Knotts: Potential for Greatness

[ed_orangeco_cali]

I'm in awe of Mr. Alvey, who seems to have visited more theme parks and ridden more coasters than humanly possible.

 

Lately there has been a lot of Knott's bashing on these boards, including comments by Mr. Alvey,which are, of course, justifiable. Management at the park is lackluster at best, and the quality of the Knotts visitor experience is very hit or miss.

 

I would submit, however, that if Knott's could whip itself into shape it has the potential to become the premiere thrill park in Southern California, despite the obvious assests of Six Flags Magic Mountain. A couple more coasters, along with an overhaul in customer service, could create a hell of park.

 

Think about this:

 

1. Location and Size: Although SFMM is vast, and its potential for expansion almost limitless, the compact size and layout of Knotts makes it easy to navigate and a lot less exhausting. Hot in the summer, sure, but never as hot as Valencia. Although the drive to SFMM isn't bad from most of the LA basin, Knott's is more easily accessible to more people. Knott's has to be creative about siting new attractions, but this can be a positive.

 

2. Wooden Coaster: SFMM has nothing like Ghostrider, despite their two wooden coasters. I rode Ghoserider this past December and the quality of the ride was much improved over a year earlier. With proper care and feeding this is obviously a world class machine.

 

3. Launch Coaster: To quote this site: Xcelerator "kicks ass". SFMM can't even keep Superman running.

 

4. Classic Coaster: I know that The Great American Revolution (the old name) is the first of its kind, but have you ridden it lately? Ouch. A quick, sweet ride on Montezuma's Revenge is evergreen.

 

6. Drop Tower: Not available at Six Flags. Supreme Scream is a pretty good example of the genre.

 

7. Get Wet Water Ride: Nothing like Perilous Plunge at Six Flags. Not sure if there should be!

 

8. Log Ride / Flume Ride: SFMM has got 'em, but can anyone argue that Knott's has the classic?

 

9. River Raft Ride: Both parks have them and they are similar.

 

10. Shuttle Coaster: Well, Deja Vu is obviously is an amazing machine, but why is it never operating?

 

11. B & M Coasters: Despite the so-so reviews from coaster enthusiasts, Silver Bullet strikes me as a very good coaster experience for the more general public. I wish it packed more punch, but I still enjoy riding it. To me, the best thing about Magic Mountain are the B & Ms, and they are all fun. This is where Knott's needs to make up ground.

 

12. Flat Rides: Knott's has a couple of great new flat rides as well as some older classics. The new machines just need more radical programming.

 

13. Intangibles: If Knott's doesn't squander it, the atmosphere and history of the place can be a tremendous asset. Magic Mountain has zero heritage and no chicken dinners.

 

So....all Knotts needs is just a couple of more really spectacular coasters before enthusiasts will have to come up with more and better excuses for driving to northern LA County.

 

It's easy to speculate on what Knotts needs to seal the deal, coaster wise. Readers of this site would have hundreds of suggestions. I'd like to see a hyper coaster, perhaps similar to Apollo's Chariot . It doesn't have to be the tallest or fastest, just unique to its setting. Then, to counter "X", add something truly outragous, whatever it might be.

 

I remember Knott's when I was a kid. I rode the log ride shortly after it opened and I thought it was terrific, more fun than a lot of the stuff at Disneyland at the time. I'd like to get that feeling again.

[CoasterFanatic]

11. B & M Coasters: Despite the so-so reviews from coaster enthusiasts, Silver Bullet strikes me as a very good coaster experience for the more general public. I wish it packed more punch, but I still enjoy riding it. To me, the best thing about Magic Mountain are the B & Ms, and they are all fun. This is where Knott's needs to make up ground.

 

This is the one area where SFMM definately wins. SFMM has 3 great B&M's and Knotts has one weak one. Edge ... SFMM.

 

Other than that, I would probably prefer Knotts. I enjoy rides like the Calico, Flume, and Train and SFMM offers none of these.

 

Also, I'll take a flatspin, claw, and S&S tower over a round-up, musik express, and 1st gen Intamin fall anyday. Edge .... Knotts.

[Coasterkid20]

I'll come out and say it: I love Knott's, some people on this site live within an hour drive and have the ability to go there a lot, but I don't so the flaws one encounters on a trip there are not over any ride at SFMM three fold. Knott's has less than 1/2 of the coasters that SFMM has and yet it has 2 of my top ten, and 2 strong rides(Silver Bullet and Montezooma's Revenge). SFMM has a bunch of strong rides (Goliath, X, Deja Vu (hey I liked it) Riddler, Batman, maybe Scream! (haven't ridden it)) but none of those can compare to GhostRider or Xcelerator. The main thing that I like Knott's fors is GhostRider, it is an awesome wooden coaster (some don't agree) and Magic Mountain does not have that, and I doubt ever will have that.

