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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 1989: Wicked Twister's permanent closure announced!

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There is NOTHING forceless about those plunges down the two vertical (or near vertical) drops.

 

Umm isn't the point of a vertical drop to have zero gravity, aka no force? Ain't like they pull a ton of Gs at the bottom either

Are you kidding? Have you been on SheiKra? You get some very good airtime down the drop, especially in the back, and then you feel some very good forces when you pull out at the bottom into the first inversion.

 

EDIT: Apparently SheiKra pulls 4 Gs at the bottom of the first drop.

Edited by robbalvey
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The only thing I have to say about this one is...it could have been more. There's not quite enough new or -Est to this one for me. The extra 10 feet is not an extra 60 or 100 feet. Having Sheikra nearby and having ridden Griffon recently...well it's basically Griffon with a wingrider-roll off of the helix instead of a splashdown (not a huge reason for me personally to fly back to the park or write gushing blog posts) Especially coming only a day off of Lightning Rod's announcement, a coaster with 5 or 6 never-before-seen elements this one is basically just a little bit safe. Should be a little bit better than previous Dives but not a leap of imagination.

 

One more closer to running out of B&M designs.

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The only thing I have to say about this one is...it could have been more. There's not quite enough new or -Est to this one for me. The extra 10 feet is not an extra 60 or 100 feet. Having Sheikra nearby and having ridden Griffon recently...well it's basically Griffon with a wingrider-roll off of the helix instead of a splashdown (not a huge reason for me personally to fly back to the park or write gushing blog posts) Especially coming only a day off of Lightning Rod's announcement, a coaster with 5 or 6 never-before-seen elements this one is basically just a little bit safe. Should be a little bit better than previous Dives but not a leap of imagination.

 

One more closer to running out of B&M designs.

 

As long as Maverick exists there's always a reason to fly back to this park.

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I like dive machines, just pointing out that it seems silly to say a vertical drop isn't "forceless" when that's the whole point of a vertical drop.

 

Nothing at the bottom of the drop makes me think their forces come anywhere near something like Kumba for example, but perhaps it just goes by too fast to really have time to appreciate?

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I like dive machines, just pointing out that it seems silly to say a vertical drop isn't "forceless" when that's the whole point of a vertical drop.

 

Nothing at the bottom of the drop makes me think their forces come anywhere near something like Kumba for example, but perhaps it just goes by too fast to really have time to appreciate?

What the hell is your problem that you keep throwing this back in people's faces?!?!? First of all absolutely NOBODY is saying that the drop is either forceful or forceless. It produces some nice airtime, mostly floater, and that's the whole point. At the bottom of the drop, like I said, it pulls 4 G's. According to the internet, Kumba pulls 3.8 Gs. So sorry, you're wrong, SheiKra is actually more forceful. Does it feel more forceful than Kumba to me? No, but that has less to do with the actual recorded G forces and more about the layout.

 

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with your little factoid, but it's incredibly stupid and pointless that you felt the need to bring it up twice. Yes, you pointed it out. Thanks a lot. Whatever... Now move on...

Edited by robbalvey
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GateKeeper is my favorite B&M in the park. I prefer it to both Raptor and Rougauru. This DIve Coaster looks better then Gatekeeper, IMO. Maybe not enough to knock Maverick, TTD, or MF out of my top 3, but awesome anyways. Cedar Point continues to have the best lineup of coasters you're going to find at a park.

 

No, it's not Wildfire, or the Dollywood coaster, but it will be a reliable, high capacity, fun coaster, at America's Roller Coast.

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^ Yes Robb, I do agree. That drop in the back has some of the best air time ever. It is most likely my favorite OH CR** *P !! moments on a coaster.

 

Exactly - there is very good air on both Sheikra and Griffon, especially in the back. the darn restraints keep it from being great.

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My only thoughts about the leak are:

 

1) that layout looks nothing like the typical renderings CP has used in the past. With the exception of maverick, there are renderings that all look incredibly similar for Millennium, Wicked Twister, Dragster, Gatekeeper and Rougarou. At least that's what I've seen. I'm not sure of the credibility of the pre Gatekeeper layout animations... But I guess if you look at other cedar fair announcements, they are all the actual colors of the ride, pretty gosh darn realistic, usually on a white background, and has the train SOMEWHERE on the layout.

