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The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

Page 2228 - Wonder Woman Flight of Courage REAL POV!

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I don't understand why anyone would be sad to see Viper leave. It's time has come and gone. It's not THAT good.

 

Not sure if Viper is going anywhere and I'm also not a land developer so this is just a crap shoot. Seems the Newhall Ranch Development has gotten the go ahead and build out might start soon as Mission and Landmark Villages have been green lighted. You can see this one map shop that the side of SFMM with new build out is listed as Commericial area. So if redoing that area along side Viper and Roaring Rapids and old Deja Vue are SFMM better make changes quick. My first bet is no new changes for SFMM for 2018 except selling all 260 acres off for over a billion dollars as the time has come.... RIP SFMM

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So if redoing that area along side Viper and Roaring Rapids and old Deja Vue are SFMM better make changes quick. My first bet is no new changes for SFMM for 2018 except selling all 260 acres off for over a billion dollars as the time has come.... RIP SFMM

They'd be out of their minds to purchase SFMM for 1 billion dollars (the park isn't even worth that much), and not even be guaranteed to build whatever they plan to do right away. There'd probably be just as much red tape as they experienced trying to build around the park for 20 some odd years. I can't imagine spending 1 billion dollars and having to still fight the city, county, and residents with no foreseeable timeline for a return on investment.

 

And imagine the mad house Valencia would turn into, trying to dismantle MM as well as construct 21,000 homes. The residents would never go for that, SFMM aint going no where.

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I don't understand why anyone would be sad to see Viper leave. It's time has come and gone. It's not THAT good.

 

The same reason anyone is sad to see a nostalgic ride leave, one that is almost 30 years old and was the face of the park for a decade.

 

I actually dig Viper a lot. That first drop in the back seat is phenomenal, and it is one freaking intense ride, and a pretty good one at that. I would pick it over a dumb lame B&M dive any day. It doesn't do a whole lot more than give you pretty absurd speed for the first half, then flip you upside down 7 times with the last 4 inversions being pretty awkward, but I'm fine with that. It can be a little rough, but it's old.

 

Viper is iconic.

 

Also I think it's structure is one of the sexiest pieces of roller coaster art in the history of most steel coasters.

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And imagine the mad house Valencia would turn into, trying to dismantle MM as well as construct 21,000 homes. The residents would never go for that, SFMM aint going no where.

 

SFMM and Newhall Ranch are in a relatively far flung corner of the valley here. About 99% of Valencia residents would be almost totally unaffected.

 

For what it's worth, the vast majority of residents do NOT want Newhall Ranch built and never have in the 20+ years this fight has lasted. With I-5 between 14 and Castaic now under construction through 2022 or longer for multiple projects, the timing to start building Newhall Ranch couldn't be worse.

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SFMM is not going to be sold. If SF didn't sell it 10 years ago when it was having financial difficulties, they certainly aren't going to sell it now. SFMM has the highest attendance in the whole chain and saw a 7% increase in 2016. The moves they've made in the last few years (Yolo, TC, TNR, JL:BFM, HITP) seem to be resonating with the GP and the continued increase in attendance is proof that their strategy is working.

Edited by VegasBaby
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I don't understand why anyone would be sad to see Viper leave. It's time has come and gone. It's not THAT good.

 

Not sure if Viper is going anywhere and I'm also not a land developer so this is just a crap shoot. Seems the Newhall Ranch Development has gotten the go ahead and build out might start soon as Mission and Landmark Villages have been green lighted. You can see this one map shop that the side of SFMM with new build out is listed as Commericial area. So if redoing that area along side Viper and Roaring Rapids and old Deja Vue are SFMM better make changes quick. My first bet is no new changes for SFMM for 2018 except selling all 260 acres off for over a billion dollars as the time has come.... RIP SFMM

 

 

Welll lets see how it plays out as John Duffey resigned yesterday 7/19

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Hey folks, planning a trip for end of August. Havent been to the park since the YOLOcoaster was brand new (and I didnt get to ride it because the line closed before the park did).

