Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

[tanthonyam]

I agree SFGA is one of the worst parks I know of that has removed so many rides!

[ZeroGravity55]

Really, how much maintenance goes into this ride, than any other ride at the park? Second she is old, of course there will be more upkeep on her especially looking at her hybrid background.

 

Quite a bit of money, considering the ride is 27 years old and has probably uses the same trains all 27 years. Six Flags corporate isn't going to spend the money on new trains, they rather just get rid of it for something new.

 

I mean take Mr. Freeze, that thing has been a money pit since they got that thing, sure its a fun ride but from your stance it is a costly ride to keep upkeep on it. I remember going opening weekend in 2011, Freeze was down for quite a while (days) cause they blew one of its transformers which is part of a modify power supply system because the ride draws so much power.

 

Mr. Freeze is probably tied with Batman as the parks #1 attraction though. It brings them more money than they spend on upkeep. Here's an example, The Voyage at Holiday World is a money pit for the park, but what traditional tracked wooden roller coaster isn't? The thing is, it's their most marketable ride and has gave the park almost the same amount of press that the waterpark has. So essentially, the ride has made them more money than they've spent on it at this point.

 

And going with that knowledge, this park is much better in the way they operate as it sits outside the corporate dog leash.

 

If the park wasn't on the corporate dog leash, they probably wouldn't have gotten a Boomerang this year.

[jk1w]

Mr. Freeze is probably tied with Batman as the parks #1 attraction though. It brings them more money than they spend on upkeep. Here's an example, The Voyage at Holiday World is a money pit for the park, but what traditional tracked wooden roller coaster isn't? The thing is, it's their most marketable ride and has gave the park almost the same amount of press that the waterpark has. So essentially, the ride has made them more money than they've spent on it at this point.

 

But going on from what you told me, Freeze is old (14 years old), there is a two copy's of them out there unlike Voyage which is unique under its own right like Ninja at SFStL. Unlike Ninja though, Voyage is still pretty new, and it is still high on the charts so I can see the cost of justifying upkeep unlike Freeze; and Freeze may be popular to locals but that is about it (sure there is some outside enthusiasm). Ninja under its own right deserves a little love also because of how unique it is to the rest of the world.

 

So what I am getting at all of this is, if the corporate leash was tighter, why spend money, on a old duplicate ride that cost thousands to millions to upkeep rather than getting a brand NEW LIM launched coaster that could actually utilize the whole island and could break new records and draw crowds something that Six Flags Over Texas really doesn't need to worry about.

 

And see this park ain't attached to that leash to tight, this park is allowed a lot of slack away from the others. They keep what they got because the big boys don't allow this park to play and spend its money freely, and also you could look at it this way- with them being the Missouri Coaster Capital, why lose a coaster; cause you know Silver Dollar or Worlds of Fun might catch up to that 9 coaster count while we could get our 10th coaster.

 

Sure they got a "new" coaster this year, but was something cheap that every one has seen and quite old like Ninja, something to shove in are mouths like a bone to keep us quite for a while. So if we can live with a multi copy boomerang, a double Freeze, a copy of Pandemonium plus another copy of Batman; don't we deserve something to call unique? In that category we have Ninja, American Eagle, Boss and American Thunder (you could also count River King if you count the two separate sides different); so three wood and ONE steel (two if you count river king).

[Vonni]

^ American Thunder is a copy too, so Eagle, Boss, and Ninja are the only unique coasters in our park. Also, since we will have Ninja around a while longer (no complaints here) I wish they would paint it red again! It looked so much better red.

[jk1w]

^ American Thunder is a copy too, so Eagle, Boss, and Ninja are the only unique coasters in our park. Also, since we will have Ninja around a while longer (no complaints here) I wish they would paint it red again! It looked so much better red.

 

Haha thanks I didn't know that, what other copy's are there of American Thunder'?

 

I never seen Ninja red, I have only seen it black and white, so that could make it stand out big time; also get rid of the adverts on the side of the train's lol

[PalmTree55]

I'm pretty sure that Thunderbird at Power Park is the

copy.

[vacoaster09]

^ You would be incorrect. American Thunder is the copy! Thunderbird was build before the American copy.

[SteveStL]

Thunderbird is in Finland. So yeah it is a copy but the likelihood of anyone going to Finland is really really low... as if you were to drive to Chicago to ride a Batman clone. In my opinion American Thunder is unique ... to 99.9% of the folks who will ride it, including myself.

 

Ninja probably has the lowest ridership in the Park, coasterwise, it needs to be replaced. Plus I cannot see SFSTL exceeding 10 coasters. We need a Junior coaster as well.

