Letter from Cedar Fair

[DATman]

^Stop assuming that my entire generation cannot write something halfway decent! I'm 15 and I can tell you that this is HORRIBLY off base. Quite honestly, there are so many of us who can write properly, and I'm ashamed for the children you teach, becuase form that post, you seem to have absolutely no respect for them or their abilities.

 

Seriously, just becuase some of us cannot write, does NOT mean that all of us can't. I believe you forget that there were people in your generation who wrote like that, so stop belittling us. It's rude and annoying. Yes, some of the people who post on this site have no grasp for the english language (I am only reffering to those who speak english. I have nothing against someone who has not studied the language like I have in school), but to be so rash as to say that no one can write properly in my generation is truly an insult.

 

Obvioulsy, I can't write properly, seeing as I typed all of this response by myself and did not use a spell checker.

 

I'm on the internet all the time, and I rarely use shorthand. This includes texting on my phone as well, thank you very much. I guess the toxin of the internet which I have been using since about 4th grade has not seeped into my mind yet.

 

I don't mean to be rude, but I mean seriously.

[coaster05]

^I agree somewhat with you, but you also have to realize he did not mean everyone. As far as the grading of the papers, give them an F til they write it correctly. I mean do you grade papers without a name, of course not. So make it a class rule.

[robbalvey]

This includes texting on my phone as well

It's funny you say that. I REFUSE to use text message shorthand other than the occasional "LOL" or "WTF". Seriously, if it's not one of the "Top 5" which seem to be pretty accepted, I write it out FULL!

 

--Robb "Glad other people feel the same way." Alvey

[ParkTrips]

I wrote this quick letter to Cedar Fair, there may be some mispelled words or run on sentences, again this was only a 3 minute letter.

Irony: misspelled is.. uh, misspelled.

 

While you're at it, why not ask for profit margins on cokes and where they drop their money...

 

The rest of the thread was pretty much on target with my reaction so no need to say stuff over again.

 

oh, but who had the better letter - this dude, or Barry?

[thecoasterkid]

^^^^ You're taking this far too personally. As a young person myself, I have some pretty good perspective on this whole thing.

 

I personally take great pride in my ability to type properly and use good grammar and punctuation. The problem is that ALOT (I'm not even saying some, it's really the majority) of youth today don't give a rat's arse about proper english. They interact with other young people who type the same way as them, and they allow each other to get away with it.

 

The problem occurs when these young people go out into the adult world and continue to use their improper language outside of their peers. The majority of adults can't stand this, and for good reason. These people do not have the sense to differentiate what is acceptable with their peers, and what is acceptable to the rest of the world.

 

In my school system students were forced to take a business class in grade 9 that taught them how to type and write proper formal letters. Since then I have also taken classes in many other years where the exact same thing has been done. I am in my second year of college and am shocked and appauled at the number of my peers that can't form proper sentences, paragraphs, or letters.

 

There are some young people who take the personal time and pride into writing properly, myself included. Unfortunately we are the minority and until more of us write correctly this will remain a major problem.

 

 

On a different note I am looking forward to the upcoming announcements and I am eager to hear what the plans are for Canada's Wonderland.

[GMAN962]

Okay, I guess after reading this whole thread *Wow, what took a while.* I guess it's time I put my opinion in.

 

Robb is right that he should have taken more time on that letter. He also never said that all of today's generation uses "text talk" or "leet speak"

 

Elissa is right that many times parents have to do with this problem. Now, I'm not saying that all parents have to do with this problem, most of them are great. Sometimes parents don't come down on their kids and make them get good grades, or have any punishment at all! Since they don't try in school, they obviously don't have very good grammar, etc.

 

Sometimes kids talk like that only online. Personally, have much more trouble reading shorthand than typed out words. It takes me...I'd say almost twice the time to read shorthand.

 

Swoosh, however, I must say is not entirely correct. Not all kids talk like that. Look at me. I don't and I'm fourteen. Look at Dallas, he's much younger than me, and he types GREAT! Yeah, kids sometimes write papers like that, but I've seen papers passed out at school that uses shorthand! They say it's a faster way to type! Sometimes adults type like that too if I'm not mistaken...

 

DATman is right, don't judge an entire generation by it's majority, and as Robb said, not all of them type like that.