 

Looking at the hours for the end of August...

 

10:30am to 6pm

 

Even on Fridays.

 

WTF

 

Has that always been the case? I used to go to the park 1-2 times a year and I can never remember leaving before dark, never mind at 6 freaking pm.

 

For comparison, Great Adventure is open until 10pm for the entire month of August, as is New England, which is a small park. Universal looks to close at 7pm, but opens early at 8am.

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Hey folks, planning a trip for end of August. Havent been to the park since the YOLOcoaster was brand new (and I didnt get to ride it because the line closed before the park did).

 

Looking at the hours for the end of August...

 

10:30am to 6pm

 

Even on Fridays.

 

WTF

 

Has that always been the case? I used to go to the park 1-2 times a year and I can never remember leaving before dark, never mind at 6 freaking pm.

 

For comparison, Great Adventure is open until 10pm for the entire month of August, as is New England, which is a small park. Universal looks to close at 7pm, but opens early at 8am.

That depends on what day you're going. If you're going on a Friday or Saturday, then they're open until 8 or 9 pm because they expect to be busier. If you're going during the week, then they close at 6pm because they don't expect to be busy at the end of the day and don't want to keep rides running and employees standing around doing nothing when the park is empty.

 

The good news is since they expect to be dead and are closing at 6, chances are the lines will be short all day.

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That depends on what day you're going. If you're going on a Friday or Saturday, then they're open until 8 or 9 pm because they expect to be busier. If you're going during the week, then they close at 6pm because they don't expect to be busy at the end of the day and don't want to keep rides running and employees standing around doing nothing when the park is empty.

 

The good news is since they expect to be dead and are closing at 6, chances are the lines will be short all day.

 

I am looking at Friday!

 

https://www.sixflags.com/magicmountain/plan-your-visit/park-operating-schedule

 

Friday 25: 10:30am to 6:00pm

 

Even 9pm on Saturday seems early for summer. Again, the east coast parks are open until 10pm even on Wednesdays!

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Most LA area schools will be back in session by Aug 25th, so I would expect the park to be pretty dead that day. You shouldn't have any trouble riding everything in the park despite the early closing time.

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Most LA area schools will be back in session by Aug 25th, so I would expect the park to be pretty dead that day. You shouldn't have any trouble riding everything in the park despite the early closing time.

Yeah Fridays during that time period are in my opinion the best time of the entire year to go to the park. They're just barely busy enough to warrant being open, so everything is a walk-on. I'm going next Friday the 28th, and I don't think it will be as busy as when you're going, but I hope it will at least be not as busy as the following Saturday and Sunday. I don't need to hit everything anyway, I just decided last minute to stop at the park on my way anyway since I'm going down to Pasadena to catch Giants/Dodgers at Chavez Ravine and Metallica at The Rose Bowl.

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Most LA area schools will be back in session by Aug 25th, so I would expect the park to be pretty dead that day. You shouldn't have any trouble riding everything in the park despite the early closing time.

 

I hope thats the case.

 

I still want night rides though, theyre the best rides.

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Honestly don't see Viper going anywhere soon. If anything, they'll probably just add new trains to it and market it as "The New Viper". With Knott's supposedly building a new major coaster next year, and with Disneyland nearing the completion of Star Wars land, I don't doubt that SF is exploring the possibility of building a new 20+ million dollar coaster as the park will have to invest quite a bit in the coming years to remain relevant. So here's my prediction:

2018: Renovated Viper and a new Zamperla Giant Discovery.

2019: New 20+ million dollar coaster.

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Honestly don't see Viper going anywhere soon. If anything, they'll probably just add new trains to it and market it as "The New Viper". With Knott's supposedly building a new major coaster next year, and with Disneyland nearing the completion of Star Wars land, I don't doubt that SF is exploring the possibility of building a new 20+ million dollar coaster as the park will have to invest quite a bit in the coming years to remain relevant. So here's my prediction:

2018: Renovated Viper and a new Zamperla Giant Discovery.