 

2) the MCBR seems incredibly high up to me... If this is supposed to be over 200 feet tall, wouldn't that mean that MCBR is either 100' or higher up in the air? That seems a *little* high for an MCBR to me...

 

3) Some of these supports don't make total sense to me... Mainly at the base of the lift hill, and some parts of the track seem to have too much space between supports...

 

4) That final brake run seems like it's very very long... For a 3 car long train especially... I mean. Unless they want to announce the longest brake run on a dive machine to battle Lightning Rod's Quadruple Down airtime awesomeness.

 

Though I'm sure whatever Valravn ends up being, will be awesome... I have higher expectations for the actual layout rendering... The white track and white supports on a black background seems incredibly bland and not really all that real to

Me... Maybe CP just threw those fake layouts on their countdown in case it actually was hacked into or leaked somehow like with Gatekeeper. Maybe this is there nod to that happening. I'll try to keep an optimistic attitude with this. I'm hopeful for what they have to offer. And I'm willing to wait 9 days give or take to know for sure what they're adding. (For the record, I am on the "it's gonna be a dive machine" side of things)

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My only thoughts about the leak are:

 

1) that layout looks nothing like the typical renderings CP has used in the past. With the exception of maverick, there are renderings that all look incredibly similar for Millennium, Wicked Twister, Dragster, Gatekeeper and Rougarou. At least that's what I've seen. I'm not sure of the credibility of the pre Gatekeeper layout animations... But I guess if you look at other cedar fair announcements, they are all the actual colors of the ride, pretty gosh darn realistic, usually on a white background, and has the train SOMEWHERE on the layout.

 

2) the MCBR seems incredibly high up to me... If this is supposed to be over 200 feet tall, wouldn't that mean that MCBR is either 100' or higher up in the air? That seems a *little* high for an MCBR to me...

 

3) Some of these supports don't make total sense to me... Mainly at the base of the lift hill, and some parts of the track seem to have too much space between supports...

 

4) That final brake run seems like it's very very long... For a 3 car long train especially... I mean. Unless they want to announce the longest brake run on a dive machine to battle Lightning Rod's Quadruple Down airtime awesomeness.

 

Though I'm sure whatever Valravn ends up being, will be awesome... I have higher expectations for the actual layout rendering... The white track and white supports on a black background seems incredibly bland and not really all that real to

Me... Maybe CP just threw those fake layouts on their countdown in case it actually was hacked into or leaked somehow like with Gatekeeper. Maybe this is there nod to that happening. I'll try to keep an optimistic attitude with this. I'm hopeful for what they have to offer. And I'm willing to wait 9 days give or take to know for sure what they're adding. (For the record, I am on the "it's gonna be a dive machine" side of things)

 

Almost all of your concerns are because this isn't the final rendering (saying this for the third time I think). Those images were ripped from the code of the VR app which leaked. Since it is made for phones, it is way less detailed (ie: no catwalks, chain, brakes, etc.) so that it can run smoothly on a phone. The color thing is because the renders are taken from code, and they're just 3d models found within the code.

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Well, I get busy for a day, don't access the boards at all, and look what I come back to!

 

I'm not sure what else to add, that hasn't already been said...

 

One thing that bothers me, is that it seems we are all expected to LOVE THIS or we're bad enthusiasts, who need to get a life... I don't agree with that attitude being given at all! There is nothing wrong with being a little disappointed with this coaster, compared to what hopes may have been for it. Admittedly, I find it to be a bit lackluster, from what I've seen, at least compared to what I was expecting based on this being Cedar Point we're talking about here. However, I haven't seen any official renderings, stats, or anything else, so I also haven't given it much serious thought yet. When the official announcement drops, I'll form my official opinion. Right now, all this still feels like a form of advanced speculation...

