Magic Alumni Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Why not just slow both lifts if dispatching quickly is an issue? They were doing that today. We crawled up the green lift while waiting for the blue side to catch up. Edited May 21, 2015 by Magic Alumni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bf9 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 At first when I heard 30 seconds, I didn't believe it. how could SFMM get stuck in a corner like that? They'd have to know 30 secnods isn't long enough. Looking at this video: it looks to me like this is the timeline: Time in seconds Dispatch: T=0 Reaches Blue Lift: T=30 Reaches Green Lift: T=120 Returns to station: T=240 This gives you 90 seconds between dispatches for the first few trains, but once you reach steady state you're in trouble. Under an ideal situation with 3 train operation: T=0: Train 1 dispatches T=30: Train 1 reaches blue lift T=90: Train 2 dispatches. T=120: Train 1 reaches green lift, Train 2 reaches blue lift. T=180: Train 3 dispatches T=210: Train 2 reaches green lift, Train 3 reaches blue lift And now we get into the spot where we're in trouble. Only 30 seconds turn around for Train 1 T=240: Train 1 returns T=270: train 1 dispatches T=300: Train 3 reaches green lift, Train 1 reaches blue lift. T=330: Train 2 returns T=360: Train 2 dispatches T=390: Train 1 reaches green lift, Train 2 reaches blue lift T=420: Train 3 returns So yes you folks are right. 30second dispatches with 3 trains. I just don't see that happening. Even if you tease the lift hill speeds a bit you're only going to squeeze another 5-10 seconds out of that. This ride doesn't duel without 4 trains. That's what it takes to maintain the 90 second dispatch times. While that analysis is likely correct, this is what bothers me a little bit. Each side is supposedly a variable speed lift right? So why can't the green side for example slow to like a .5 or .2 mph crawl right off the "mcbr", and have the blue side compensate with like say up to 9mph to make up the difference? Once near the top, they are accelerated or decelerated to proper speed and released. You could easily stretch the green lift hill of that length/angle (which is very shallow, gotta be one of the longest 120ft lift hills anywhere) to provide a whole lot of extra time. Ride control systems could even to this entirely automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYTrojan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 While that analysis is likely correct, this is what bothers me a little bit. Each side is supposedly a variable speed lift right? So why can't the green side for example slow to like a .5 or .2 mph crawl right off the "mcbr", and have the blue side compensate with like say up to 9mph to make up the difference? Once near the top, they are accelerated or decelerated to proper speed and released. You could easily stretch the green lift hill of that length/angle (which is very shallow, gotta be one of the longest 120ft lift hills anywhere) to provide a whole lot of extra time. Ride control systems could even to this entirely automatically. That is certainly possible, but when the time you're making up isn't 5 or 10 seconds, but likely 25-30 it gets pretty darn cumbersome. Do you really want to spend 90 seconds on a lift? Does SFMM really want to take the reduced riders per hour numbers that will create? Are you willing to wait in a line that is 25% longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bf9 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 While that analysis is likely correct, this is what bothers me a little bit. Each side is supposedly a variable speed lift right? So why can't the green side for example slow to like a .5 or .2 mph crawl right off the "mcbr", and have the blue side compensate with like say up to 9mph to make up the difference? Once near the top, they are accelerated or decelerated to proper speed and released. You could easily stretch the green lift hill of that length/angle (which is very shallow, gotta be one of the longest 120ft lift hills anywhere) to provide a whole lot of extra time. Ride control systems could even to this entirely automatically. That is certainly possible, but when the time you're making up isn't 5 or 10 seconds, but likely 25-30 it gets pretty darn cumbersome. Do you really want to spend 90 seconds on a lift? Does SFMM really want to take the reduced riders per hour numbers that will create? Are you willing to wait in a line that is 25% longer? I have no problem spending another 60 to even 180 seconds on the second lift hill to constantly duel. As for the longer line, well, I think that could be fixed as well taking several different routes. Another really good idea I have (this will have to come later) is to pull a Maverick and retrack the back of the station to the *edit: ending* of the last green turn and still have two final break runs, but turn the first to a trim section, have that last right turn banked before the straightaway into the station, and have it hit that very last break run with a lot more speed. That allows trains to return to the station much MUCH faster therefore you won't be waiting on that part either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasBaby Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 That is certainly possible, but when the time you're making up isn't 5 or 10 seconds, but likely 25-30 it gets pretty darn cumbersome. Do you really want to spend 90 seconds on a lift? Does SFMM really want to take the reduced riders per hour numbers that will create? Are you willing to wait in a line that is 25% longer? SFMM management told us at the media shoot that their #1 priority with this ride will be capacity. They will attempt to get the trains to duel as much as possible, but getting as many riders through as quickly as they can is their primary concern. Management knows that dueling