2019: New 20+ million dollar coaster.

 

 

SF spending 20+M on a coaster? They don't do it b/c of their post bankruptcy Capital expenditure formula. SF EBIDTA is thru the roof without big coasters, there is no reason to change. They have set a 750M Modified EBIDTA goal for 2020, they are at 545M in last annual report. The investment strategy is not changing.

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Honestly don't see Viper going anywhere soon. If anything, they'll probably just add new trains to it and market it as "The New Viper". With Knott's supposedly building a new major coaster next year, and with Disneyland nearing the completion of Star Wars land, I don't doubt that SF is exploring the possibility of building a new 20+ million dollar coaster as the park will have to invest quite a bit in the coming years to remain relevant. So here's my prediction:

2018: Renovated Viper and a new Zamperla Giant Discovery.

2019: New 20+ million dollar coaster.

 

 

SF spending 20+M on a coaster? They don't do it b/c of their post bankruptcy Capital expenditure formula. SF EBIDTA is thru the roof without big coasters, there is no reason to change. They have set a 750M Modified EBIDTA goal for 2020, they are at 545M in last annual report. The investment strategy is not changing.

 

Guys listen to him he's 100% correct he's an expert SF will be installing nothing more than S&S free spins, justice Leagues , larson loops and giant discoveries for the rest of their history. The idea of SF spending conservatively to be able to spend on something big is just impossible and according to the experts SF 2018 will be Skywarp for every park lol

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Honestly don't see Viper going anywhere soon. If anything, they'll probably just add new trains to it and market it as "The New Viper". With Knott's supposedly building a new major coaster next year, and with Disneyland nearing the completion of Star Wars land, I don't doubt that SF is exploring the possibility of building a new 20+ million dollar coaster as the park will have to invest quite a bit in the coming years to remain relevant. So here's my prediction:

2018: Renovated Viper and a new Zamperla Giant Discovery.

2019: New 20+ million dollar coaster.

 

 

SF spending 20+M on a coaster? They don't do it b/c of their post bankruptcy Capital expenditure formula. SF EBIDTA is thru the roof without big coasters, there is no reason to change. They have set a 750M Modified EBIDTA goal for 2020, they are at 545M in last annual report. The investment strategy is not changing.

 

Guys listen to him he's 100% correct he's an expert SF will be installing nothing more than S&S free spins, justice Leagues , larson loops and giant discoveries for the rest of their history. The idea of SF spending conservatively to be able to spend on something big is just impossible and according to the experts SF 2018 will be Skywarp for every park lol

 

 

It's not SF spending conservatively to be able to spend on something big. This is they are saving up notion, which is put out by people that don't know the finances. SF is actually not saving up, they are actually spending slightly more in dollar amount each year. SF cap expenditures never exceeds 9% of revenue, Of that 9%, 60% goes to actual rides. They were touting in their investment presentation that they never over 9%. They also said that % will essentially decrease as revenue grows. Also, the foreign revenue does not count in calculating cap expenditures for North American parks. They said in no uncertain terms they are happy with the spending level which is just under 75M/yr on rides. Spending 75M/yr, which is their happy spot essentially and it prevents them from spending 20-25M on 1 coaster, while giving all 13 parks something each year. SF by design is going to "live: in the lower end of the coaster market. They aren't going to be CF building gigas, massive wings, massive dives, massive inverts like Fury 325, Gatekeeper, Valravyn, Banshee, etc.. You either don't understand SF clear strategy, which has been successful financially, while relying heavily on cheap cloned rides or you are in denial. They are not saving up for something big, that's not how SF works and they are transparent about it.

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Honestly don't see Viper going anywhere soon. If anything, they'll probably just add new trains to it and market it as "The New Viper". With Knott's supposedly building a new major coaster next year, and with Disneyland nearing the completion of Star Wars land, I don't doubt that SF is exploring the possibility of building a new 20+ million dollar coaster as the park will have to invest quite a bit in the coming years to remain relevant. So here's my prediction:

2018: Renovated Viper and a new Zamperla Giant Discovery.

