Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[grsupercity]

Flying Dive machine? I think the flying coaster phase was like the stand up phase and will die off quickly

[DILinator]

Flying Dive machine? I think the flying coaster phase was like the stand up phase and will die off quickly

 

I completely disagree on this, and I think ridership proves the opposite. People have always had a dream of flying, and these coasters are the best ones made thus far to simulate such an act. Not surprisingly, Flyers are always popular rides wherever they are (I am speaking of the GP here - ie: the majority of the people parks appeal to - not enthusiasts), and while admittedly, some of the layouts aren't that thrilling, some of them really make good use of the flying effect. I don't see this excitement about Flying Coasters dying off any time soon either, or going the way of the Stand-Up, because while that was truly a novelty (and a painful one at that for some people), there is so much that can still be done with a coaster in the flying position, that hasn't yet. B&M has been making these since 2002, and they are still very much alive, and popular, so clearly, they aren't dying off quickly at all!

[thrillrider]

Flying Dive machine? I think the flying coaster phase was like the stand up phase and will die off quickly

 

 

I agree.

One of the reasons they typically have a line, is because they take so long to load and unload.

[DrachenfireOP]

^ and ^^ I think you both could be right. Stand Up coasters had long lines because they sucked at capacity. Many people didn't like them. But, many people also did. Same goes for fliers. They take forever to load, so there's a guarenteed line for those. That said, the people I hear complaining about flying coasters hurting are usually, to put it bluntly, a little on the huskier side. Standups on the otherhand were a no-go for a larger body of people depending on their height, and also were a no go for a lot of guys.

 

Of course, I see new flying coasters coming out in a greater frequency than stand ups were, although that might just be perception. Anyhow, I hope there's some new innovation to CPs new ride. B&M hasn't really broken new ground in quite some time.

[DILinator]

Flying Dive machine? I think the flying coaster phase was like the stand up phase and will die off quickly

 

 

I agree.

One of the reasons they typically have a line, is because they take so long to load and unload.

 

I figured somebody would try this line of reasoning as a comeback. However, while they do have slower than usual load/unload times, that does not diminish the fact that they are very popular as well. Other coasters with poor load times, but without GP interest, aren't going to have the lines that every Flying Coaster consistently has, and has had for 13 years. I see no less excitement about the ride type from "normal" people (ie: not any of us here) now, than I did back in the early 2000's when I was riding them. Poll random people at the park, and you'll see this corroborated as well. People, generally speaking, enjoy the concept of flying. It's a fact. I've only seen the ride type denigrated or belittled as a "fad" or "gimmick" among enthusiast circles. Nobody else feels that way on the "outside" of our little clique here...

[MagnumFreak25]

Flying coasters aren't during out at all. Just look, there's 4 being built right now. More per year than any time for stand ups. And standup coaster have longer dispatch times than flyers but flyers still consistently have longer lines than stand ups. Look at sfgadv, superman generally has a longer line than green lantern, and gl is usually a one train ride.

[ejot]

In my view, (a) the two tracks have very different spine proportions, and (b) one photo with similar spine heights does rule out a dive machine

 

In the quoted picture, the frame spine height is about 3.5x the rail diameter. In the picture directly above, that height is about 5x the rail diameter. Since the rail diameter is a constant, this implies the spine is much thicker in some areas of the ride than in others. Wing rider coasters have generally had more consistent spine thicknesses

 

Incidentally, the spine height of Baron 1898 appears to vary from about 5x rail diameter to about 3.5x rail diameter, with the thicker rail at the first drop.

 

Okay, this makes no sense to me. (Or maybe I am just reading it wrong.)

 

You are trying to rule out this being a Dive Machine by saying "the frame spine height is about 3.5x the rail diameter. In the picture directly above, that height is about 5x the rail diameter." ... But you then compare this to a Dive Machine that "appears to vary from about 5x rail diameter to about 3.5x rail diameter?"

 

Do we think that MAYBE B&M knows what they are doing when it comes to fabricating track, and maybe there is a reason the spine is not the same size throughout the track? Maybe the spine is thickest at the bottom of the drops where g-forces are highest, and the spine is thinner in places the g-forces are lower? ... I mean... that makes sense to me, and that is clearly what they did on Baron 1898.

Where you bolded text, I accidentally omitted the word "not" that should have gone between "does" and "rule". I think that clears up the confusion. Apologies for the error. My intended point was that this does indeed appear to be dive coaster track with characteristics similar to Baron, and likely not wingrider track.

 

I understand the concepts behind variation in spine thickness. As an engineer myself, I run stress analysis simulations quite often. I do think B&M knows what they are doing; if I implied otherwise, it was not my intent.

[thepoint4life23]

I love how people are throwing out numbers of a Track from just looking at a picture. Who knows how the Picture was taken and what angle.

Also the price people are still stuck on the price, this is funny to me since the news is always right.