really adds to the TC experience, but they also know that people hate waiting in long lines. The lifts are "smart" lifts and can climb at variable speeds, but varying the lift speeds can only do so much. I am really interested to see how often the trains duel once the ride is open and constantly running 3 trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasBaby Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Deleted, accidental double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saweetdude05 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I for one am extremely happy that the park is focusing on capacity more, isn't that one of the top complaints about this park? I'm sure SFMM factored in everything and decided the majority of people would rather experience a full ride rather than sit on a lift hill baking in the California sun waiting for however long it takes for the next train to be dispatched. The green lift is designed to slow to wait for another train, but it is set to continue on as normal if it gets to a sensor which says the blue side cannot catch up. Let's all just be happy that SFMM finally got the long, air time machine that we all wanted, and on top of that, one of the greatest coasters ever built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopThrill182 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Is four train operation definitely out of the question? Is it even possible with the block brake setup? I know the park originally said the fourth would be used as a maintenance rotation train only, but it seems like four trains would make it easier for the ride to duel. I still don't see why trains can't simply stop at the block brakes before the second lift. To those who suggest riders will panic and fear the ride is broken, can't the park simply install some kind of sign / audio announcement identifying the stop as a "staging area" for the second train to catch up? That area is only a few feet off the ground, so I don't see why it should cause anyone any alarm. (It's not like the train would be stopping hundreds of feet in the air.) Of course, slowing the Green lift down to a crawl should work, too. And the idea that the park will forgo dueling in the interest of higher capacity seems a bit of a cop out to me. To build and heavily advertise a dueling coaster only to then--before opening day--abandon the dueling aspect for greater throughput seems a drastic change in position. And it's not like this park is so dedicated to capacity on other attractions (e.g. one train operation on Full Throttle much of the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bf9 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 That is certainly possible, but when the time you're making up isn't 5 or 10 seconds, but likely 25-30 it gets pretty darn cumbersome. Do you really want to spend 90 seconds on a lift? Does SFMM really want to take the reduced riders per hour numbers that will create? Are you willing to wait in a line that is 25% longer? SFMM management told us at the media shoot that their #1 priority with this ride will be capacity. They will attempt to get the trains to duel as much as possible, but getting as many riders through as quickly as they can is their primary concern. Management knows that dueling really adds to the TC experience, but they also know that people hate waiting in long lines. The lifts are "smart" lifts and can climb at variable speeds, but varying the lift speeds can only do so much. I am really interested to see how often the trains duel once the ride is open and constantly running 3 trains. I'm very glad to hear that their priority is capacity and quite frankly If I were in a position of power I'd be on the same page. 50% of the reason I haven't been to SFMM since '07 is their rides have comparatively abysmal capacity generally and I've made one too many duel loading stations in No Limits to know that's inexcusable. And if I could (and did, during busy times) bang out a train every 80 seconds on Desert Storm as the only op in the station if I need to...well...lol. Granted it has one train so people leave their stuff on the exit platform so it's kind of cheating. To make it clear, I am very pleased with what I'm seeing with TC and I will definitely be taking my family this fall, and if the stars align with school MAYBE WCB at SFMM. But man...I hope they figure out the dueling situation. I know it costs, but buy another train or do the pre station retracking if need be because the dueling based on this footage takes this from a "4.3" to a "5" star ride. Still, I am so excited to finally get me some good new-school west coast airtime no matter what! Hasn't existed really before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFMMGeek27 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 At the preview... Only running two trains Orange and Blue. But they racing every other dispatch. So everyone will get to race at least once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire2box Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Is four train operation definitely out of the question? Is it even possible with the block brake setup? I know the park originally said the fourth would be used as a maintenance rotation train only, but it seems like four trains would make it easier for the ride to duel. from what I heard on here from people who went to filming days they are still trying to figure out how to duel/race them with 3 trains and that's without hundreds of general public guests filling the lines. Keeping a 4th one on hand only to be used in case of one trains failure is a good idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYTrojan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 At the preview... Only running two trains Orange and Blue. But they racing every other dispatch. So everyone will get to race at least once. You know what, I think