2019: New 20+ million dollar coaster.

 

 

SF spending 20+M on a coaster? They don't do it b/c of their post bankruptcy Capital expenditure formula. SF EBIDTA is thru the roof without big coasters, there is no reason to change. They have set a 750M Modified EBIDTA goal for 2020, they are at 545M in last annual report. The investment strategy is not changing.

 

Guys listen to him he's 100% correct he's an expert SF will be installing nothing more than S&S free spins, justice Leagues , larson loops and giant discoveries for the rest of their history. The idea of SF spending conservatively to be able to spend on something big is just impossible and according to the experts SF 2018 will be Skywarp for every park lol

 

 

It's not SF spending conservatively to be able to spend on something big. This is they are saving up notion, which is put out by people that don't know the finances. SF is actually not saving up, they are actually spending slightly more in dollar amount each year. SF cap expenditures never exceeds 9% of revenue, Of that 9%, 60% goes to actual rides. They were touting in their investment presentation that they never over 9%. They also said that % will essentially decrease as revenue grows. Also, the foreign revenue does not count in calculating cap expenditures for North American parks. They said in no uncertain terms they are happy with the spending level which is just under 75M/yr on rides. Spending 75M/yr, which is their happy spot essentially and it prevents them from spending 20-25M on 1 coaster, while giving all 13 parks something each year. SF by design is going to "live: in the lower end of the coaster market. They aren't going to be CF building gigas, massive wings, massive dives, massive inverts like Fury 325, Gatekeeper, Valravyn, Banshee, etc.. You either don't understand SF clear strategy, which has been successful financially, while relying heavily on cheap cloned rides or you are in denial. They are not saving up for something big, that's not how SF works and they are transparent about it.

 

I agree with you that this current strategy works for the company and will not change in 2018. But a lot of that success can be credited to the massive success of the Justice League and RMC additions. In order to maintain their current success, they will need to continue to find rides that offer major bang for smaller bucks, which is no easy feat. it will be very interesting to see where SF looks next for that bang once every park has a JL and RMC.

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I agree with you that this current strategy works for the company and will not change in 2018. But a lot of that success can be credited to the massive success of the Justice League and RMC additions. In order to maintain their current success, they will need to continue to find rides that offer major bang for smaller bucks, which is no easy feat. it will be very interesting to see where SF looks next for that bang once every park has a JL and RMC.

 

The big hint "based on the investor presentations is "water coasters" are going to be cloned, He spoke of their relative low cost and popularity. He spoke about them in the same vane as Justice League'sand 4D's as being the cornerstone of the past and water coasters were hinted as the future..ie...one of the new clones. I would not be surprised in the next few years to see SF try some of the S&S concept coasters. Skywarps, and plenty of parks don't yet have Zamperla Giant Discoveries.

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Massively successful JL's? I've read ridership has fallen off big time at the parks where they have been installed, on Sunday JL at the mountain had a 15 minute line....'18 sky tower, revamp. Speaking of which, they shoulda left the beer sauna out and put a bar in the sky tower next year when they put it back in service.

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Massively successful JL's? I've read ridership has fallen off big time at the parks where they have been installed, on Sunday JL at the mountain had a 15 minute line....'18 sky tower, revamp

 

There have been anecdotes at other parks of JL's falling off too. What were 1 -2 hour waits are now 15-20 minutes, sometimes less. But to most they are a success and SF thinks so. I was never a fan of them to start, as I was skeptical of them, as well as the 4D Free fly's long term staying power. Neither IMO is going to be viewed as a solid ride 20+ years later like the B&M Batman invert clones.

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Honestly don't see Viper going anywhere soon. If anything, they'll probably just add new trains to it and market it as "The New Viper". With Knott's supposedly building a new major coaster next year, and with Disneyland nearing the completion of Star Wars land, I don't doubt that SF is exploring the possibility of building a new 20+ million dollar coaster as the park will have to invest quite a bit in the coming years to remain relevant. So here's my prediction:

2018: Renovated Viper and a new Zamperla Giant Discovery.