[What Now]

I also prefer Knott's to SFMM. I actually live closer to SFMM, but I'm at Knott's more often.

[kraxleRIDAH]

Both parks are on par for me in my book. One has the better rides, the other has the better atmosphere and service. One advantage Magic Mountain has but has never tapped into, or just "let go" is the atmosphere and service part. Knott's will always have a problem with rides because they have an undeniable problem with space. Sure, they are good at shoehorning in rides, but at the expense of removing older attractions and demolishing buildings.

 

Now imagine if Magic Mountain was operated like Knott's and was well kept like Knott's is (neon paint or not). We wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[Jew]

Now imagine if Magic Mountain was operated like Knott's and was well kept like Knott's is (neon paint or not). We wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

Knott's is operated better than Magic Mountain? Both parks suffer from awful operations/management. The only difference to me is that KBF ride operators still get costumes.

[BelizeIt]

^^Wow KraxelRIDAH, there was an 18 month spread between your post and the guy with the Bleeding Anus! (The Moderators will be proud that people do use the Search Query)

 

I imagine that Knotts has enough room for expansion, even without having to remove a preexisting attraction. The Alveys have shown Trip Reports from overseas where Theme Parks have managed to effectively put in many attractions into a confined space.

 

I believe that Knotts problem (As well as Disneyland) is that they have the additional dilemma of having to contend with the "Locals" who are often displeased at the announcement of any large Coaster/Attraction Etc... Mainly because they don't want to see or hear it. (Hence the noise shields on rides like DCA's Maliboomer)

 

Personally, I feel zero sympathy for people who CHOSE to live near a Theme Park, and then complain about the noise or traffic Etc...

[Hercules]

When all else fails, just blame Cedar Fair.

[Electerik]

The problem is most certainly not that Knott's needs more thrill rides!

 

It's that they need more concrete!

 

Seriously, though: KBF used to be my favorite park, but Cedar Fair has really messed it up, both operationally and in terms of park infrastructure and "assets."

[DerekRx]

I don't think a lot of coasters (or even rides) makes for a good park. I think customer service, efficiency, friendly employees who enjoy their job is one of the reasons why my top parks are what they are. The place also needs to have a certain feeling to it, something that makes it unique. I used to think Knotts was one of the nicest parks out there. My opinion didn't change because I went to more and more places, it changed because the park changed. The employees didn't seem as friendly, the little things that set Knotts apart from other parks were removed and replaced with pretty much nothing. The family aspect was starting to be removed in hopes of drawing in more and more of SFMMs clientelle.

 

Maybe its just me, but I seem to have a much better time at parks with famillies and little children than I do at places that act as babysitters for a bunch of teenagers.

 

All Knotts needs is to go back to better operations, friendlier employees, and maybe a little more emphasis on the classic theming and charm that the place used to have, and less on concrete, trash cans, and bright obnoxious colors everywhere. An Intamin hyper would be nice too though

[niiicolaaah]

...and less on concrete, trash cans, and bright obnoxious colors everywhere.

 

That will only happen if CF sells the park.

[socalMAN123]

Personally, I love Knott's. I have never had a bad day there with bad operations or non-friendly employees (mainly, they just didn't talk to me) so I don't see what everyone is complaining about. But, I might have a bad day sometime in the future. Oh yeah, I'm not going there until they fix freakin Xcelerator.

---Brent

[Mr.Six]

Honestly, Knotts isn't a bad park in my mind if you look at the ride selection and most of the staff. Sure they're not quite up to the Disney cast member standard, but higher that most Six Flags' workers. My personal problem I have with Knotts is how great it USE to be. Before Cedar Fair basically turned it into a mini Cedar Point. It had historic value to it, most of the employees were really awesome, it was just special in its own way; and all this without Silver Bullet, Xcelerator, Ghostrider, WindJammer, etc. Sure, Cedar Fair made its coaster count go up, but it took more then it could ever give back. I remember Jew saying a few months back or so, "Who needs history when you have concrete!" And that sums it all up.

_six

[Sir Clinksalot]

Before CF took over Knott's it was my favorite park ... period. Even over Disney. Of course, I hadn't been to alot of other parks at the time, but it was a great place. Great atmosphere, great rides, a park you could spend all day and all night at with no problem.

 

This was even in the days before Ghostrider, Xcelerator, even Jaguar. There were less "Coasters", but the atmosphere and the experience of being there was so great.