this is an EXCELLENT compromise. If they can work the timing out so that you either race on your first pass through or your second that's perfect by me. That keeps the 90 second window alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike932 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) You know what, I think this is an EXCELLENT compromise. If they can work the timing out so that you either race on your first pass through or your second that's perfect by me. That keeps the 90 second window alive. This could cause a safety issue though. The ride workers will still be pressured to load trains as quickly as possible. But at least the cars are designed not to move unless all bars are down. Also, riders take a long time to stow their loose articles like on YOLO. On Tuesday, they loaded my train in less than 60 seconds, but it made me kind of nervous so I kept rechecking that I was locked in tight. The workers are VERY motivated during the first week of a new ride, but a few weeks from now, they will fall into a slower routine. Somebody should figure out the recent average unload/load time for YOLO since the cars are almost identical. I still think they need to reopen the other side of the station. As a bonus, it would get rid of that ugly makeshift wall. Edited May 21, 2015 by mike932 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPTCOASTER Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 is there videos posted of the presentation from media day? All I'm seeing is povs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike932 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlvr Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 90 seconds is always what i've heard that the dispatch needs to be to duel. the idea that they want to move more people through than duel doesn't make sense. if they can do it in 90, then it will most likely duel, if not then the capacity will be lower obviously. it's not like they think they are going to beat 90 seconds so more guests can enjoy the ride. i think when you think of 90 seconds, alan or the other people involved in designing that probably believed that was a reasonable amount of time. other parks do whip trains out in half that consistently all day. so, i hope magic mountain can figure out a way for it to happen some. but i'm glad i got to experience it multiple times, so much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFMMGeek27 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 TC is down and they just took both trains off the track. Now all 3 are on the transfer. They are claiming that it is a "mino delay" still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbatboy Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 is there videos posted of the presentation from media day? All I'm seeing is povs I watched one yesterday on YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFMMGeek27 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 And one train ops on TC begin! Just put on purple and are testing it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philrad71 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Wow...simply amazing. I (like others) can't believe that I am saying that I can't wait to get back to SFMM again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 So aside from the fact that the ride actually opened at 11 with no one from the rides department in the queue letting us know what was going on or that they didn't use the single rider line, I won't nitpick the operations too much yet. They were trying. Lapbars will definitely become a problem if they don't "break in." Got a ride in the back my first time and the front the second ride...it's definitely a top 10 ride, though I haven't quite decided where on my top 10 it belongs. Great airtime. Top Gun stall is fun, especially with the dueling. The pre-lift section turned out to be pretty pointless. This was my first RMC, so I can't compare it to the others. A couple of other things that I nitpick: -The park directional signs haven't been updated. -For all the great work they did trying to theme the area, the generic food carts they had out today stood out like a sore thumb. Pay a little extra to rewrap them to fit the area. -In the ultimate "SFMM will always still be SFMM" moment, they spent all this money to paint Scream, change the sign, rehab the trains...but didn't bother to clean the rest of the area. The tarp covering the now closed photo booth is caked in a layer of dust, the trash cans are still beat up and dirty, and there are still rips in the vinyl they have along the ride track fence. -Leaving the media day balloons out is pretty tacky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithPlus1 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 First thing, the video Robb poster with Caesar and his daughter is awesome!!! Great footage! Secondly, I don't think enough credit has been given to SFMM for getting this thing done so fast. I can't believe its already opened and we are seeing these sweet POV's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike932 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The pre-lift section turned out to be pretty pointless. That's a good point. The tilting before the lift was fun, but considering they need to get to the lift as soon as possible to race the other car, they should had just made a simple fast pre-lift track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasternate Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Twisted Colossus looks amazing. Can't wait to ride it. There is a chance I can go on June 12; that would be awesome! Great footage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Wow. Came for preview day and the ride is running what looks to be one train. WTF? Thanks Magic Mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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