to be the "new it thing," I'm pretty sure the park is going to be more crowded than ever.

[GwaziBSRider1]

^ Typically the day after opening at any park is fairly light. Check the park's 2015 calendar when it's posted. They typically highlight the dates when they're expecting a high crowd.

[ZeroGravity55]

I think the first weekend is going to be a tricky one to predict in 2015, because this is the first time they're opening in April. I'd expect the park to be packed on Saturday, especially for a day where the waterpark isn't open. If they hold media day Friday before the park opens, and they invite a lot of people, like parks have been doing with their media days the past few years, I would expect some of those people to stay over and visit the park next day. That would only add to the crowds, but I would expect the crowds to die off by mid-day on Saturday. They're might be a morning rush on Sunday, but I'd expect it to be pretty light overall. Really, if you're going to visit the park and wanna do both HW&SS, I recommend getting to the park in May when both are open or early in June. If the weather next summer is in any way slightly warmer than it was this summer, the park will be absolutely packed from mid-June to when daily operation ends.

Edited October 24, 2014 by ZeroGravity55

[ratdogg68]

They are inviting Season Pass holders that Friday before the Park opens, I'll be there.

[ThemeParkJunkie51290]

^ Typically the day after opening at any park is fairly light. Check the park's 2015 calendar when it's posted. They typically highlight the dates when they're expecting a high crowd.

 

Thanks! I really hope the crowds wouldn't be to crazy that Sunday.

[ZeroGravity55]

However, with the great new emphasis on theming the park, I've always wondered if they have any plans to go back and add some of the theming that was originally planned.

 

I find this image of the planned layout for Thanksgiving to be the most interesting.

 

I missed this for some reason, but great finds! I actually do think they're following this concept in someway. Notice how the pathways start to break off to the right, I still think the Thanksgiving section will end up wrapping around the Hyena Falls complex and connect back to Thunderbird plaza. Obviously the changed waterpark boundaries weren't in the plans back in 2005, so part of me wonders if whatever uses up the PP area in the future will be for Splashin' Safari or Holiday World. They have the pathways to make either work, or both for that matter. To much of our disappointment, I think adding another big water park attraction in that area wouldn't be a bad idea and might actually be the right investment following a major roller coaster installment. It would help hold and sustain attendance and would allow them to build up the money needed to finish off the Thanksgiving section. Looking at how much land would needed to be developed to get them from The Mayflower, around Hyena Falls, and up to Thunderbird, they could take several years to develop it, which would allow them to market something new every year. Honestly, I kind of like that Thunderbird is sort of on it's own. It's so different from everything else and has it's own story to tell. Definitely a ride that is deserving of it's own plaza right now.

[HWFan]

^When I saw the renovation of the candy kitchen building with a lot of great theming, it made me hopeful that this would be the start of a trend to better theme new and existing buildings.

 

Now isn't Lauren (or Leah?) Koch's position something like the director of theming? Putting one of the top people in at Holiday World in that position seems to send a strong message that it's a top priority now. Maybe Paula can correct me if I'm wrong.

[RogueBird]

Paula, Is the Thanksgiving bridge going to be finally covered? Fingers crossed!

[ZeroGravity55]

^^ I believe you're right. I actually found this really cool article about the park, Thunderbird and the theming of the ride, and about where they wanna go in terms of the future.

 

http://www.blooloop.com/features/holiday-world-small-park-atmosphere-big-park-vis/30162#.VEsrnvnF-Sq

 

Here's some quotes I pulled from it:

 

Eckert agreed, “I’m very excited about our progress. Typically, with any of our projects it always seems like we’re always running behind our vendors and trying to keep up with them, and this time it’s the opposite – we’ve done a great job, and are staying ahead of the curve… as of now we are two weeks ahead of our production schedule … We’re very excited.

 

Eckert says, “We’re a family park, and we knew that when we added a steel coaster it couldn’t be something too extreme. We wanted it to be extreme, but to the point that families would still want to ride it. I have three small children aged from twelve to six and they’re all champing at the bit – my six-year-old’s not going to be tall enough… But knowing that, and knowing what we wanted, B&M [bollinger & Mabillard] came back and forth to us with various ideas, and we kept going back to them, saying OK, well, could we do this…? …Could we do that…? In the original design the coaster was a little under 3000 feet. We wanted to be able to claim that it was over 3000 feet long, so we asked them to make it just twelve feet longer so we could have that little statistic on our side… And so they did. We had a part in the design, but by far, they take all the credit for it. They were fantastic.

 

PGAV designed the landscape around the Thunderbird to resemble lush farmland, and wove a story encompassing the legend of the Thunderbird’s powerful flight through the forests and farmland of southern Indiana, which includes savagely gouged claw marks and the burns from lightning strikes in the fabric of the attraction’s main building, a traditional two-storey barn with stone silo. Riders will stand in line awaiting their turn around an authentic wagon on the ground floor, and the coaster will launch over their heads, adding to their anticipation.

 

Koch went on to outline the park’s aspirations: “Right now our goal here at Holiday World is to continue delivering the best guest experience possible, but one day I think we would like to become a destination. Right now we’re a local hot-spot: people love to come and visit for a day. We would love to turn it into a place where people want to come and visit for a week – to stay and explore everything we have to offer.”

 

"We are going to continue to grow. We’re set on about 110 acres total, and we have another 90 to develop, so we can almost double in size in terms of what we offer to our guests. We have to be very careful in doing that – we must make sure we maximise the guest experience. We want to become a big park, but we want to maintain that small park feel. And I think that will come through continuing the value proposition that we offer and continuing to offer the service that our families expect.

[nicman]

Do you think that Thunderbird will be an intense coaster like the old B & M's?

I think the work of Thunderbird is going so fast they will be done it way before the opening day.

[Moose]

I don't think the wingrider trains could handle the intensity of old style b&m's.

[prozach626]

 

PGAV designed the landscape around the Thunderbird to resemble lush farmland, and wove a story encompassing the legend of the Thunderbird’s powerful flight through the forests and farmland of southern Indiana, which includes savagely gouged claw marks and the burns from lightning strikes in the fabric of the attraction’s main building, a traditional two-storey barn with stone silo. Riders will stand in line awaiting their turn around an authentic wagon on the ground floor, and the coaster will launch over their heads, adding to their anticipation.

 

I know a lot of people like it, but I'm not much for the cheese of the legend of Thunderbird and all that... stuff... I just feel like it's not for my age group (And I feel it is not intended to be). Sorry, it's just not for me. I'm sure there will be plenty of people upset that I don't drink that koolaid.

 

That said, the themeing and attention to detail is what a lot of parks like SF have left out, but it looks like HW has gone the extra mile and nailed it. I don't care about an over the top story line, but the themeing, display, location of the queue, the close proximity to the trees, and all of the other factors are going to add up to a great overall experience. This is one of the few examples of a park really listening to average consumers as well as enthusiasts.

 

As for a previous poster, the ride will not be I305 intense, nor is it intending to be. What it will be is a smooth, fun, and overall an enjoyable experience that I feel even the B&M haters will want to ride over and over again. My best Guess is that this ride, in terms of B&M intensity, will be somewhere in the middle between B:TR and Patriot. I'm looking forward to it.

 

Side note... does HW sell beer? I can't remember, but I'm assuming no.