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Coney Island (Luna Park) Development Discussion Thread


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It's good that Cyclone is getting new track, now they'll have more sales on re-rides now.

 

I think GCI's Millennium Flyer trains would be good on the Cyclone since it reflects an older design.

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^But how similar? For some people it might go beyond just the appearance. I like the buzz bars, though the extra padding is bizarre and I'm not sure how much it really helps.

The re-tracking will definitely help. Smoothing out the transitions and crests would throw riders around less, and not be as, umm, painful (I don't know, like I said, I still need to get out and ride the blasted thing).

 

Isn't the padding just some foam duct-taped to the safety bar, anyway?

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^If I remember correctly, the back and sides of the car are pretty heavily padded and there is some padding in the front as well for your knees. Still managed to bash my knee though.

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I wonder if whatever they do will make it loose its ACE status? I am not sure what all the requirements are though for it to remain ACE. Not that anything to improve the ride, especially this title should stop them.

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If the coaster does not remain white, the foamers will murder everyone at GCI(I).

 

WTF?

 

Does anyone ever read anything more than the headline that's on the front page?
"As part of the final phase, we are looking into either refurbishing or replacing the Cyclone’s trains. Plans are not final, however, our vision is to keep the trains similar to the original design. When we are finished, the track and other ride systems will be state-of-the-art and will also meet current ride standards.”

 

You only highlighted the part about keeping trains similar, but not the part where there are considering replacing them.

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This is kind of depressing for me, because I have been wanting to ride the Cyclone in its original state (just to say that I did) for several years now. I guess I need to get out there in May and ride the thing before all the track gets completely replaced.

 

I think you missed the boat on that by about 40 years. The Cyclone has a completely steel structure, which I assume was done after it was condemned, refurbished and reopened in the early 70's.

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I wonder if whatever they do will make it loose its ACE status?

 

And how does someone loose a status? Does it start off tight and then gradually get looser???

 

Good one. Typing fast and missed that. Thanks for catching it Jeff

 

Anyways, my post was not saying I "hope they do not loss it". I am just curious on what would cause this if it happened in general. I believe Blue Streak at CP went through this. Again, just curious here.

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^^The Cyclone's structure has always been steel.

 

As for the refurbishment, I say bring it on if it makes the ride more enjoyable. The ride is historic, but being rough isn't part of its history. A retracking and refurbishment of the trains is ideal, but even getting new trains won't make the ride any less of a historic piece of Coney Island. It's a machine and unfortunately they don't last forever when they're used so often.

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^But how similar? For some people it might go beyond just the appearance. I like the buzz bars, though the extra padding is bizarre and I'm not sure how much it really helps.

The re-tracking will definitely help. Smoothing out the transitions and crests would throw riders around less, and not be as, umm, painful (I don't know, like I said, I still need to get out and ride the blasted thing).

 

Isn't the padding just some foam duct-taped to the safety bar, anyway?

 

But here's where we get confused between ROUGH and WILD in coasters.

 

A WILD coaster throws you around -- in a GOOD way. Even in its best days with perfect maintenance, the Coney Island Cyclone would be a wild coaster!

 

A ROUGH coaster hurts you in a BAD way. Usually it's the jackhammering feeling like being run over a washboard that comes with poor maintenance. Or that rough BANG when you hit a "pothole" at the bottom of one of the drops. Usually maintenance can fix a rough coaster.

 

What I'm concerned about is whether Zamperla and the city (who own the Cyclone) want to just get rid of the rough parts, or if they want to tame down the wild elements as well. I want the coaster to be less painful (with less jackhammering and fewer potholes), but I absolutely do NOT want it to throw me around less! That's part of what makes it the Cyclone! And what makes it such a great coaster. In other words, I want them to make it smoother, but keep it as wild as possible. Hopefully, GCI can accomplish this, but ultimately it's their job to do whatever the people who hired them want them to do.

 

As for ACE Coaster Classic status, I'd imagine that it would depend on what they do with new trains. If they get ratcheting lapbars, then it will lose its status, since fixed position lapbars are one of the primary criteria for a coaster being run in a "classic" fashion. Since the lawyers and insurance companies tend to like ratcheting lapbars, I imagine that there's a good chance it will lose this status. If so, I can't imagine that ACE wouldn't then award it its newer "landmark coaster" status, since the Cyclone is probably the most notable landmark coaster still standing, with only the possible exception of Leap the Dips.

