Six Flags Magic Mountain Mark Shapiro Interview

[Six Flags Addict]

Seriously, though, I didn't listen to the interview, but I'll say once again that I'm looking forward to the direction SFMM takes in the years to come. It will finally become the park it should always have been!

 

About the clone issue...I wish people would get off of that. When will you "clone haters" realize that the parks are built for the enjoyment of the general public---most of whom know absolutely nothing about similar rides in other parks.

 

Sorry to get...huffy...but even as an enthusiast, I have no problems with the same ride being at different parks. If it's a good ride, then who cares?

 

Eric

 

I agree.

 

For example, whenever Evel Knievel (spelling?) was announced, a lot of people on the sfstl.net forums were mad because it was a clone....even though it was thousands of miles away!

 

In my opinion, as long as the park has at least one good custom coaster, it is fine if they install a clone. From a business standpoint it is a smart move. Why would you pay for a custom design when you have a really good clone that you could install?

[nagro5]

Clones are just fine with me as long as they don't overuse them. For example, I think that they reused the Batman: The Ride design to many times but clones like Evil Knievel are great because there is not too many of them. But that's just my opinion. As long as people keep coming to a park I'm not complaining.

[alexinla]

^ So because there are 5 other Batman-The rides out there you would enjoy the one at SFMM less? Makes no sense, even from a coaster fanatic standpoint

[coasterbill]

Tell Mr. Shapiro to take those new vehicles he's getting over to Home Depot, and get some rocks to put under Scream, then cut a line in the pavement around the perimeter, plant some trees and you're good.

 

Seriously though, he knows his marketing. When he brings in flat rides he's going to bring in marketable flat rides. That way he only needs to build one a year and it will get people in the park.

[thrillgeek]

^ I agree. The idea with Scream just sounds funny to me though. They would never take the time to do that in a million years. That would be nice though

[nagro5]

^^^That's not what I said. I said that the design was overused and after you ride the same ride over and over that it can start to get old. But a ride like Evil Knievel will get boring a lot slower because the design is not scattered all over the country. I think that the Batman at SFMM is just as thrilling as the others but I think that it could be skipped sometimes because there a a lot of better rides at the mountain. Why waste some time on a roller coaster that I can ride somewhere else when I can ride a more unique roller coaster right now.

[coasterbill]

Because 99% of the people in the park don't know there are other Batman rides.

[alexinla]

^ EXACTLY!

[nagro5]

^^ You do have a point. I was just stating what I thought though.

[USCoaster]

Sorry for this post being a little bit long. It is a bit of a rant about both SFMM and the interview. Before I get started, I would like to thank Robb for doing this interview and posting it for us to listen to. I think Robb handled himself a lot better than Mark Shapiro did.

 

For all the positive response to the interview, I thought Mark Shapiro came off slightly arrogant and condescending. It was interesting to hear what he had to say about the park, but the entire time he came off sounding like he was trying to push the fact that "the previous management were idiots and I am so much better than them and I can do no wrong." I can't really argue with the previous management being idiots comments, but I don't think that he has done anything to support the second part of the statement.

 

So far, his decisions have led to the scrapping of two coasters, a freefall ride, and another flat ride. In place of the lost rides, SFMM is getting Thomas Town which will include a rethemed Goliath Jr., a new kids train ride (to replace the granny grand prix) and a water play area. (I may be missing another ride, but I'm not sure) If it is anything like the Thomas Town at SFDK, I think people will be disappointed because it will be nothing more than a slight improvement from what is currently there. I would have also liked to have seen it placed somewhere else in the park to spread out the family friendly rides.

 

The other major change that has been made at the park is the increase in general maintenance being performed. I think that some recognition should be given for the fact that company policy has been changed to include this as an important part of keeping the park looking good, but its hardly a revolutionary idea. The only reason such a big deal is being made about the fact that they are fixing the paint and the paths is because SFMM became very good at ignoring the prblem.

 

Right now, I think that some of the changes are a step in the right direction, but right now, the ride removals have just increased one of the major problems SFMM has had for years. There still aren't enough mid-sized rides to spread the crowds around. While I won't miss the Circus Wheel because it was never run at the proper speed to get the cars to actually spin, replacing it with a basketball game is a waste of a perfectly good space for a replacement ride. If you follow Mark's logic that Circus Wheel is something you can ride at any fair, how long till the Scrambler, Atom Smasher, Grinder Gearworks and Swashbuckler are gone?

 

From the pictures I've seen, the park looks better than it has in years. However for all the optimism people are expressing about this interview, I think it will take a couple years before I'm completely sold on the new direction the park is headed in. I think that a Tony Hawk style coaster would be a great addition to the park (although I think the theme is lame and will be very dated in a few years) but I think that a ride package from HUSS or some other company should be a priority for the park.