2019: New 20+ million dollar coaster.

 

Think about it: 20+ million for #20.

 

Also, I did not mind Viper at all. I thought it was pretty strong for an Arrow. Little to no headbanging, not too rough

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Massively successful JL's? I've read ridership has fallen off big time at the parks where they have been installed, on Sunday JL at the mountain had a 15 minute line....'18 sky tower, revamp

 

There have been anecdotes at other parks of JL's falling off too. What were 1 -2 hour waits are now 15-20 minutes, sometimes less. But to most they are a success and SF thinks so. I was never a fan of them to start, as I was skeptical of them, as well as the 4D Free fly's long term staying power. Neither IMO is going to be viewed as a solid ride 20+ years later like the B&M Batman invert clones.

 

The JL rides don't need to perform as well as multi million dollar coasters to be considered a major success for Six Flags. The fact that they have been replicated across the chain for a fraction of the cost of a multi million dollar coaster IS the success.

 

I will say that I bet Six Flags will be keeping a close eye on how this does at a hard core thrill park like SFMM. That is the one possible wrinkle in their strategy. The SFMM teen crowd isn't going to show up for Super Loops and Sky Screamers long term. Eventually they will need to put a major thrill ride in that park. At least on the scale of a Yolo or TC. Moderately priced coasters that LOOK deceptively expensive.

 

Vekoma, S&S, Mack and others have recently announced a bunch of those.

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Think about it: 20+ million for #20.

 

Also, I did not mind Viper at all. I thought it was pretty strong for an Arrow. Little to no headbanging, not too rough

For many, including myself, Viper is a bit of a headbanger and is easily the least most popular coaster at the mountain (besides the kiddie coasters). Hence why Viper is almost always a walk-on when other coasters consistently have a solid queue. In terms of its fate at the park, SF will probably just repaint it, order new trains, add a new lighting package, re-theme the queue, and add new landscaping to the immediate area and call it "The New Viper" or "Viper 2". This way, the park can market it as a "new thrilling coaster", while only spending $1-$2 million on the renovation. And I'm sure that the GP would eat it up just like they did with "The New Revolution".

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Hey folks, planning a trip for end of August. Havent been to the park since the YOLOcoaster was brand new (and I didnt get to ride it because the line closed before the park did).

 

Looking at the hours for the end of August...

 

10:30am to 6pm

 

Even on Fridays.

 

WTF

 

Has that always been the case? I used to go to the park 1-2 times a year and I can never remember leaving before dark, never mind at 6 freaking pm.

 

For comparison, Great Adventure is open until 10pm for the entire month of August, as is New England, which is a small park. Universal looks to close at 7pm, but opens early at 8am.

 

I would guess the park is closing early for some late night private event going on in the park that night. Or it has to do with being on the tail end of summer and during those Friday school days the park is probably going to be relatively dead. I agree that is strange though, I like getting some night rides and having to leave at 6pm is pretty lame!

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Hey folks, planning a trip for end of August. Havent been to the park since the YOLOcoaster was brand new (and I didnt get to ride it because the line closed before the park did).

 

Looking at the hours for the end of August...

 

10:30am to 6pm

 

Even on Fridays.

 

WTF

 

Has that always been the case? I used to go to the park 1-2 times a year and I can never remember leaving before dark, never mind at 6 freaking pm.

 

For comparison, Great Adventure is open until 10pm for the entire month of August, as is New England, which is a small park. Universal looks to close at 7pm, but opens early at 8am.

 

I would guess the park is closing early for some late night private event going on in the park that night. Or it has to do with being on the tail end of summer and during those Friday school days the park is probably going to be relatively dead. I agree that is strange though, I like getting some night rides and having to leave at 6pm is pretty lame!

 

Do you know if there is a way to check if the park is hosting an event?

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