 

Now, don't get me wrong... I enjoyed ShieKra, and really want to ride Griffon, and have always wanted there to be more Dive Machines (I'm still old school with the name) in the US. So, I'm not at all disappointed with the ride from that perspective! I'll still be there either on a Media Day, Opening Day, or shortly therewith. I'm just a little surprised that the coaster isn't taller, faster, or have one more inversion. But regardless of that, I know it's going to be an awesome coaster, that I will greatly enjoy, and may surpass GateKeeper to join MF and Maverick in my Top 3 at the park! Yes, you read that right: GateKeeper is my 3rd favorite coaster at the park. I am definitely NOT in the crowd that thinks it is forceless, or disappointing (though the second half is, admittedly, nowhere near as good as the first half.) So that right there should tell you that I am not going to be unhappy with Valravn! (Okay, I HATE orange, and HATE that it's used so much at CP, but I'll still be happy with the coaster itself! )

 

The one thing that I'll potentially be disappointed with, which can't be definitively discerned from the stripped-bare images we've seen, is if there is no drop into a tunnel, or at least an enclosure of some sort (I'm not sure CP can really tunnel underground there, so close to the water). To me, that is a signature move for a Dive Machine, and part of what made ShieKra so cool to me! I don't care about the lack of a water splashdown element, but I will be a little bummed if there is no cool themed tunnel that Valravn drops into... However, I don't think those white layout pictures show any non-essential theming or elements, so I still think we'll find out there is something that it dives into when the official announcement is made. If there isn't though, my disappointment doesn't reflect negatively on me at all, nor does it really reflect negatively on CP. It just is a natural feeling that humans experience for various reasons, and it won't keep me from going to CP and enjoying the ride!

 

Regarding this whole leak just being CP trolling us... I think that'd be hilarious! I'm not saying it is just that, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it was, either!

 

Also, that logo is awesome! That is all.

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My only thoughts about the leak are:

2) the MCBR seems incredibly high up to me... If this is supposed to be over 200 feet tall, wouldn't that mean that MCBR is either 100' or higher up in the air? That seems a *little* high for an MCBR to me...

 

SheiKra is 200' tall with 138' tall MCBR

Griffon is 205' tall with 130' MCBR

From the looks of it, if this is real it's just about right.

VR2.thumb.png.524d0cf9611fee0030c3f09b2aa2b1c8.png

4) That final brake run seems like it's very very long... For a 3 car long train especially... I mean. Unless they want to announce the longest brake run on a dive machine to battle Lightning Rod's Quadruple Down airtime awesomeness.

 

It may be a longer brake run, but we don't know how many trains they intend to run on it or when the brakes actually start. If you look at both SheiKra & Griffon on satellite view (google or whatever) you will see that the brake runs are near the same length as the lift hill...much like the renderings for Valravn. Also since there appears to be no splash down to assist in slowing the trains down it makes perfect sense.

 

270268865_SheiKrabrl.JPG.cc16d96fce1933ba36f9f1f16b14643b.JPG

griffonbrl.JPG.d393ebfcfb6110e3ed5010aa2e1d952e.JPG

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Almost all of your concerns are because this isn't the final rendering (saying this for the third time I think). Those images were ripped from the code of the VR app which leaked. Since it is made for phones, it is way less detailed (ie: no catwalks, chain, brakes, etc.) so that it can run smoothly on a phone. The color thing is because the renders are taken from code, and they're just 3d models found within the code.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I've honestly only skimmed the last few pages of the thread and it seemed like people were believing those renderings were the finalized ones... So I hopped on the two cents train to say why I thought they couldn't be the final ones. I also do have to admit sometimes I type without fully proofing my posts before sharing them... Sometimes they do get repetitive. My bad.

 

SheiKra is 200' tall with 138' tall MCBR

Griffon is 205' tall with 130' MCBR

From the looks of it, if this is real it's just about right.

 

It may be a longer brake run, but we don't know how many trains they intend to run on it or when the brakes actually start. If you look at both SheiKra & Griffon on satellite view (google or whatever) you will see that the brake runs are near the same length as the lift hill...much like the renderings for Valravn. Also since there appears to be no splash down to assist in slowing the trains down it makes perfect sense.

 

This also helps. I remembered Griffons MCBR being pretty high up but seeing that I only rode it once, and I was rushed - being with a large group - I really didn't have the time to look into those little things like MCBR heights and brake run lengths. Seeing those pictures though. It does seem a lot more realistic. Thanks

To the both of you for the clarification!