 

~Mike "This thread has become more of a 'battleground' than a discussion" J

[pgathriller]

I agree with gman62 about this thread turning into a heated battle ground than a discussion. I read the whole thread and everyones opinion is legitimate. This topic was started so you may state your opinion on the letter sent to Cedar Fair but has been turned into a heated discussion on bad use of grammar. After being a member on this website for close to two years, I have never seen a thread in which people try so hard to get their opinion out. I'm not saying this thread is so terrible, it's just that many TPR members are getting quite heated in there opinion. I totally agree with Robb about the bad use of grammar on this site by "some" of the younger members. This is "Robb's" site and he is free to have it managed and used in his own interest. He doesn't enjoy bad use of grammar on this site so he stated it right from the begining but since then everyone has started there heated discussion on bad grammar and some people blaming other people for targeting the younger members. You have to remember this site is like a little community and I think we all are getting a little bit out of hand. The author of this thread has not posted since he posted the thread. Im pretty sure after reading all of this he will think twice on how to handle a letter. Don't you think? You are stated to your opinion on this website. Everyone has stated theres and this is mine. I'm not at all trying to upset anyone so I hope no one takes this personaly.

 

I would also like to add that I am too 16 years old and as most members on this site, I try my best to properly write my topics and posts.

 

As for the letter...

 

All I'm going to say is that I don't agree on how he went about it. I think he tried to get a little more information than a company should give out.

 

This is for people who need help with their grammar-

 

http://www.spellcheck.net/ Copy & Paste and it spell checks in a second!

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/ An online dictionary!

[USRoadTripper]

^ And any help anyone could possibly need regarding grammar or word usage can easily be found on the internet. There's no reason that anyone who speaks fluent English should ever have an unprofessional sounding piece of writing.

 

I remember when email was new, and everyone was so excited because it would bring back "the fine art of letter writing." hahahaha

 

-Julie (who never uses text shorthand either, even in test messages!)

[disneygurlz2s]

I agree with gman62 about this thread turning into a heated battle ground than a discussion

Hey! I'm just trying to keep the conversation lively!!

 

No, seriously... I have complete and total respect for Robb and Elissa and appreciate their standards here. This IS fun place for all ages to come and share things related to rides, amusement parks, our lives, whatever. And I agree that if you want to be a part of this or any online community you should know the rules of the road and the expectations of the people in charge. I just disagreed with the fact that every response seemed to be pretty negative. Sorry to sound so "corny", but I guess I thought a simple "Hey dude, we can all appreciate your wanting to know what's on the horizon for Cedar Fair, but you really might want to work on your letter-writing skills before you do that again" would have been sufficient.

 

I agree with everyone that younger people need to learn the proper way to communicate in writing whether it's a thank you note to Grandma or a letter to an executive. Unfortunately, far too much of our population is truly illiterate, and the electronic age is doing nothing to help that.

 

Since they don't try in school, they obviously don't have very good grammar, etc.

As the parent of an elementary school-age child, I can tell you that all kids are being taught now is what they need to know to pass the State testing to fund the schools, and not what they need to be functional young adults/adults in the grown up world.

 

In my opinion it is disrespectful to all the other great members who take the time to make sure their post is mostly correct. As far as the members who don't think it is a big deal then maybe this is not the site for you. I mean there are millions of forums to type on so try those if the rules here are too constricting for your "rebel like ways".

 

Bottom line if you make a foolish post be prepared to be treated like a fool.

If I had a $1 for every foolish post I have read on the internet, I would be a rich girl! Unfortunately kids growing up into today's world, they don't remember the days before chat rooms and the internet (like Robb and I and so many of the rest of us do!) and I agree with Julie in that, while some might have thought that the electronic age would improve communication and "letter writing", that's not always the case!

 

Shari "Didn't mean to start a firestorm!" Shoufler

[mcjaco]

 

2. I personally know the influences that the audience of a park can make. My cousin Stephanie (most of you know her from my Disney TRs) was about 10 years old when she sent in a letter to Disney explaining that it would be nice if the younger children that were too small to ride Splash Mountain could see some of the ride instead of just missing out (even though she could ride, my other cousins were too young at the time, so she was being pretty selfless). Well, about a year later, the tunnel through Splash Mountain (via the WDW Railroad) was opened for a view of Splash Mountain, now available for permanent viewing through the tunnel window. There you go Disney! Complements of Stephanie!

 

I'm quite sure your cousin's letter was not the reason they added the viewing area. I'm also quite sure it was in the original plans. Construction, as with all projects, is done in phases. It was probably one of the latter phases.

 

I can see the imagineers looking at each other and saying, "Well, gosh damn, why didn't we think of that?!"

 

[Wes]

^ Not to mention that DLR's Splash has had a window viewing from the train since it opened.

 

 

As for this whole debate, you know what I was doing when I was 16? Writing letters to theme park designers because I was interested in the profession. I took my time to write maturely, professionally, and with clear intent. And you know what? They responded positively. I got letters, phone calls, invites to come down to offices, etc. Don't use your age as a crutch or an excuse as to why you can't be more adult, be that one kid that people say, "Wow, I can't believe he's only ___!"

