valleyfairfanatic Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 In certain areas of the park, yes. There are other areas where Flying Cloud Airport's location would not prevent them from erecting a 300' tall structure. Then again, what would Cedar Fair build in a park that tall that I'd wanna ride...? *scratches head* Oh forget it! Let's just say they can't build that tall anywhere in the park ever. Yup! That's my answer. Can and will are two different things. Up above you bragged about PT. I'll take Detonator over PT any day. At least you get a pop of air at the top of Detonator. PT is extremely boring for a Space Shot and not much better on the Turbo Drop side. I get it. You're a fan boy of VF and that's cute. However the ride selection is bigger and better at WOF. There is not a single attraction at VF that does not have an equal (if not better) attraction it can be compared to at WOF - and the sad part is that even covers Haunt. >Accuses poster of being a fanboy >Procedes to boast how much better of a park theirs is Is it me or do I find this quote ironic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyman6 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Wow! vicious aren't we? I just have to point out one thing. Phantom poster mentioned that Valleyfair has never had a prestigious title bestowed upon it. I'm not sure what qualified as prestigious but without the success of Wild Thing, Mamba may never have been built. Wild Thing was the first Morgan hyper and it was the 5th tallest coaster in the world when it opened. It also currently holds the record for the longest low gravity section of any coaster. After the first drop that second hill is amazing. I also get a kick out of the fact that an airport height restriction kept Power Tower from being even taller. Anyway, I'm looking forward to this season and upcoming seasons because Cedar Fair has mention several times now that Valleyfair has been earmarked as a growth park. The past few years have been laying the ground work for this. Cedar Fair has pumped in more than 30 million in the past 7 or so years, so to say they have done nothing is just plain wrong! I thought that the post you referenced was clear enough. One could also argue that without Detonator, Power Tower would not exist. Also mentioned in the thread several times is how you VF fanboys keep pointing at the "growth park" comment as the "source" for the foaming. The fact is, VF has received the same or lower in terms of capital expenditures when compared to other parks in the chain since the comment was first made. One would think if the company was serious about it you would have seen a significant increase in CES but that's not been the case. Really hard to market infrastructure improvements Do You really think that Cedar Fair has the Capital expenditure funds to do all three parks at once? or even 2 parks at once? Like I said, CF has been building the infrastructure at VF for at least 5 to 7 years now. When they decide to follow through on their comments VF will be ready for the increased attendance. Remember, a few years ago they built a completely new catering facility in Picnic Point that seats thousands and can produce 3000 meals an hour. So far, I've never seen it come close to full. So why build it? Next, VF has a pending permit to have the Army Corp of Engineers extend the berm around the park to the west that would effectively add at least 30% more buildable space. VF has the land to expand, its just going to cost more because of the improvements needed to develop the land. Mr. Ouimet doesn't just utter meaningless words. Everything he says publicly is carefully orchestrated due to the fact that CF is a publicly traded corp. One may ask why VF did not get any of the used flats they gathered in Europe and WOF gets two and Carowinds get the rest. Is it maybe because VF already has a superior line up of flats to either park? Naw, couldn't be that! Well maybe it could. I've been to Carowinds not to long ago and while its a great park it did really lack a good flat ride line up. And if you want to call me a VF fanboy, I'll gladly accept that compliment thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomPoster32 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 In certain areas of the park, yes. There are other areas where Flying Cloud Airport's location would not prevent them from erecting a 300' tall structure. Then again, what would Cedar Fair build in a park that tall that I'd wanna ride...? *scratches head* Oh forget it! Let's just say they can't build that tall anywhere in the park ever. Yup! That's my answer. Can and will are two different things. Up above you bragged about PT. I'll take Detonator over PT any day. At least you get a pop of air at the top of Detonator. PT is extremely boring for a Space Shot and not much better on the Turbo Drop side. I get it. You're a fan boy of VF and that's cute. However the ride selection is bigger and better at WOF. There is not a single attraction at VF that does not have an equal (if not better) attraction it can be compared to at WOF - and the sad part is that even covers Haunt. >Accuses poster of being a fanboy >Procedes to boast how much better of a park theirs is Is it me or do I find this quote ironic? OP was acting like a fanboy Poster responding was showing how OP's post bashing another park to "build