 

Now, after 2 or 3 hours (non-haunt) were ready to go.

[ECZenith]

I visited for the first time in May and I didn't understand all the hate. They had a better balance of rides IMO than SFMM (great dark ride, 3 water rides and they actually had GOOD flat rides) KBF definately wins in the theming dept. with the ghost town section and two heavily themed rides.

 

Unfortunately Ghostrider was down when I went so I missed the credit, so I can't comment on how they compare to other socal woodies.

[kraxleRIDAH]

Now imagine if Magic Mountain was operated like Knott's and was well kept like Knott's is (neon paint or not). We wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

Knott's is operated better than Magic Mountain? Both parks suffer from awful operations/management. The only difference to me is that KBF ride operators still get costumes.

 

Did you REALLY just put Knott's on the same level with Magic Mountain in terms of operations and management? Not saying Knott's is top tier, but to say Knott's ISN'T better operated than Magic Mountain is to be kidding yourself.

 

Before CF took over Knott's it was my favorite park ... period. Even over Disney. Of course, I hadn't been to alot of other parks at the time, but it was a great place. Great atmosphere, great rides, a park you could spend all day and all night at with no problem.

 

This was even in the days before Ghostrider, Xcelerator, even Jaguar. There were less "Coasters", but the atmosphere and the experience of being there was so great.

 

Now, after 2 or 3 hours (non-haunt) were ready to go.

 

I completely agree. I spent more time at Knott's when Windjammer was the new attraction than I do now with Silver Bullet as the new ride. The place has gone to shit, in my book.

[Gnome]

Now imagine if Magic Mountain was operated like Knott's and was well kept like Knott's is (neon paint or not). We wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

Knott's is operated better than Magic Mountain? Both parks suffer from awful operations/management. The only difference to me is that KBF ride operators still get costumes.

Wrong! It takes me 30 minutes to get on a ride at knotts with virtually no line where as it takes me at least 1 hour to get on a ride at SFMM with virtually no line.

 

Anyways, my problem with knotts. They take out to much of the good stuff everybody likes having there. Like grass. You used to be able to find grass all around knotts, and just other nice areas to walk through, that's all been turned into cement now! And what about the lake? THey killed it and 2 other rides in the process, imo. I always liked how the the little tug boat and the train went around the lake. I would go on both attractions if they had followed thier original course of plans, but management thought otherwise at some point during constuction of Silver Bullet. This is probably the issue that angers me the most. The next issue would definately be screaming swing. Fun ride, yes, but is it worth $5? MOst definately not. The fact that they even took at the Haunted Shack for vertigo to begin with upsets me. That was a fun attraction that I enjoyed going on from time to time. Why they thought a pay for attraction would be better in its spot, I don't know, but it angers me. Next is thier cement issue. Cement, cement, cement, cement! Why is it so hard to put down some sort of flooring that fits the knotts theme better? You walk down the remaining remnants of the roaring 20's area and you see a nice path themed to a street. Something that parks like disney understand. Do something with your pathway other then have it boring old cement.

 

My only other complain would be ride capacity and thier foods operations. Thier food operation (non-sit down restaurants) is just as poor, if not poorer then SFMM's operations. They're food is subpar and it takes for gosh dang ever to get your food.

 

But with all that said, Knotts does have potential for improvement. They have room for a parking structure, that I'm sure they could build. IF they did that, then that would free up room on all thier overflow lots which could allow for some more expansion, all though it woudn't be anything large. Maybe even an intamin mega coaster? (wishful thinking) But even then, that's not really that important as compared to other apsects. I'd like to see them put in another family attraction very similar to haunted shack, except maybe improved back in its original spot. A brand new dark ride in the KotD building. They need to also make a new story for thier western play. Thier current story is almost as old as I am, and even when I was 4 or 5 when it first came out, I thought it sucked. They could also add in a full time show in the birdcage theater. Maybe an improv show could go there year round? I really liked it when knotts had the petting zoo and the animal show. I thought it was nice, but I doubt that's coming back. (they butchered Camp Snoopy beyon repair, imo) I'd like to see them redo the lake area, just shut it down during the off season and make it how it should have been to begin with. Then put grass where grass can go, and above all improve the service.

 

Now while knotts does have a lot of problems, I will say this though, that it is not that bad of a park. I've been on really good days, and I've also been on bad days. I find, though, that the good days outnumber the bad. Also they sell pepsi products and chicken, what could be better then that? Coke products and chicken? Na uh!!!

