The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[Medusa1861]

In your scenario. Of course Intamin isn't liable. But Intamin has to PROVE that the new restraints did it OR Knotts has to prove that the restraints didn't cause any error. In the case of this accident. In the case of the actual accident. I don't think any modifications to the restraint system would make them not liable. As the problems all had nothing to do with the restraint system. As for your electronic idea. I'm actually interested in learning about that. Because I'm wondering if, by breaking the tape it says to the manufacture that you attempted to do something to the inside. But i'm not so sure they are off the hook. I think the consumer might have to prove that nothing he/she did caused the problem. which of course is more work to do than the piece of machinery is even worth.

But I think we got the point across anyways. That isn't as simple as just "You did something to the ride and as a result this company has 100% no liability even if modification was perfect"

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^I completely get what you're trying to say, and not that Im trying to prove you wrong. It's just that when on a larger scale of say, public safety, companies are more apt to protect themselves legally and publically. If something were to go wrong with modifications that a park makes, (Think Ca. Screamin') most parks find it saves them a headache of being saved the blame.

[Rollerman87]

So, after really thinking about the trains, I too can see the OTSRs coming. I've heard the entire Red train has been pretty well destroyed. There might be a chance of rehabbing, but I'm talking replacement. If Red train has to be reaplced, it would be a considerable penny for Intamin to build another Rocket coaster with lapbars, for that would mean having to dig up the old plans, or completely redesign the lapbar system again. Essentailly, they'd be building a totally custom train for KBF. Big bucks. On the other hand, they build us the OTSR trains, the overall cost for one would be less, then again, how weird would it look to have one train with OTSRs and one with lapbars? Plus, that'd be two different procedures the ark would have to worry about for a single ride.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^Then again, they could just not replace the train and just have purple run all by its lonesome...

[Calicoasters]

^Yeah can't wait for 1 train summer operations. I don't think they need to completely replace the red train because I can't imagine the damage done to train being unrepairable.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

I agree Cody, I think the casing was the only thing damaged on the train itself (from the cable piercing through). I wouldn't think it would be to much of a hassle to get a new casing for the train. Pretty much a minor problem in the scope of things.

[Calicoasters]

^Especially since they use that same casing on other rocket coasters. For the time being we should be able borrow two of Top Thrill Dragster's trains, they won't be needing them for a while.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

What about the Wacky Soap Box racer casings!!! They gotta be lying around Knott's somewhere... That's a nostalgic treasure we should bring back in these muggy Cedar Fair times!

[themeparkman25]

^^TTD was made to run in 6 train operation right? But only rarely does it go to 6, meaning there is an extra training sitting on the storage track for a majority of the season. Could you just take that, give it a little cosmetic work, ship it to Cali and move on? There would be very little cost that way and is just utilizing capital already owned.

[Calicoasters]

^I wasn't saying take a dragster train as a permanent solution... and I think Dragster needs all 6 trains, outside of the off season.

 

Taking one train would be weird because having both an Xcelerator train and a Dragster train on track would look weird (even to the GP.) It would be very confusing to guest having different train capacities, I do however really like Dragster's front car because it only has one row. Most people waiting in line for front don't want to board the second row!

[socalMAN123]

^ I agree, it always bugged me that the waiting for the second row is contained in the same line as the front row. I think they should split the two up, maybe merge the second row as part of Car 2? Not saying physically meld it together, that's impossible, but just the queuing for the second row be part of the queuing for rows 3 and 4.

---Brent

[Rollerman87]

I'm just curious where everyone is getting their info from. Are they really making that much speculation off the vid? Because that doesn't show how bad the damage is. What if the cable ran along the bottom and tore up the undersides? What if that seat moving was an indication of that? But again, I'd love to see how people fully know this is purely cosmetic damage. Nobody knows what shape that train is in right now, not even the ROs who work on tht ride.

[Mechanic]

One would think that whatever caused such significant damage to the brake fins would have also caused some degree of damage to the underside of the train. Whether or not that damage is repairable isn't something any of us not directly involved in assessing the damage is likely to know.

[Dietcokevan]

^^Check a few pages back.

 

The TTD train idea might work, but are TTD's trains long or short enough?

[Tmcdllr]

^Yeah can't wait for 1 train summer operations. I don't think they need to completely replace the red train because I can't imagine the damage done to train being unrepairable.

 

Agreed. And, if the damage was isolated to the first car I see no need to replace the entire train, that would not make sense.

[fpsphil]

The train cars are made of steel, I really don't think they could have been thy heavily damaged. Remeber the train itself weighs a couple tons I believe, it is not light weight by any means. The main undercar damage that I see having happen is the brake fins that are on the train wing bent severly out of shape and thus explaining the bent fins closer to the station. Also almost every fin when I saw it had either a scratch mark or a small bend in the front corner which I would assume to be from a brake fin on the underside of the car being out of alignment.

 

And itamin can always build another lapbar train, remeber xcelerator is their test bed for the rocket coaster. They may have another lapbar train or car laying around somewhere from testing the concept of hydraulic launch, and I think stealth at thorpe has lapbar if I'm not mistaken

 

edit: stealth does have ostr

[CorkscrewFoley]

^^Check a few pages back.

 

The TTD train idea might work, but are TTD's trains long or short enough?

 

Actually, I think they are about the same size, it's just the nose cone on the front car that makes it appear longer.

[Calicoasters]

And itamin can always build another lapbar train, remeber xcelerator is their test bed for the rocket coaster. They may have another lapbar train or car laying around somewhere from testing the concept of hydraulic launch, and I think stealth at thorpe has lapbar if I'm not mistaken

 

edit: stealth does have ostr

 

The only lap bar rocket coasters are Xcelerator and Top Thrill Dragster. The whole reason the restraint issue came is because Bolliger&Mabillard mentioned that Intamin discontinued the lap bar rocket coaster trains. Intamin does still use the T-Bar restraints though, so I can't imagine it being too much of a hassle to get new trains.

[Tmcdllr]

I believe the brakes consist of fins on the track and large permanent magnets under the train which don't bend easily if at all. The damage to the fins on the track was likely caused by the snapped cable directly or indirectly, causing the train to be jarred out of alignment with the brake fins. It's also possible a piece of the cable or other metal broke off and stuck to the permanent magnets in between where the brake fin would run, causing damage.

[fpsphil]

ocresort.freedomblogging.com/2009/10/05/knotts-ride-may-be-closed-for-months/20523/

[rawrtotheargh]

I'm sorry but that amusementsafety.org webiste that is linked in that article is total BS. They way they phrase the whole thing it makes it seem like everyone should protest Intamin as if their rides are unsafe not taking into account if the park was at fault instead of the manufacturer.

[ginzo]

^ASO is a big joke anyway. They deal mostly in fear mongering and do nothing to actually improve safety.

[CorkscrewFoley]

No kidding, the Superman accident at darien Lake was incorrect... some goof managed to get out of the lapbar and fell--he wasn't thrown from the ride...

[deano]

Hey guys,

 

Could anyone out there please tell me if Ghostrider is open yet? I cant find any new info on the Knott's website and as it still says Xcellerator is open, I dont trust it.

 

Thank you.

[Rusty Nail]

Yes Ghostrider is open

 

Ride closure list can be seen here.

http://www.knotts.com/public/visit/schedule/index.cfm