up" their park was inaccurate Does not fit perameters of being an irony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazma Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Although I don't post much, I do follow all the threads for the Cedar Fair parks. What is not noted here is that Cedar Fair received tax credits if they put a certain amount of capital into Carowinds. If I recall correctly, the posturing pitted KD against Carowinds for where to put their cap ex. We see that Carowinds was the winner and KD has had smaller improvements since, like many of the smaller (in terms of attendance) CF properties. CGA is a totally different case. With the stadium, and the current agreement, change is required. California law eliminated redevelopment agencies. Across the street from KBF, the city of Buena Park owns a lot of land that was once older motels and also the old Bud Hurlbut property adjacent to KBF. Buena Park, like Santa Clara, has to now dispose of this land OR the State gets the land back. That's the gist of it anyway. CF also is required to pay certain % of profits over a certain $$$ amount to Santa Clara. Under Kinzel, their wasn't a lot of incentive to invest a lot of cash in CGA. Originally, CF didn't want this property, if I recall correctly, but it was an all or nothing package deal. Yes, they tried to sell it, then Ouimet came in and saw things differently and relations improved between the City and 49'ers. CGA is the only property they do not own the land (apart from GG which is only a management contract.) The land has to be sold now. If CF gets that land, they operate it more like their other parks. The revenue sharing with Santa Clara would be eliminated, giving CF the ability to keep more cash on the table. Increased profits=more capex for the park. I've been to VF once, and it's a great park. I too hope to see continued improvements. But I think the "growth park" statement has resulted in unfair comparisons to what happened in Charlotte and what's now playing out in Santa Clara. Each property is unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomPoster32 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Wow! vicious aren't we? I just have to point out one thing. Phantom poster mentioned that Valleyfair has never had a prestigious title bestowed upon it. I'm not sure what qualified as prestigious but without the success of Wild Thing, Mamba may never have been built. Wild Thing was the first Morgan hyper and it was the 5th tallest coaster in the world when it opened. It also currently holds the record for the longest low gravity section of any coaster. After the first drop that second hill is amazing. I also get a kick out of the fact that an airport height restriction kept Power Tower from being even taller. Anyway, I'm looking forward to this season and upcoming seasons because Cedar Fair has mention several times now that Valleyfair has been earmarked as a growth park. The past few years have been laying the ground work for this. Cedar Fair has pumped in more than 30 million in the past 7 or so years, so to say they have done nothing is just plain wrong! I thought that the post you referenced was clear enough. One could also argue that without Detonator, Power Tower would not exist. Also mentioned in the thread several times is how you VF fanboys keep pointing at the "growth park" comment as the "source" for the foaming. The fact is, VF has received the same or lower in terms of capital expenditures when compared to other parks in the chain since the comment was first made. One would think if the company was serious about it you would have seen a significant increase in CES but that's not been the case. Really hard to market infrastructure improvements Do You really think that Cedar Fair has the Capital expenditure funds to do all three parks at once? or even 2 parks at once? Like I said, CF has been building the infrastructure at VF for at least 5 to 7 years now. When they decide to follow through on their comments VF will be ready for the increased attendance. Remember, a few years ago they built a completely new catering facility in Picnic Point that seats thousands and can produce 3000 meals an hour. So far, I've never seen it come close to full. So why build it? Next, VF has a pending permit to have the Army Corp of Engineers extend the berm around the park to the west that would effectively add at least 30% more buildable space. VF has the land to expand, its just going to cost more because of the improvements needed to develop the land. Mr. Ouimet doesn't just utter meaningless words. Everything he says publicly is carefully orchestrated due to the fact that CF is a publicly traded corp. One may ask why VF did not get any of the used flats they gathered in Europe and WOF gets two and Carowinds get the rest. Is it maybe because VF already has a superior line up of flats to either park? Naw, couldn't be that! Well maybe it could. I've been to Carowinds not to long ago and while its a great park it did really lack a good flat ride line up. And if you want to call me a VF fanboy, I'll gladly accept that compliment thank you very much! No I do not - which has been the gist of my comments since the start. I also feel that VF will move down the priority list now with CGA taking over the top priority here in the coming years. The ROI will be higher and faster there than VF due