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Like I said, I've never ridden it, so I really can't judge.

 

I'd think that the parts that GCI would re-profile would be the parts where there is a sudden spike in forces, such as before a turn.

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I'm also conflicted. I'm planning to finally ride it in June, and I wanted to experience it in all of it's rough/wild/classic glory. However, I'm sure GCI will do a great job, and the ride will be less painful than it is now, from the reports that I've heard. I hope the refurbishments can be done in a way that makes the experience more pleasant without sacrificing any of the unique and classic elements.

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Does anyone know the last time it was retracked? I wonder how many times it has been retracked in it's history.

 

I seriously hope they keep the original cars, or at least make new ones using the exact same design.

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This is kind of depressing for me, because I have been wanting to ride the Cyclone in its original state (just to say that I did) for several years now. I guess I need to get out there in May and ride the thing before all the track gets completely replaced.

 

I think you missed the boat on that by about 40 years. The Cyclone has a completely steel structure, which I assume was done after it was condemned, refurbished and reopened in the early 70's.

 

Actually, no, the Cyclone's support structure is NOT completely fashioned of steel. As with those other long-lost Coney legends –-- Thunderbolt and Tornado --- the Cyclone's taller uprights are indeed steel but wooden bents support many of the pullouts. Obviously, this is so the wood can absorb the tremendous forces generated by the heavy trains.

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Well, yeah, eff ACE is right... what I'm more curious about is the fact that the Cyclone is a National Landmark and what this reworking will do to that status. I had a friend who worked at an inn in the Rockies that was also a National Landmark and they were unable to renovate in order to become handicap accessible and that did have something to do with the original appearance of the structure and how it looked when it entered the registry. (Otherwise, they would have lost the status.) So, I would think in order to preserve the status of being a National Landmark GCI will have to tread carefully and lightly... and hopefully that's on their radar. But ACE can shove it.

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I wonder if whatever they do will make it loose its ACE status? I am not sure what all the requirements are though for it to remain ACE. Not that anything to improve the ride, especially this title should stop them.

 

Well, it depends on what all they do to it. Either way it will keep its landmark status because it will still be the Cyclone. However it may loss its ace classic status if they replace the train with a newer model. But as a member and a supporter of ace even I find the classic status rather pointless and really the parks appreciate it but they don't take pride in it like the landmark status.

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I support ACE as well, despite sometimes... as I said... feeling like they can shove it (I was mostly appalled that they revoked Blue Streak's classic status). Since I believe that was due to the replacement of the trains, I'd guess if the Cyclone lost its original trains it would likewise lose its ACE Coaster Classic status, but it holds a different prestige than Blue Streak, so you never know. It might take a little more to bereave it of its classic-ness, but ACE can be touchy about that stuff. (Again, Blue Streak.) It all seems a bit silly, really, since at a certain point parts need to be replaced... or at the very least, heavily repaired. Those Cyclone trains have made a lot of circuits.

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It all seems a bit silly, really, since at a certain point parts need to be replaced....

 

Well the point is to show appreciation for the few coasters who still run in their original state (Leap the dips, Cyclone, Jack Rabbit) which is becoming harder to find as safety standards change and insurance company's have their way. But agreed it is silly and I think the landmark status is enough.

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I understand the point of the ACE Coaster Classic designation and don't have a problem with it. I'm all for keeping traditional trains and restraints. Really the only issue I agree with is that a number of the coasters (not the Cyclone, of course) are so tame it wouldn't matter what lap bars they use.

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I mean, that much is true, the bigger issue here is one of maintenance. The last time I was on the Cyclone, which wasn't all that long ago, the trains were really groaning and creaking and shaking and rattling (moreso than they should, that is.) They could use a few bolts tightened here and there; whether or not they need to be replaced is not something I feel very strongly about or know that much about from a construction stand-point. I've given these current ones plenty of runs... they're just in sore need of some TLC, or if they are (mechanically, structurally) past that, replacement.

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