[HWFan]

 

I know of many points in the park where they can move or remove structures and would be able to build things like an RMC coaster or even a B&M dive; which like HWfan said it would be a good spot up next to Batman, but for me just remove the old Sky Way building/Arcade plus move the Joker and bam more room to grow and expand out into that area (which I think is service roads and going back out to the parking lot I think).

The area you are referring to is being saved for Hurricane Harbor expansion, including a possible second entrance to HH.

[jk1w]

 

I know of many points in the park where they can move or remove structures and would be able to build things like an RMC coaster or even a B&M dive; which like HWfan said it would be a good spot up next to Batman, but for me just remove the old Sky Way building/Arcade plus move the Joker and bam more room to grow and expand out into that area (which I think is service roads and going back out to the parking lot I think).

The area you are referring to is being saved for Hurricane Harbor expansion, including a possible second entrance to HH.

 

Really? Eh ok, I aint a fan of water parks, buy hey that is a popular thing for the public.. still would think that would have been a nice area

[Babybuck]

Park visit - 9/2/2013.

 

Took my 2 kids to six flags on Monday. It was I believe our 20th visit this season. The park looked pretty good. No wait for Batman, joker, Ninja. Mine train was closed, because someone got stuck!?!?! Got up to the screaming eagle and wow...40 minute wait. Longest we have waited all year. They were running one train, as well as the american thunder and Mr Freeze. the GP I listened to, were talking about how they do not like coming because the lines are long and them they see only one train being used? I thought the lines were not bad. they were longer than my kids and I are accustom to, but oh well. The issues I had were only a few. I continue to be bothered by some of the guests...WOW, not too high on the darwin ladder, adn how they afford their tickets...

 

All in All another good trip. We will get another 4-5 in this year. Kids love the place...Hell, I love the place.

[Vonni]

^^ Water Parks are not bad, its just our HH is kinda lame. I like Splashin Safari at HW, and Schliterbahn in New Braunfuls TX, sorry if I spelled that wrong lol.

[jk1w]

^^ Water Parks are not bad, its just our HH is kinda lame. I like Splashin Safari at HW, and Schliterbahn in New Braunfuls TX, sorry if I spelled that wrong lol.

 

Yes I know that, I was stating that I in particular dont care for them lol, but yes SFStL water park is a laughing joke compared to what else is around the area. But they are money makers as they draw in local crowds and spend money just to splash in some water.

[Woodie Warrior]

^^ Water Parks are not bad, its just our HH is kinda lame. I like Splashin Safari at HW, and Schliterbahn in New Braunfuls TX, sorry if I spelled that wrong lol.

 

Yes I know that, I was stating that I in particular dont care for them lol, but yes SFStL water park is a laughing joke compared to what else is around the area. But they are money makers as they draw in local crowds and spend money just to splash in some water.

Hurricane Harbor is nowhere near a "laughing joke". It is by far the best water park in St. Louis and anywhere around the area. Sure, Splashin' Safari is better, but if someone in St. Louis wanted to go to a waterpark, Hurricane Harbor is very nice. It has a nice selection of rides and nice themeing, the only thing I think the waterpark should get is a water coaster.

[prozach626]

So he wants something that's fast and intense like Batman? How about a brand new RMC woodie!

 

Yeah, because we really need a 4th wooden roller coaster...

 

^ Agreed. There is tons of room for our park to grow without having to remove anything. Now, with that being said I know everything cant last forever, but removing something that can still operate safely, and serves a purpose is not necessary.

 

Operating. Costs.

 

 

I know I saw someone give an argument on the land and the hilliness/rocky structure of the park in areas could be a problem, but like that person said they just used some good old tnt and kept going. The park owns 497 acres but only operates on 240 acres, so that is plenty of room, I suppose the rest is of the acreage is in the back where it gets more hilly/rockier.

 

Operating. Costs.

 

 

Mr. Freeze is probably tied with Batman as the parks #1 attraction though. It brings them more money than they spend on upkeep. Here's an example, The Voyage at Holiday World is a money pit for the park, but what traditional tracked wooden roller coaster isn't? The thing is, it's their most marketable ride and has gave the park almost the same amount of press that the waterpark has. So essentially, the ride has made them more money than they've spent on it at this point.

 

But going on from what you told me, Freeze is old (14 years old), there is a two copy's of them out there unlike Voyage which is unique under its own right like Ninja at SFStL. Unlike Ninja though, Voyage is still pretty new, and it is still high on the charts so I can see the cost of justifying upkeep unlike Freeze; and Freeze may be popular to locals but that is about it (sure there is some outside enthusiasm). Ninja under its own right deserves a little love also because of how unique it is to the rest of the world.