to a larger market and a longer operating season. Regarding the flat ride lineup comment - you probably need to take another look at that and revise your statement. If you want to take pride in being called a VF fanboy, more power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKA 'Playa Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I get it. You're a fan boy of VF and that's cute. No, you don't get it. I'm not a CF 'fanboy' at all. If I didn't live near VF or WoF, I'd skip them both. I haven't bothered with WoF during my last three KC visits even when admission was already paid for. Schlitterbahn > WoF+OoF says me, my wife and our wallets. Nor would I bother with Cedar Point when there's a park with better coasters, more slides and even cleaner bathrooms in Chicago. Of CP's 2.5 latest coasters, none of them interest me. Just my opinion. If you're gonna call me a fanboy of any park...? At least name the right one! Blackpool Pleasure Beach. But I digress. You guys can get back to the 'bestest CF park Kinzel tried to chuck' debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I've been to VF once, and it's a great park. I too hope to see continued improvements. But I think the "growth park" statement has resulted in unfair comparisons to what happened in Charlotte and what's now playing out in Santa Clara. Each property is unique. This. Valleyfair's growth is going to be appropriate for Valleyfair's market, and what that means is not really clear (but endlessly fun to speculate for me). The first thing Cedar Fair needs to do is ensure they can legally expand the park on their own land. Fact remains they want to do some major work in the back of the park and need Army Corps permission to do so. The paperwork was submitted in 2015 and that process of approval/denial can easily take a year or more. Seems to me the park management is waiting to find out what their options are at this point, and are installing smaller additions until they know more. That's frustrating for us, but it's the right decision. We really don't know what they have in store for VF at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 On a non-VF vs. WOF note, I emailed the park about this and it turns out that there won't be any early entry to the park at 9:30 this year for Gold/Platinum passholders . I can see why though, it seemed like there was hardly anyone that took advantage of that perk whenever I showed up to the park early. Valleyfair's growth is going to be appropriate for Valleyfair's market, and what that means is not really clear (but endlessly fun to speculate for me). The first thing Cedar Fair needs to do is ensure they can legally expand the park on their own land. Fact remains they want to do some major work in the back of the park and need Army Corps permission to do so. The paperwork was submitted in 2015 and that process of approval/denial can easily take a year or more. Seems to me the park management is waiting to find out what their options are at this point, and are installing smaller additions until they know more. That's frustrating for us, but it's the right decision. We really don't know what they have in store for VF at this time. I agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Mojo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 With this new development coming to light for California's Great America, I can only see it postponing Valleyfair getting a massive B&M gate coaster. But I do believe we'll still see VF get a waterpark expansion in the next two years. Cedar Point will get theirs first in 2017, but I think 2018 will be the year VF gets their expansion. There are rumors out there that Kings Island will get their B&M gate coaster next year followed by Canada's Wonderland getting a B&M invert in 2018. CGA will probably get their B&M in 2019. Which means VF will be competing with Kings Dominion for a B&M in 2020. My money is on Kings Dominion. It's just my opinion, but I don't see Valleyfair getting a major coaster anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 With this new development coming to light for California's Great America, I can only see it postponing Valleyfair getting a massive B&M gate coaster. But I do believe we'll still see VF get a waterpark expansion in the next two years. Cedar Point will get theirs first in 2017, but I think 2018 will be the year VF gets their expansion. There are rumors out there that Kings Island will get their B&M gate coaster next year followed by Canada's Wonderland getting a B&M invert in 2018. CGA will probably get their B&M in 2019. Which means VF will be competing with Kings Dominion for a B&M in 2020. My money is on Kings Dominion. It's just my opinion, but I don't see Valleyfair getting a major coaster anytime soon. Considering how Dorney's got 2 B&Ms but the park's biggest draw is its waterpark, I agree with this. Cedar Fair probably isn't too pressed about getting additional coasters when waterpark additions are cheaper and draw more guests. Valleyfair's waterpark is also severely undersized. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get a Carowinds-esque expansion (second wave pool, some more slide complexes, large and colorful splash pad) if the Army Corps approves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWingRider Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 No I do not - which has been the gist of my comments since the start. I also feel that VF will move down the priority list now with CGA taking over the top priority here in the coming years. The ROI will be higher and faster there than VF due to a larger market and a longer operating season. Regarding the flat ride lineup comment - you probably need to take another look at that and revise your statement. If you want to take pride in being called a VF fanboy, more power to you. Oh! That's so tempting to respond to! Hold it back... your done with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWingRider Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 With this new development coming to light for California's Great America, I can only see it postponing Valleyfair getting a massive B&M gate coaster. But I do believe we'll still see VF get a waterpark expansion in the next two years. Cedar Point will get theirs first in 2017, but I think 2018 will be the year VF gets their expansion. There are rumors out there that Kings Island will get their B&M gate coaster next year followed by Canada's Wonderland getting a B&M invert in 2018. CGA will probably get their B&M in 2019. Which means VF will be competing with Kings Dominion for a B&M in 2020. My money is on Kings Dominion. Woah woah woah slow down there. That's like four years from now can you really trust vague rumors that far out? I also think KD would get a coaster sooner because that would be ten years and I am surprised they didn't get a new coaster this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKA 'Playa Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) I've been to VF once, and it's a great park. I too hope to see continued improvements. But I think the "growth park" statement has resulted in unfair comparisons to what happened in Charlotte and what's now playing out in Santa Clara. Each property is unique. I'm not so sure I'd call them unfair. Seeking Alpha allows quotations of up to 400 words from earnings transcripts, provided they are credited and their site is linked. I credited, I linked. So here's exactly what was said Q3 2015. From the park growth standpoint...I probably did a poor job on Carowinds because I think we underestimated the potential of that park. And even given what we had assumed going in with our new CapEx it is exceeding our expectations and has for the first time jumped over the hurdle of 2 million plus in attendance. We are doing the same type of exercises that we did for Carowinds, as we had mentioned before for Valleyfair and for Great America and to some degree for our other parks and I am optimistic..I don’t know that the opportunity will be the same size as Carowinds but I think that given our success at Carowinds it makes us beyond curious for what might happen at Valleyfair and Great America. It was their choice to cite both parks in the same sentence repeatedly. Not the VF fanboys. It will take a lot more effort to push CGA's zoning changes through the political process; it's only right they work on that first. VF's 'neighbors' are mostly industrial--and I have yet to hear of any group assembling to oppose any of it. Without any significant public dissent, VF's proposed changes will likely sail through. If they haven't already... Edited March 31, 2016 by FKA 'Playa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Mojo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 With this new development coming to light for California's Great America, I can only see it postponing Valleyfair getting a massive B&M gate coaster. But I do believe we'll still see VF get a waterpark expansion in the next two years. Cedar Point will get theirs first in 2017, but I think 2018 will be the year VF gets their expansion. There are rumors out there that Kings Island will get their B&M gate coaster next year followed by Canada's Wonderland getting a B&M invert in 2018. CGA will probably get their B&M in 2019. Which means VF will be competing with Kings Dominion for a B&M in 2020. My money is on Kings Dominion. Woah woah woah slow down there. That's like four years from now can you really trust vague rumors that far out? I also think KD would get a coaster sooner because that would be ten years and I am surprised they didn't get a new coaster this year. Well if you think that rumor is too much try this one on for size. Carowinds ships their Dinosaurs Live to CGA and Carowinds gets a new GCI in that spot in 2018. I'm even thinking Cedar Point gets a new CGI in 2020. But sadly, still no new coaster for Valleyfair. You heard it here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millertpr Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 WOF Fanatic and Buffalo Wing Rider, you are both the most annoying little fanboy brats in the world. Why don't you jut shut up and not ruin the thread with all of your crap. WOF Fanatic, Worlds of Fun hasn't got anything decent in years, and they aren't going to be up for another coaster in a long, long time. Their flat ride collection sucks as well. And there's no reason to be boasting and talking about WOF on a Valleyfair forum, so let's just be done with that. Now, on another hand, I think that the CGA announcement is impactful for Valleyfair. We all know that Oumiet told us that we are one of the three parks where we could see expansion. We hadn't heard about this for quite a long time. Knowing that even