[SharkTums]

^I think that was very well said. I'm glad you noticed the slight attitude Shapiro had. Robb, Wes, and I also noticed, but we're giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

Like you said, it will take a couple of years to see if he really does have all the answers.

[Tiburon503]

Mark Shapiro must have attended the Steve Jobs School of PR. I haven't seen an RDF that powerful since Macworld. One point I'd like to make is Kieren Burke & Co. most certainly did NOT plop coasters down every place they see concrete. The Golden Kingdom, as well as Plaza De Carnival at SFGAdv., are some of the best themed sections found anywhere outside of Disney and Universal in North America. I think Looney Toons sections and the Hurricane Harbors installed during the Premier Parks era were great too. Even the surrounding area of Superman Ride of Steel at SFNE is decent. Six Flags Discovery Kingdom is the new management's lone standout.

 

The constant blame everything wrong chain-wide on older management strategy is becoming tired too. Shapiro has gone from stating "no more Goliaths" (a promise he's mostly kept true thus far), to returning to multiple coaster installs when his initial park strategies failed (stunt shows and in-park entertainment). In fact, most parks lack any shows and are removing "family" rides left and right without replacement. Where's the theming Shapiro spoke of? Where's the great family attractions (an enclosed spinning mouse does NOT fit that bill IMO)? Why aren't we seeing attractions like a "Buzz Lightyear" or "Reese's Cup Challenge" anywhere on the Six Flags radar (largely because Shapiro realized Burke's strategy of "plopping down coasters" did more for spiking attendance at cheaper costs). RedZone has also continued, "giving away the gate", and in some cases, damn near leaving it wide open with $15 admissions to the parks (cutting discounts and slashing overall pricing would be better overall with proper execution). These moves are being driven desperately to prop up attendance figures and hopefully spike in-park spending. Shapiro has also adopted the same strategy of excuses I believe he initially denounced, like blaming bad weather for SIX's disappointing earnings. For all the problems current management had with Six Flags New Orleans; Burke & Story had to contend with the post 9/11 economic downturn. RedZone has clearly been given a free pass on these two things Premier was chastised for. Burke might have moved too fast acquiring parks and letting customer service slide (a move he expressed regret for and acknowledged needed to change), but Shapiro has done little to improve the overall image of Six Flags (although he has done well with improving seasonal employment levels while lowering personnel costs). I'd also say Six Flags's post "Mr. Six" campaign has been a miserable failure.

 

Shapiro provided no guidance on how Six Flags plans to dispel the "Magic Mountain is closing" mindset. I'm not sure if TPR asked him this, but nowhere have I've seen Mark state how Six Flags can turn this around. Putting this park up for sale did more to hurt the property than a disenfranchised Del Holland and Premier Parks lack of TLC ever could. Hell, take full-page ads out in the L.A. Times proclaiming, "Magic Mountain is open to thrill today and forever! The only thing we're selling is family fun!" might help.

 

I don't recall any special attention given to Magic Mountain during either 2006 (Tatsu yes, but that was Burke's initiative) or 2007. If $15M is enough to start sending a park in the right direction as Shapiro must feel (I'd say Jay Thomas's appointment was the best move Mark could have made here); why would you even bother trying to sell the property in the first place? $15M is chicken feed when comparing the DCP purchase, and is still $25M cheaper.

 

(Can someone please tell me what property DCP has is compelling? "So You Think You Can Dance" is hardly the ratings juggernaut "American Idol" is Mark. It's not even worthy of "Dancing With The Stars". Does anyone care about the AMA's?)

 

I did find the back and forth exchanges about the "Tilt-A-Whirl" removal funny and yet strange. At times, it felt comical. Then I think Mark almost seemed annoyed that the ride's removal was even questioned. While "Tilt-A-Whirl" may be found everywhere, how many people run to theme parks to ride a wild mouse? I can buy a ticket to Disneyland and ride DCA's for free (So. Cal 2fers). I'd argue flats like the "Tilt-A-Whirl" make Magic Mountain stronger. Those rides are mild enough for everyone to enjoy and add balance to the park. There are people that won't ride coasters no matter what, but still love "the swings" (be it a Zierer Wave Swinger or Zamperla copy). Shapiro may have 5-year plans, but those are easily tossed aside by unforeseen factors. I'd rather try to do as much as possible now, than not be able to do anything later on.

[Tiburon503]

^I think that was very well said. I'm glad you noticed the slight attitude Shapiro had. Robb, Wes, and I also noticed, but we're giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

Like you said, it will take a couple of years to see if he really does have all the answers.

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in noticing the attitude. Mark Shapiro was exactly that way at ESPN too (a couple of friends interned in Bristol). Did Robb mention the "Tilt-A-Whirl" more in the raw cut, to make Mark keep harping on it? He really seemed (at times), really annoyed at its mention.