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The second half (after the dive loop) is also incredibly slow paced. The second roll over the gates is taken noticeably slower than the first (and less forcefully), followed by the "mid" course brakes, then a helix that seems like it should be about five mph faster. The first half is pretty good and retains good speed, but after the dive loop it just isn't very good at all.

 

All wing coaster in-line rolls are taken at approximately the same pace, so I don't see why this is an issue at all. It's a slow roll over the gate with some choppers - everything it is intended to do. If you were expecting some mind blowing roll, then you are unfairly misjudging that particular element. A MCBR is a MCBR, and the helix has strong positive Gs towards the end followed by some light Gs over the following hill. It's a wing coaster, why do people continue to expect the next Montu out of them? They are all about "Nothing above, nothing below.

An unprecedented feeling of freedom." Not your run of the mill thrilling scream machine. If a seasoned enthusiast has a moderately to even an above moderately thrilling experience, it does its job in spades.

Edited by JonnyRCT3
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In case anyone's having difficulties placing the layout on the plot of land...

Valravn.thumb.png.63a8ead4bd77195ac46169b98fd4e9ed.png

Here's a quick Photoshop of the overhead view of the coaster onto the Google Maps view of the area it will be built. This was the best I could get it to look in ~5 minutes, so bear with me.

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In case anyone's having difficulties placing the layout on the plot of land...

 

Wow! I think that's an excellent mock-up of where the coaster will go! So, if I'm reading it right, you're suggesting that it'll drop down in the middle of the split pathway from from the Marina entrance? I'm really hoping there's a themed rock tunnel it drops into there, but if it were to be a below grade "ditch", between those pathways (including maybe going under a walkway connecting them, similar to what Griffon does), that would be incredibly visually stunning! Then the Dive Loop sticks right out into the main midway...

 

Thanks for taking the time to do that, as it really helps excite me for this coaster even more, seeing it in context, and visualizing how it will fit in with the park! I imagine the station entrance will be where the Turnpike Cars entrance was, and a themed queue (similar to Banshee's) will go back from there, be in the middle of the Valravn track and Raptor cobra roll, before going up to the station which will be up against Perimeter Rd., overlooking the Marina (which will provide a great view from the other side of the peninsula going up the lift hill!)

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Everyone seems to have some degree of disappointment about this coaster, but honestly?! How would any new ride look with Lightning Rod being announced literally days ago? Dollywood raised the bar higher than we can expect any B&M coaster to beat. B&M is still kicking @ss, but we now have these I N S A N E RMCs to compare everything to. If this Valravn leak is true, Cedar Point has an outstanding new attraction on their hands. Keep in mind though that if this had been built instead of Gatekeeper a few years back, nobody would have been disappointed. In 2013, we would all be screaming about how this is perfect for the roller coaster capital of the world.

 

It will be very interesting to see how much one new company can change the pace of the entire industry... I'm so excited for the coming years of roller coaster additions. RMC has shown up completely out of left field, and the already well established firms now have some competition on their hands... Perhaps another "coaster war" but instead of parks, we will watch manufacturers try and claw their way to the top. Look already how we as enthusiasts have been affected- we see this amazing new coaster as sub-par, and I'd bet most can see that RMC is the sole reason for that.

 

It's not that B&M has stopped innovating, it's just that our friends at Rocky Mountain Construction are doing it faster and stealing the spotlight. Sit back, and grab your popcorn.

Edited by baileybrucem
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I almost feel guilty interrupting the current topic, but...

 

I will be making my first trip back to CP in 15 years, and will be bringing my 10YO along for his very first CP visit. We will be staying on the property, and will hit everything we can over both Monday and Tuesday at the park.

 

I know a lot has changed since 2000, so are there any tips/suggestions from the CP veterans in house? Must ride? Must skip? Must eat?

 

Schools are going back in session here in Missouri, but I have no idea what the schedule is for Sandusky, and the surrounding communities. Should we go into both days expecting a typical, super busy Summer crowd?

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated, so I thank you in advance.

 

Here's to a safe 8+ hour drive tomorrow from St. Louis.

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I feel like there is still some space they can work with to make the layout even better.

 

I'm holding onto the hope that this is NOT the real layout and that there may be some things changed in the layout. If not, I'll be happy with this coaster just the way it is.

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