Now back on Topic is the fenced off space still just grass or Dirt Moving yet

[DoinItForTheFame]

Where you bolded text, I accidentally omitted the word "not" that should have gone between "does" and "rule". I think that clears up the confusion. Apologies for the error. My intended point was that this does indeed appear to be dive coaster track with characteristics similar to Baron, and likely not wingrider track.

 

I understand the concepts behind variation in spine thickness. As an engineer myself, I run stress analysis simulations quite often. I do think B&M knows what they are doing; if I implied otherwise, it was not my intent.

Ohhhh! Now it makes more sense. I was highly confused at first. Thanks for clearing it up!

[ejot]

I love how people are throwing out numbers of a Track from just looking at a picture. Who knows how the Picture was taken and what angle.

With a little understanding of perspective and foreshortening, and careful selection of views, it's quite easy to pull meaningful dimensional ratios off photographs. Not an uncommon technique at all for rough 3D modeling, and one I use professionally here and there.

[thepoint4life23]

Learn something new everyday

[TB305]

I would like to add: because the pictures are from a far distance zoomed in, it makes things behind the brown track (red track) appear closer (and thus larger) to the brown track than what one would from a normal lens with a wider field of view.

 

Source: Have been a photographer and videographer for 5 years now.

See here what I am talking about. A zoom will make things behind the object look closer and bigger than their true size.

[grsupercity]

Everyone is gonna sh!t there pants when its a B&M 4th dem coaster

[RollerManic]

^^Yes, this is very important. Telephote zoom lenses "compress" the foreground and the background, giving a lovely effect. It also emphasizes the bokeh... not that it is related to this topic...

 

I personally have been using this quite a but yesterday at Colonial Williamsburg and BGW. It does make everything have a more consistent appearance (in size terms).

[ElectricUncleSam]

Flying Dive machine? I think the flying coaster phase was like the stand up phase and will die off quickly

 

 

I agree.

One of the reasons they typically have a line, is because they take so long to load and unload.

 

I figured somebody would try this line of reasoning as a comeback. However, while they do have slower than usual load/unload times, that does not diminish the fact that they are very popular as well. Other coasters with poor load times, but without GP interest, aren't going to have the lines that every Flying Coaster consistently has, and has had for 13 years. I see no less excitement about the ride type from "normal" people (ie: not any of us here) now, than I did back in the early 2000's when I was riding them. Poll random people at the park, and you'll see this corroborated as well. People, generally speaking, enjoy the concept of flying. It's a fact. I've only seen the ride type denigrated or belittled as a "fad" or "gimmick" among enthusiast circles. Nobody else feels that way on the "outside" of our little clique here...

Unrelated, but don't wing coasters and 2nd-gen inverts basically use the same restraints as flyers?

[MagnumFreak25]

Essentially, yes but with a different locking mechanism and no ankle restraints. And a flying dive machine would be so fun.

[Intimidator305]

I feel like with the rumored somewhat low $15 million, we won't be seeing anything too innovative. Where'd that figure come from? Sandusky Register?

[DoinItForTheFame]

I feel like with the rumored somewhat low $15 million, we won't be seeing anything too innovative. Where'd that figure come from? Sandusky Register?

 

I'm with you. I'd like to know where the $15 million price tag came from. Because if so the coaster is going to end up smaller than Griffon.

[grsupercity]

New track design, minimum supports, you never know!

[DrachenfireOP]

As others have said though, the $15mm might be for design only. If that's just what B&M is getting before any fabrication, this thing could get crazy. Also, like all leaked data, we don't even know if that statistic is valid. I'm not holding my breath for a "one of a kind" ride, but I won't count one out until the press release. Glad it's likely coming soon!

[DoinItForTheFame]

I'm not holding my breath for a "one of a kind" ride, but I won't count one out until the press release.

 

I might be in the minority here, but I am holding my breath for a "One Of A Kind" ride... Or at least a record breaking coaster. I mean... This is Cedar Point... They don't really build clones, or coasters that are not "One Of A Kind." Generally what they build is either a first, or it breaks a record in some way... But only time will tell for this coaster. I can not wait for the official press release.

[Nwstone]

If the rumors are true, this coaster will break records the same way gatekeeper broke records, being the tallest and fastest of its coaster type.

[DoinItForTheFame]

If the rumors are true, this coaster will break records the same way gatekeeper broke records, being the tallest and fastest of its coaster type.

 

Better than no new coaster at all!

[Gutterflower]

Personally as i said in the B&M Factory thread I'm pretty sure the brown is dive machine track. (of course i cant be 100% sure) but DM track is the only B&M track to have 10 bolts across. The rest have 6 as far as i can tell.

There is also a brown piece with 8 but it appears to be station track.

 

Wing rider track

 

Brown track at factory

 

Shiekra track.

[DoinItForTheFame]

Maybe we are all wrong... Maybe Cedar Point is getting a 500+ft coaster built by B&M for less than $15 million.