[ginzo]

^ Not to mention that DLR's Splash has had a window viewing from the train since it opened.

 

 

As for this whole debate, you know what I was doing when I was 16? Writing letters to theme park designers because I was interested in the profession. I took my time to write maturely, professionally, and with clear intent. And you know what? They responded positively. I got letters, phone calls, invites to come down to offices, etc. Don't use your age as a crutch or an excuse as to why you can't be more adult, be that one kid that people say, "Wow, I can't believe he's only ___!"

 

What kind of response did your letters get from Michael Jackson when you were 16?

[jedimaster1227]

It's funny you say that. I REFUSE to use text message shorthand other than the occasional "LOL" or "WTF". Seriously, if it's not one of the "Top 5" which seem to be pretty accepted, I write it out FULL!

 

--Robb "Glad other people feel the same way." Alvey

 

I don't even think it is possible for me to write shorthand for text messages, emails, posts on a forum or just plain writing. You see, I had an advanced English Grammar class for my three years in Middle School with the same teacher. Her methods of eradicating poor grammar included essays on the reasons shorthand was improper, writing the proper form of the word 200 times for each replacement shorthand word found on an assignment and more techniques like this. After those three years (which at the time I hated) I learned how to make proper business letters in the different formats, including ones addressed directly to a major company. Now, looking back at it, I feel lucky as I never have to worry about shorthand, as proper grammar has truly been hammered into my brain forever. The scary thing about it is, that if someone speaks or types with horrible grammar (not one or two errors, but over 10 in one sentence), my friends and I (from that class) all cringe as it hurts to hear and see...

[ginzo]

It's funny you say that. I REFUSE to use text message shorthand other than the occasional "LOL" or "WTF". Seriously, if it's not one of the "Top 5" which seem to be pretty accepted, I write it out FULL!

 

--Robb "Glad other people feel the same way." Alvey

 

I don't even think it is possible for me to write shorthand for text messages, emails, posts on a forum or just plain writing. You see, I had an advanced English Grammar class for my three years in Middle School with the same teacher. Her methods of eradicating poor grammar included essays on the reasons shorthand was improper, writing the proper form of the word 200 times for each replacement shorthand word found on an assignment and more techniques like this. After those three years (which at the time I hated) I learned how to make proper business letters in the different formats, including ones addressed directly to a major company. Now, looking back at it, I feel lucky as I never have to worry about shorthand, as proper grammar has truly been hammered into my brain forever. The scary thing about it is, that if someone speaks or types with horrible grammar (not one or two errors, but over 10 in one sentence), my friends and I (from that class) all cringe as it hurts to hear and see...

 

Grammar nazi teachers, unfortunately, don't typically teach you how to be a good writer. You'll need to consult "The Elements of Style" for that, or get lucky with a good English professor.

[jedimaster1227]

Grammar nazi teachers, unfortunately, don't typically teach you how to be a good writer. You'll need to consult "The Elements of Style" for that, or get lucky with a good English professor.

 

She did teach us grammar, literary skills, and writing skills as was the requirement for this class.

[robbalvey]

Sorry to sound so "corny", but I guess I thought a simple "Hey dude, we can all appreciate your wanting to know what's on the horizon for Cedar Fair, but you really might want to work on your letter-writing skills before you do that again" would have been sufficient.

Honestly, if I had not just deleted close to 200 posts over the past couple of days due to terrible spelling, grammar, etc, mostly from our younger readers that probably would have been the case. But this was kind of like the straw and the camel that made me think "when are some of these kids going to learn?"

 

--Robb

[thecoasterkid]

^ That's exactly the problem, in my opinion. The kids are being taught too late.

 

I think if they were taught in elementary school before they begin using the internet for chat clients the problem can be solved before it ever begins for them. If they are taught that shorthand is socially unacceptable, and are shown how to properly write at an early age, they may not ever use shorthand writing.

 

By waiting until middle school, or even worse high school, the kids have already developed the bad habits, and it becomes nearly impossible to break them from it.

[gax]

 

By waiting until middle school, or even worse high school, the kids have already developed the bad habits, and it becomes nearly impossible to break them from it.

 

That’s not necessarily true. A lot of my friends and I used to write in shorthand on msn conversations, forum topics, text messages etc. etc. But now absolutely none of us use it at all! When writing a text message I NEVER use shorthand, I hate the look of it and I think some of it's cringe worthy to read! But when I look back 3/4 years ago and I was on theme park forums saying "wot is air @ alton twrs sposed 2 be themed lyk?" I laugh at myself! And I've just slipped easily into writing normally!