[coasterjunkie91350]

It does sound like shapiro was getting pissed off the the many mentions of the tilt a whirl ummm still a bit of jet lag there if you ask me

[astroworldfan1]

It also sounded like Mark was eating during the interview.

 

I have to agree about him being kinda rude, but consider yourself lucky to get the interview!

 

-Tatum

[USCoaster]

Wow... I think I may have turned this thread a bit negative.

 

To focus on the positives, as much I dislike the removal of rides, Mark Shapiro has taken on the task of removing the rides that have been just sitting there and rusting. I was one of the few that loved Flashback, but I think it was more painful to see it sitting there rusting away that to watch it torn down. And people have been calling for Psyclone to be destroyed for years... Freefall is a bit of a shame just because Six Flags finally got it running again only to decide to scrap it. While we are on the ride removal subject, I have a couple other suggestions.

 

First, if everything we have been told about Metro is true, tear it out. Most of the track is fairly accessible from the park paths, it could be removed in a couple of weeks. Any sections of track that aren't easy to get to and aren't too visible can be left for a later project. That opens up 2 station locations (Since the mountain tunnel station isn't very useful at this point) and the large area where the maintenance shed is for either park or hurricane harbor expansion.

 

Second, remove all the small backstage buildings along the left side of the path to Scream and move the park boundary out to the large warehouse next to Scream's station. This will make both Scream and Colossus feel like they are better integrated into the park instead of along a dead end path.

 

Third, remove the go-cart track, thrill shot, and/or the skycoaster and put a real(s) ride in. It will help bring more people to that section of the park. Yes, the pay per ride attractions bring more money to the park, but having all three in one spot means locals and people who don't want to spend the money just walk on through. Even putting one must ride flat ride in the area makes people stop and hang around... It might even convince them to ride one of the upcharge rides. If you want go-carts, put them down under/over/around either Scream or Goliath. There is a lot of room under those coasters that with some thought, fencing, and fiberglass canopies, could be used for a pretty awesome track layout.

 

Fourth, remove Superman the Escape. I know it is a fairly popular ride, but it is an energy hog, a maintenance nightmare I assume, and its really not that great of a ride. And with the new Intamin Rocket design, you don't even have to remove the tower. Intamin should be able to attach a new Rocket Coaster onto the existing tower pretty easily and for less than Top Thrill Dragster or Kingda Ka cost... Depending on what happens after the tower section. I think it could get good use out of Metro's Tunnel Station.

 

I think that is it for the stuff I think should be removed right now. In the future maintenance project list, I think Revolution and Colossus need a lot of love in the next couple years and I really hope they get it. Revolution either needs new lap bars that remove the need for the OSTRs, new trains, or even new track. Colossus needs to be restored and retracked and to be run with its lift running full speed as the trains crest the top. I really don't believe that it can save that much money on maintenance due to wear and tear on the track. Well I guess I can since it seems like the park doesn't spend the money needed to keep the coaster in top form.

 

Thats all I can come up with for now, its late and I'm tired.

[PURE]

I don't know what it is but every higher up that works for SF acts like that when it comes to talking to their lower employees, or being interviewed for things, much like this. It's almost degrading, like how servers at restaurants can be treated. Shapiro is the CEO of one of the larger amusement park companies around, and is the GM of a MLB team. He's surrounded by and is worth lots of money, Its no surprise he'd be cocky, I'm sure I would be too.

 

But putting that aside for some reason I feel like he was undermining Robb's grasp on business concepts, something that should have been made clear to him before or during the interview. It sounds like he was informed of repeated "tilt a whirl" removal complaints (from enthusiasts maybe?) that he was taking out on Robb or something (because they read the forums?), I didn't understand his obsessiveness with bringing up that ride.

 

But appealing to the public eye is not important when it comes to doing an interview for coaster nerds. Either way he's going to be the CEO for some time, unless he gets sick of it. He doesn't need to be courteous or polite, hell, he didn't even have to do the interview if he didn't want to.

 

I agree about the attitude, I heard it right off the bat. But the attitude he has is something that has proved to be successful for him, and I think it's the attitude the company needs to have right now if they plan to be successful. Yes the coaster explosion years at the SF parks were awesome, but I think we all need to get over it and realize what mess that ended up getting them into. The chain needed change, and now its happening.

[saxman47]

^ Six Flags Mark Shapiro is not the same guy as the Cleveland Indians GM Mark Shapiro

[AllenA07]

^^I do agree on the fact that he does seem cocky, however as you put it, I promise you if I was the CEO of Six Flags I would come off Cocky as well. Shapiro is obviously very successful at business, it should not therefore come as any surprise that he has almost a feeling of overconfidence/cockiness/rudeness when he speaks. Again if any of us were the CEO of Six Flags, we'd be pretty confident in ourselves as well.