 

So what I am getting at all of this is, if the corporate leash was tighter, why spend money, on a old duplicate ride that cost thousands to millions to upkeep rather than getting a brand NEW LIM launched coaster that could actually utilize the whole island and could break new records and draw crowds something that Six Flags Over Texas really doesn't need to worry about.

 

And see this park ain't attached to that leash to tight, this park is allowed a lot of slack away from the others. They keep what they got because the big boys don't allow this park to play and spend its money freely, and also you could look at it this way- with them being the Missouri Coaster Capital, why lose a coaster; cause you know Silver Dollar or Worlds of Fun might catch up to that 9 coaster count while we could get our 10th coaster.

 

Sure they got a "new" coaster this year, but was something cheap that every one has seen and quite old like Ninja, something to shove in are mouths like a bone to keep us quite for a while. So if we can live with a multi copy boomerang, a double Freeze, a copy of Pandemonium plus another copy of Batman; don't we deserve something to call unique? In that category we have Ninja, American Eagle, Boss and American Thunder (you could also count River King if you count the two separate sides different); so three wood and ONE steel (two if you count river king).

 

OK, get over it. Just because YOU like the ninja, that doesn't mean that it's a popular ride. Unique? Every park I go to has a vekoma or arrow head banger. I've probably ridden at least a dozen of them. These rides all have one thing in common: They are all walk on's. These rides are out dated and painful. They just aren't as exciting as the new attractions. Freeze DOES draw crowds. No one comes to Six Flags St. Louis to ride the Ninja.

 

Also, you can't just endlessly expand without increasing your operating costs. (maintenance, staff, electricity, etc) The park has no need to expand. We're at the point where we replace older attractions with newer attractions. It's smart from an economic standpoint.

[prozach626]

I continue to be bothered by some of the guests...WOW, not too high on the darwin ladder, and how they afford their tickets...

 

Haha! Have you ever been to Holiday World? It's even worse. Scary worse.

 

^^ Water Parks are not bad, its just our HH is kinda lame. I like Splashin Safari at HW, and Schliterbahn in New Braunfuls TX, sorry if I spelled that wrong lol.

 

Yes I know that, I was stating that I in particular dont care for them lol, but yes SFStL water park is a laughing joke compared to what else is around the area. But they are money makers as they draw in local crowds and spend money just to splash in some water.

 

A laughing joke? I don't really care for water parks either, but HH is not a laughing joke. They have a decent selection of slides. Have you ever been to Ocean's of Fun? That place is a dump. How many more parks are in the area?! Swing around fun town? Raging Rivers? Yes... HH really blows compared to those...

 

You can compare the water park to Splashin Safari,which is three hours away, but HW has a 3rd of the roller coasters. Their main focus has become the water park, as of lately.

[jk1w]

A laughing joke? I don't really care for water parks either, but HH is not a laughing joke. They have a decent selection of slides. Have you ever been to Ocean's of Fun? That place is a dump. How many more parks are in the area?! Swing around fun town? Raging Rivers? Yes... HH really blows compared to those...

 

You can compare the water park to Splashin Safari,which is three hours away, but HW has a 3rd of the roller coasters. Their main focus has become the water park, as of lately.

 

Yes I am comparing the water park to HW, just because it is close to Saint Louis, I don't go to water parks I have never stepped inside of one I just compare what they got vs other parks; I heard though that Silver Dollar's water park is supposed to be good.

 

And yes sadly Holiday World is becoming an over sized water park, with no real positive future for the dry park. Hopefully when Kentucky Kingdom opens up, they take some of there vibe away, as Hart plans to revival HW in the water park section.

 

So he wants something that's fast and intense like Batman? How about a brand new RMC woodie!

 

Yeah, because we really need a 4th wooden roller coaster...

 

Thank you! lol

 

all ninja conversation

Yeah I get it that Ninja ain't loved, yes I know that Ninja ain't the draw to the park, but for a lot of people i.e. general public it is a great side dish to park whether it is painful or not.

 

Freeze DOES draw crowds

 

Yes it does, but the point I was getting is the operating cost i.e. upkeep worth it when they can sell the ride make some profit off of it and get a new LIM launched coaster, or even have a dive coaster squeezed on that island, so that we can draw BIGGER crowds to the park plus make the park more money and might get some more normal esqe love from Six Flags. It must cost thousands to millions to keep that thing running i.e power, maintenance, wear and tear, the power station outside blowing thousand dollar transformers lol

[ZeroGravity55]

Yeah, because we really need a 4th wooden roller coaster...