 

But your point is very good, I remember reading on an Alton Towers forum about when it was only ever enthusiasts sending letter/phonecalls/emails to the park asking about future developments, and they ALWAYS got a good, detailed reply. This created a bond between designers and enthusiasts, which now seems to have been broken, because the park gets 100's of emails a day asking "Y DNT U BUILD A 500 FOOT ROLR CSTR??” They now barely ever reply to emails and the connection seems to have been lost, and think you all hit the nail on the head to as of why it is.

[TexTitan01]

^^200? I hope none of mine were in there. I try to make a fair effort to be as grammatically/spellingly (?) correct as possible, but there are still times when I slip up, re-read my post, and say "oh crap, I better change that...".

 

Consider that as me vouching for a bit of understanding in my posts

[robbalvey]

^ I have always said the occasional typos in posts are "ok" as long as they are legible. But when the topic title isn't capitalized along with words that should be in a post, and there are obvious misspellings, for example "i rode superman ride of steal" and if that post adds nothing to the topic, I delete it.

 

I don't think we've ever had a problem with any of your posts.

 

--Robb

[Wes]

^^200? I hope none of mine were in there. I try to make a fair effort to be as grammatically/spellingly (?) correct as possible, but there are still times when I slip up, re-read my post, and say "oh crap, I better change that...".

 

Consider that as me vouching for a bit of understanding in my posts

 

Posts like this are almost as annoying as the ones we're complaining about. Stop posting "Oh is it me, I forgot to capitalize a letter once, sorry." Believe me, YOU WILL KNOW IF WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU.

[spaminacan11]

A lot of people in this thread seem to be saying that the problem is that young people don't learn grammar early enough. I don't know about a lot of the other younger people on this site, but I learned how to write a solid letter and paragraph in second grade. I do not believe that the problem lies on when the material is taught, but just the fact the people do not care. They just get used to writing like that while talking on instant messenger with their friends. That is acceptable, because it isn't a formal conversation.

 

Like someone in this thread mentioned, the problem is that they simply haven't learned that shorthand, misspellings, and bad grammar are not acceptable in a professional environment. If anybody is trying to protect Milkchan, it is not the right thing to do. He may never learn his lesson about writing like that until he steps into a professional workplace to get a job, and cannot get a job because the employers won't take him seriously because his writing is not legible.

 

Those of you who are trying to protect yourself from the stereotype that is stamped on young people, why not just go on like normal and just prove that you do not fit that stereotype? Robb has said many times that some people under the age of 18 can write well. That is all that is needed to be said. No one has pointed you out for bad grammar, so why try to protect yourself from it if you write well?

[Stealth]

This is a problem but im pretty sure it's not just the "kids" and if it is its not all of us, and even though it is annoying it's much worse on some other forums. Like this for example, "I'd prefure it to be a flawless now instead of a flyer." I won't say where i found this but maybe we should count ourselves lucky most people on here are intelligent and can write properly.

 

As for me i generally make a whole load of typos but i take the time to read back over the post before posting it most of the time, and if not i will go back and edit it if i notice something wrong. I gernerally use shorthand in texts and on msn but when i need to write things out properly i can.

[Fallen Heretic]

We have a big problem these days with this sort of thing in the UK. In Scotland in particular. I blame the dumbing down of the education system for problems here.

 

There are 18 year olds leaving Secondary or College, getting into University Degree courses when they have sub-standard reading and writing skills. Ive seen people reading their text books, running their finger slowly under the words, sounding them off slowly as they read. And this was a guy going to a teaching college!

 

Ive seen some current exam papers and they are very much easier than those I sat for the same subject at the same age in the same school. In order to increase general pass marks, the educational authorities are just making exams easier rather than improving teaching standards. So now kids are going to Uni without some of the basic skills that their pass marks imply they should have.

 

Also, listening to some of the kids speak here is quite shocking. Yes I know each culture and generation has its own 'lingo'. I use alot of Scottish slang myself when talking to my friends. But we can all still hold a conversation in proper English. I heard a 19 year old saying "Yeah, I isnt fick, yeah? I jus dont git dis, innit?". And that is a college graduate at a placement interview.

 

I understand that alot of kids are fine, and some better than average. I guess it depends on the area and school your talking about as well, but its a situation which I think is getting worse in the UK.

[Swoosh]

...just the fact the people do not care.

 

There in point is the problem I was talking about. I do realize there ARE some teens and tweens out there that CAN and DO write in legible terms when making a post. However, for every one of you there are at least fifteen or more that do not care.