 

I wonder how long it will take somebody to make a "cockiness" joke... Ah I just can't resist:

 

So last night I walked into a strip club and a feeling of cockiness came over me... Alright I'm done.

[Wes]

I'm not making excuses for him, but honestly, in my experience, that's the way ALOT of higher ups act in Q&A situations. You can ask a pretty clear question, and the question gets spun into something different, or deflected completely. In a perfect world, everyone would answer questions genuinely, but the corporate world doesn't function in the same dimension as everything else. With that taken into account, I thought Robb did a good job of getting good information out of him.

[sam06pr]

This was a good interview, although I found some of the responses to be a bit rude, as if they were aggravated. But I think with them in charge Six Flags is heading in the right direction surpassing the standards of other amusement parks such as Cedar Fair. I love their philosophy and the way they see things should be. With them in charge I feel comfortable that everything will turn out great!

 

Oh and I think Robb did a good job with the interview, very organized and concise. Good Job

[robbalvey]

It's like I said, he wouldn't really *let* me ask the entire question I wanted to before cutting me off. The question was supposed to be more about midway games versus flat rides, but the moment I even said "Tilt-A-Whirl" he just started talking.

 

At the end of the day, he did give some good information even if some of it wasn't specifically what I was asking or wanted to ask about.

 

--Robb

[USCoaster]

Note: I typed this up last night but was unable to post it due to the forum being really slow so I will post it now.

 

Wow... I think I may have turned this thread a bit negative.

To focus on the positives, as much I dislike the removal of rides, Mark Shapiro has taken on the task of removing the rides that have been just sitting there and rusting. I was one of the few that loved Flashback, but I think it was more painful to see it sitting there rusting away that to watch it torn down. And people have been calling for Psyclone to be destroyed for years... Freefall is a bit of a shame just because Six Flags finally got it running again only to decide to scrap it. While we are on the ride removal subject, I have a couple other suggestions.

 

First, if everything we have been told about Metro is true, tear it out. Most of the track is fairly accessible from the park paths, it could be removed in a couple of weeks. Any sections of track that aren't easy to get to and aren't too visible can be left for a later project. That opens up 2 station locations (Since the mountain tunnel station isn't very useful at this point) and the large area where the maintenance shed is for either park or hurricane harbor expansion.

 

Second, remove all the small backstage buildings along the left side of the path to Scream and move the park boundary out to the large warehouse next to Scream's station. This will make both Scream and Colossus feel like they are better integrated into the park instead of along a dead end path.

 

Third, remove/relocate the go-cart track, thrill shot, and/or the skycoaster and put a real ride in. It will help bring more people to that section of the park. Yes, the pay per ride attractions bring more money to the park, but having all three in one spot means locals and people who don't want to spend the money just walk on through. Even putting one must ride flat ride in the area makes people stop and hang around... It might even convince them to ride one of the upcharge rides. If you want go-carts, put them down under/over/around either Scream or Goliath. There is a lot of room under those coasters that with some thought, fencing, and fiberglass canopies, could be used for a pretty awesome track layout.

 

Fourth, remove Superman the Escape. I know it is a fairly popular ride, but it is an energy hog, a maintenance nightmare I assume, and its really not that great of a ride. And with the new Intamin Rocket design, you don't even have to remove the tower. Intamin should be able to attach a new Rocket Coaster onto the existing tower pretty easily and for less than Top Thrill Dragster or Kingda Ka cost... Depending on what happens after the tower section. I think it could get good use out of Metro's Tunnel Station.

 

I think that is it for the stuff I think should be removed right now. In the future maintenance project list, I think Revolution and Colossus need a lot of love in the next couple years and I really hope they get it. Revolution either needs new lap bars that remove the need for the OSTRs, new trains, or even new track. Colossus needs to be restored and retracked and to be run with its lift running full speed as the trains crest the top. I really don't believe that it can save that much money on maintenance due to wear and tear on the track. Well I guess I can since it seems like the park doesn't spend the money needed to keep the coaster in top form.

[downunder]

TPR: When asked about 2009 at Six Flags Magic Mountain -

Mark Shaprio: "We are looking into a new coaster for 2009. Can I say anymore? No. We're also looking into Wiggle's World. "

 

This makes me wish Robb was a Jedi so he could do the Jedi mind trick - hand gesture "you will get an Intamin pre-fab in 2009."

 

You never know they might atcually get one, but my bet is probably another Dull Knight, er I mean Dark Knight coaster.

 

On the whole I was really impressed, and hopefully things will keep on the up.

[Tmcdllr]

Because MM has a unique collection of coasters I would guess the 2009 coaster would hopefully be unique as well. A clone would be fine but I just don't see that happening...a great big GCI would rock...who knows at his point.