 

Not now, but after a Boss Rehab. Boss would become a steel coaster, and the park would only have 2 wooden coasters. Plus even though these RMC's are wooden coasters, they have elements you find on a steel coaster,they're smooth like a steel coaster, have little maintenance, and are relatively cheap compared to steel coasters. They're great investments and I could see Six Flags corporate putting them in multiple parks.

[The Westate]

Looks like all is in place for me to get an afternoon at the park on the 15th.

 

Becasuse flights can go weird and whatnot, I'm going to get my ticket at the park. Are there any local coupons I could pick up?

[StLCPfan]

There's a $10 off Burger King coupon right now, but if you go to the Six Flags website at least 3 days before your visit and enter the promo code BKSTL you can get $13 off up to 4 one-day tickets.

[G$ Kurt]

For the record American Thunder is also a clone (I believe it's older sister is somewhere in Europe) Boss and Screaming Eagle are the only truly original rides in park. OK techincally RK is unique but it's just another Arrow mine ride, same with ninja. Not to hate on either of those rides just saying once you've ridden one mine/Arrkoma looper you've ridden them all.

 

ANYWAYS my point being is that it would be great to see this park get a brand new coaster with a unique layout.

 

 

Here's how parks evaluate a rides worth. They take all of the costs, maintenance, labor, electric, ect. They then take that number and divide it by its turnstile count. This makes both capacity and popularity a factor, not just a straight up dollar amount. This gives the park a dollar amount per guest that rode. It's this number that they judge a rides value from, so as you can see its much more complicated then "freeze costs a lot to run so they should get rid of it". Freezes cost per guest amount is likely to be at least at or below ninjas, due to ninjas low ridership numbers.

 

Just saying

[ZeroGravity55]

Here's how parks evaluate a rides worth. They take all of the costs, maintenance, labor, electric, ect. They then take that number and divide it by its turnstile count. This makes both capacity and popularity a factor, not just a straight up dollar amount. This gives the park a dollar amount per guest that rode. It's this number that they judge a rides value from, so as you can see its much more complicated then "freeze costs a lot to run so they should get rid of it". Freezes cost per guest amount is likely to be at least at or below ninjas, due to ninjas low ridership numbers.

 

Also, you can't just endlessly expand without increasing your operating costs. (maintenance, staff, electricity, etc) The park has no need to expand. We're at the point where we replace older attractions with newer attractions. It's smart from an economic standpoint.

 

Both of these points are exactly why Ninja will be gone in the next 5 years. Hopefully corporate will give them something that is unique and will bring in big crowds to replace Ninja.

[prozach626]

 

Yes it does, but the point I was getting is the operating cost i.e. upkeep worth it when they can sell the ride make some profit off of it and get a new LIM launched coaster, or even have a dive coaster squeezed on that island, so that we can draw BIGGER crowds to the park plus make the park more money and might get some more normal esqe love from Six Flags. It must cost thousands to millions to keep that thing running i.e power, maintenance, wear and tear, the power station outside blowing thousand dollar transformers lol

 

What fantasy figures are you basing this on?

 

Yeah, because we really need a 4th wooden roller coaster...

 

Not now, but after a Boss Rehab. Boss would become a steel coaster, and the park would only have 2 wooden coasters. Plus even though these RMC's are wooden coasters, they have elements you find on a steel coaster,they're smooth like a steel coaster, have little maintenance, and are relatively cheap compared to steel coasters. They're great investments and I could see Six Flags corporate putting them in multiple parks.

 

To the GP, the Boss will always be a wooden coaster. Steel rails or not. I'd rather see more diversity in the park than to add more wood.

 

 

For the record American Thunder is also a clone (I believe it's older sister is somewhere in Europe) Boss and Screaming Eagle are the only truly original rides in park.

 

It's a clone, but who is going to visit Finland to ride Thunderbird???

 

OK techincally RK is unique but it's just another Arrow mine ride, same with ninja. Not to hate on either of those rides just saying once you've ridden one mine/Arrkoma looper you've ridden them all.

 

I agree. They had their time, but that time has come and gone. The park would still have the mule-go-round, if it were kept on the "expansion vs upgraded replacement" strategy. Basically, it would be useless.

[jk1w]

What fantasy figures are you basing this on?

 

Nothing lol, I am just going on how much I hear these parts are to replace, like a new set of LIMS they gotta be in the thousands region- new wheels probably in the hundreds range- transformers easily a thousand dollars or more.. etc.

 

It's a clone, but who is going to visit Finland to ride Thunderbird???

 

Exactly

[SteveStL]

The Bottom Line is STL needs new Steel desperately. It has to be significant, not necessarily a Record Breaker, but something large with a complex layout. Just as simple as that.