CGA is getting a large expansion and even a rezoning should be VERY good news for Valleyfair fans. A major expansion is now inevitable at Valleyfair and fans can shriek for joy at an addition of a coaster in the next couple of years. My guess is that next year is still a possibility --> I just think the park needs thrilling flat rides a little more, and either a starflyer/wind seeker, a Gerstlauter spinny thing that CW is getting, or something else could be coming to Valleyfair. Who knows? Guessing is the fun part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureJack Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 but PT is complete A$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBobs Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 WOF Fanatic and Buffalo Wing Rider, you are both the most annoying little fanboy brats in the world. Why don't you jut shut up and not ruin the thread with all of your crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWingRider Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 WOF Fanatic and Buffalo Wing Rider, you are both the most annoying little fanboy brats in the world. Why don't you jut shut up and not ruin the thread with all of your crap. WOF Fanatic, Worlds of Fun hasn't got anything decent in years, and they aren't going to be up for another coaster in a long, long time. Their flat ride collection sucks as well. And there's no reason to be boasting and talking about WOF on a Valleyfair forum, so let's just be done with that. You are no better because you just trashed WoF and no one has said anything about those ads you left but they were pretty annoying too. This threads decency was long gone before any of this started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOFanatic Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 WOF Fanatic and Buffalo Wing Rider, you are both the most annoying little fanboy brats in the world. Why don't you jut shut up and not ruin the thread with all of your crap. WOF Fanatic, Worlds of Fun hasn't got anything decent in years, and they aren't going to be up for another coaster in a long, long time. Their flat ride collection sucks as well. And there's no reason to be boasting and talking about WOF on a Valleyfair forum, so let's just be done with that. I find it funny that even though this conversation ended mutually and respectfully, you have to bring to life a dead corpse. You are acting like some giant war is taking place. Meanwhile, BuffaloWingRider and I are laughing at your attempt to start drama again. but PT is complete A$$. The forum auto corrects it to that. I put the original word and it was changed in post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meghna Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 WOF Fanatic and Buffalo Wing Rider, you are both the most annoying little fanboy brats in the world. Why don't you jut shut up and not ruin the thread with all of your crap. WOF Fanatic, Worlds of Fun hasn't got anything decent in years, and they aren't going to be up for another coaster in a long, long time. Their flat ride collection sucks as well. And there's no reason to be boasting and talking about WOF on a Valleyfair forum, so let's just be done with that. I find it funny that even though this conversation ended mutually and respectfully, you have to bring to life a dead corpse. You are acting like some giant war is taking place. Meanwhile, BuffaloWingRider and I are laughing at your attempt to start drama again. . Whenever any of us ends a discussion on this thread, someone always has to rile it up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWingRider Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 2016 award of the truest thing ever said: that ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainUnknown Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Well, there's not all that much else to do during a Minnesota off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Well, there's not all that much else to do during a Minnesota off-season. 43 days until opening day. It can't come soon enough. (38 until the season passholder preview ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOFanatic Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 WOF Fanatic and Buffalo Wing Rider, you are both the most annoying little fanboy brats in the world. Why don't you jut shut up and not ruin the thread with all of your crap. WOF Fanatic, Worlds of Fun hasn't got anything decent in years, and they aren't going to be up for another coaster in a long, long time. Their flat ride collection sucks as well. And there's no reason to be boasting and talking about WOF on a Valleyfair forum, so let's just be done with that. I find it funny that even though this conversation ended mutually and respectfully, you have to bring to life a dead corpse. You are acting like some giant war is taking place. Meanwhile, BuffaloWingRider and I are laughing at your attempt to start drama again. . Whenever any of us ends a discussion on this thread, someone always has to rile it up again. Speaking of which, did you hear that Camp Snoopy is Planet Snoopy now? New rides and everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meghna Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I have no idea what you are trying to say there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now