 

All Knotts needs is to go back to better operations, friendlier employees, and maybe a little more emphasis on the classic theming and charm that the place used to have, and less on concrete, trash cans, and bright obnoxious colors everywhere. An Intamin hyper would be

Bleh, I forgot to mention. The fact that they use the SAME EXACT FREAKING COLOR SCHEME for thier past few installments (Le Revolution, Silver Bullet, Rip Tide, Perilous Plung Boats) pisses me off.l Especially the perilous plunge boats. What was wrong with the original color scheme?

[Jew]

Did you REALLY just put Knott's on the same level with Magic Mountain in terms of operations and management? Not saying Knott's is top tier, but to say Knott's ISN'T better operated than Magic Mountain is to be kidding yourself.

 

Kidding myself? The pay for both is laughable, the crews suck at both, the employees are treated like crap at both, management is filled with a bunch of people who many feel only got their jobs because of politics at both, both have horrible reputations as employers/can't meet their staffing goals, they both are filled with operators who misuse the PA systems, the clientele sucks at both...

 

The only difference I see is costumes. Well, and KBF is better about keeping clean. But a clean park with a bunch of sh*tty employees doesn't make for an enjoyable day...

[ParkTrips]

I have to say that outside of Tatsu, five-minute dispatches aren't all that common at Magic Mountain, but in my one day at Knott's, it seemed like the norm.

 

[Sir Clinksalot]

Let's just face it ... both parks operations suck ass, although they both do see some good days, or good hours.

 

But I will agree, lately, as a whole, Knott's operations are worse.

[GMAN962]

Well here's the thing: Knott's has really great service and environment. It also has rides for a variety of people, unlike magic mountain.

 

Magic mountain however, has much better rides. They're more forceful, faster, and in my opinion, much better. However, they're service and environment is not very good at all.

 

If I was looking strictly at experience, rather than rides, it would be Knott's. THis is why I think if they do sell magic mountain (which I doubt will happen) they should sell it to buche gardens or cedar fairs. They keep thier parks much more clean, and usually have btter service. I'm not sure if magic mountain is like it is because of bad service, or because of it's location, but I think it's service.

[vjgx]

I believe if Knott's were to add an Intamin hypercoaster or something like Expedition GeForce, it would be great. It could even extend out towards the street like GhostRider does. Also, the service at Knott's was excellent last time I was there -- way above that of SFMM. Sure, it's not perfect, but with some additional rides and focused work on quality, Knott's could get much much better.

[Guy T. Koepp]

I don't get it. I love Knott's. I always have a great time when I'm there. Could be that I have a great time where ever I go. (Cause I'm Awesome! )

 

Knott's never fails to dissapoint. I have always had good experiences with ride opps. The chicken dinner is way freaking good. Haunt Rocks! It's just an overall nice place. I too remember it from when I was young. I loved it then too. It's still a fun place to go. I'm there at least once a month.

 

Pay no attention to Joey. He's just sore that they didn't invite him back to work Haunt. Seems they didn't need any evil midget elves this year.

Besides, he works at USH. And honestly, I haven't gotten a season pass there in over 3 years because I have a miserable time when I go. I hope to God's they don't F up HHN.

[kraxleRIDAH]

Did you REALLY just put Knott's on the same level with Magic Mountain in terms of operations and management? Not saying Knott's is top tier, but to say Knott's ISN'T better operated than Magic Mountain is to be kidding yourself.

 

Kidding myself? The pay for both is laughable, the crews suck at both, the employees are treated like crap at both, management is filled with a bunch of people who many feel only got their jobs because of politics at both, both have horrible reputations as employers/can't meet their staffing goals, they both are filled with operators who misuse the PA systems, the clientele sucks at both...

 

The only difference I see is costumes. Well, and KBF is better about keeping clean. But a clean park with a bunch of sh*tty employees doesn't make for an enjoyable day...

 

I know what it's like to work at Knott's. I worked at the park during the summer of 2004. So I know how the pay sucks, I know what the employees are like, I know! However, you won't find the infectious spiel spitting energetic heads working at Silver Bullet ANYWHERE at Magic Mountain. But I tend to agree on the most part though...the work force employed at both Magic Mountain and Knott's have really mysteriously tanked for the worse over the past decade or so. Where'd the work ethics go? Is it the park's fault? Or is it just that the pool from which they hire their work force is just offering zombie-like duds?

[larrygator]

I had no probelms with operations on my one visit to Knotts and 90% of ride ops were enthusiastic, granted it was a slow day. The next day I went to SFMM and it was also a light day and operations were far from great with ride ops who didn't seem to care. Those trips were in 2004.

 

I'm going back to both next week and I have a feeling I will get the same treatment from both parks.